Why does Karan mock gay?

MOTHERHOOD thumbnail
Posted: 7 years ago
#1
He made fun of gays in KHNH and Dostana. He is a well known film maker. He has the chance to make gay people look like normal people in his films. Was he taught in childhood to hate himself for his sexual identity. Does he feel guilty about it?

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Maraka_Musso89 thumbnail
9th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail + 2
Posted: 7 years ago
#2
This is called comedy. It wasn't offensive imo.
Maybe I'll change my mind if I were to watch these movies again but I wasn't particularly shocked.

Athe least he aknowledge gay people exist. I thought the next step would be to show more gay people in classical roles like second lead but alas it didn't evolve that way.
ajaajaa thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#3

Karan perpetuates stereotypes under the guise of representation in his films.
In his films LGBT will shown be in a negative stereotype vs religious positive stereotype (aka KKHH).
In an unsuitable boy, he basically justifies this by saying he's bringing representation to a mainstream audience. However, if he's pushing caricature is it worth it?

Kapoor & Sons has fantastic LGBT representation far better than the usual nonsense Shetty& Farah Khan use for laughs.

Until then we have to fight Section 377 & hopefully some forward thinking filmmakers can humanize LGBT people (Aligarh, Parched, Fire etc) for Indians where Johar fails too.
sherlockthor thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#4
I still don't understand why sexuality is even discusses.
Its like majority people like apples, and then suddenly if there couple of people who don't like apples and like Oranges , then they are put behind bars or something..

I mean is it a religious thing, or psychological thing...I mean , is anyone getting hurt? No..! THen how is this punishable..!

WHat is the reasoning behind homosexuality being considered a crime!
Mira25 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#5
Why...because karan makes pretentious films. Yes, he might have undergone humiliation for his sexual preferences, but it doesn't give him the right to project gay relationships in poor light and spread wrong notions about them in the society.

Bollywood movies generally are insensitive towards homosexuals and transgenders. They are made caricatures. One thing common in b/w is its penchant to mock the LGBTQ community with constant stereotypes. They are either shown as effiminate or a fashion designer 😆. Other members of the community are conveniently ignored.

Dostana in the name of comedy mocked the brotherhood/friendship and tackled homophobia in a crude way. The male-to-male flirting was distasteful. In kal ho na ho the maid fainted every time she saw the 2 friends together thinking that they were gay. Another stereotypical principal character in SOTY.

But with time, we got films like fire, my brother nikil, aligarh etc. As long as b/w demonstrates that it's ok to harass and make fun of LGBTQ community and address the queer people with its forced stereotypes film makers will give the same treatment to such characters. But things must change.
Mira25 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: ajaajaa


Karan perpetuates stereotypes under the guise of representation in his films.

In his films LGBT will shown be in a negative stereotype vs religious positive stereotype (aka KKHH).
In an unsuitable boy, he basically justifies this by saying he's bringing representation to a mainstream audience. However, if he's pushing caricature is it worth it?

Kapoor & Sons has fantastic LGBT representation far better than the usual nonsense Shetty& Farah Khan use for laughs.

Until then we have to fight Section 377 & hopefully some forward thinking filmmakers can humanize LGBT people (Aligarh, Parched, Fire etc) for Indians where Johar fails too.



I totally forgot about kapoor and sons. It was a fine representation of homosexuality. Irony - KJO production 😆. Fawad's sexual orientation was not the main story like say aligarh, it was just a subplot. Even then it was handled with utmost sensitivity. He was not made a caricature. He was not labelled gay or homosexual by any one and his mom (his bro too) understood and accepted in the end. It was shown in a subtle manner and his character throughout was showcased in the most human way.
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#7
The gay humor in Kal Ho Na Ho was adorable. I found Dostana hilarious, but the stereotypes were problematic.
I don't think Karan Johar intends to mock gay people. I never felt that with any of his movies. Humor can sometimes be the best way to make people open up to an idea. When someone laughs with characters on screen and embraces their mistaken chemistry, it primes their brain to be more open to the idea when faced with in reality. It doesn't miraculously fix homophobia or change perceptions, but it gently primes the brain for a change.

Look at the history of homosexuality or even other cultures and races in Hollywood. It has come a long way from laughing at them to laughing with them to embracing their reality.

Another technique he uses is self-deprecation. Have people heard of the movie "But I'm a Cheerleader"? It tops many queer film lists. It is an absurd, over the top film that indulges in heightened stereotypes and all amounts of ridiculousness. Yet, it has a legendary status in queer culture for what it accomplishes. It breaks stereotypes by playing to them.

Anyway, Karan's execution lacks finesse. He hybridizes with too much desi melodrama. He does not have many out actors or writers whose resources he can tap into. Hence, it comes across as shoddy and almost disparaging.

IMO, Karan is very comfortable about his sexuality and doesn't experience self-hate. But just how women would rather be called scientist, doctor or engineer rather than female scientist, doctor, or engineer - he wants to be known as filmmaker rather than gay filmmaker. Also due to the Indian society, he prefers privacy and space when it comes to personal life.
altgr thumbnail
Posted: 7 years ago
#8
Kapoor and sons, His film in Bombay Talkies were good.
Mira25 thumbnail
7th Anniversary Thumbnail Navigator Thumbnail
Posted: 7 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

The gay humor in Kal Ho Na Ho was adorable. I found Dostana hilarious, but the stereotypes were problematic.

I don't think Karan Johar intends to mock gay people. I never felt that with any of his movies. Humor can sometimes be the best way to make people open up to an idea. When someone laughs with characters on screen and embraces their mistaken chemistry, it primes their brain to be more open to the idea when faced with in reality. It doesn't miraculously fix homophobia or change perceptions, but it gently primes the brain for a change.

Look at the history of homosexuality or even other cultures and races in Hollywood. It has come a long way from laughing at them to laughing with them to embracing their reality.

Another technique he uses is self-deprecation. Have people heard of the movie "But I'm a Cheerleader"? It tops many queer film lists. It is an absurd, over the top film that indulges in heightened stereotypes and all amounts of ridiculousness. Yet, it has a legendary status in queer culture for what it accomplishes. It breaks stereotypes by playing to them.

Anyway, Karan's execution lacks finesse. He hybridizes with too much desi melodrama. He does not have many out actors or writers whose resources he can tap into. Hence, it comes across as shoddy and almost disparaging.

IMO, Karan is very comfortable about his sexuality and doesn't experience self-hate. But just how women would rather be called scientist, doctor or engineer rather than female scientist, doctor, or engineer - he wants to be known as filmmaker rather than gay filmmaker. Also due to the Indian society, he prefers privacy and space when it comes to personal life.



I totally got your POV, but beg to differ regarding the representation of LGBT in movies. Also agree it's all a matter of perception and conception of things 😛.


We often blame cinema for the social ills because there is a large section that eat and breathe films. The average cine goer, in many cases not only believes but also puts to practice what his screen idols doing on screen, be it harassing a girl, stalking her, making a comedy spectacle of gay men etc. I believe they will also try to emulate the homophobia that's being taught in movies.

The films that make attempts to debunking the myths associated with homosexuality are all small, niche films which don't reach larger audience and don't gain commercially. The big mainstream films are not clearly showcasing that homosexuals are not any different from normal people and they just have different preferences.

Gay characters are used for comical relief. They are ridiculed even in high strata of society (page 3). In Dostana Abi & John pretended to be gays to woo PC was done in a childish and distasteful way. Remember the horror tune that plays every time the maid appeared on screen in KHNH. In SOTY rishi, from pink tyes to multicolour umbrellas reduced to an archetype was a threat to marriages. These are all the common representations of LGBT - being comic is being gay, being hijra is being gay, being queer is gay etc. General audience don't get these stereotypes, on the contrary think that they represent the reality.
serendipity_10 thumbnail
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Posted: 7 years ago
#10
I think times have changed. He wouldn't use that kinda humor anymore. At that time it was the norm to mock gay people, eunuchs and the like. And let's not forget that we as an audience enjoyed those movies and gave them their hit status.
Today things are different. I'm not the biggest movie buff but there were and heck, still are many movies that mock the LGBT community.

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