About Patta and Chand Kanwar... - Page 3

Originally posted by: Abhishek_King

Whoa!Thanks for this detailed info...😛

Now,I'm really curious to know if Laskhmibai's funeral can be called Jauhar? Or Jauhar is only related to the death of a wife for her chastity after defeat of his husband from any outer invasion?

I am asking this because as you pointed out that Jauhar means the burning of women in the holy pyre for remaining chaste till the death and in Lakshmibai's case,it was something like that only. As,after her fall in the war,the kind warriors of her side took the queen in some cottage and set it on fire so that the English could not get her body or indirectly,we say they did this to assure,she remain pure till her death. It will be kind if someone will answer this to me!😳

P.S.: Sorry,if I sound out of the topic,but I really want to know this. :)

Welcome buddy. :)

The case of Rani Lakshmi Bai can NOT be called Jauhar, as it was different from the following conditions which happen during Jauhar..::..

1. Jauhar happens amidst Vedic Chants.
2. It happens at night.
3. It happens BEFORE the end of lives of the husbands.
4. It is a Mass-Immolation practice.
5. It is done after the ladies dress up well.

PS : The TM's topic is about Patta, hence i won't be continuing about Jauhar here. You can continue in PM, in case required. 😊

Originally posted by: history_geek

Welcome buddy. :)

The case of Rani Lakshmi Bai can NOT be called Jauhar, as it was different from the following conditions which happen during Jauhar..::..

1. Jauhar happens amidst Vedic Chants.
2. It happens at night.
3. It happens BEFORE the end of lives of the husbands.
4. It is a Mass-Immolation practice.
5. It is done after the ladies dress up well.

PS : The TM's topic is about Patta, hence i won't be continuing about Jauhar here. You can continue in PM, in case required. 😊

Oh!Thanks for clearing the confusion.😊

Is the names of Patta's wives ever mentioned in history? Wasn't he only 16-17 when he died? He must have gotten married very early to have more than one wife.

Originally posted by: erikalui

When I saw about 50 woman jumping in the fire, I had goosebumps all over and just had nothing to say. How can this tradition save respect of the husband? 😭

Let it be as if I say anything more, I may offended some one

Originally posted by: shipreeta

I think you people are misunderstanding the tradition. It is not for saving husbands respect, but own honour. We know very well that any winner of the war in those days claimed their right over the women of the defeated land. The Rajput ladies did not want to become concubines of the winning rulers or the sex slaves so they preferred death over such humiliation. This is a very brave practice and not and wrong one like Sati.

Jauhar was done by royal women folk to save themselves from getting defiled by enemy forces. In the traditional Indian warfare, enemy king when victorious would not massacre civilians and defile the women folk ( royal and civilians ) alike and enslave the kids. The defeated king and his family would be banished or taken prisoners and his subjects would become the victorious king's subjects. There were rules of warfare guided by dharma. However, the invaders did not practice such ethical practices during war. The islamic invaders, especially were ruthless and barbaric. Defeating the king would not suffice for them but collecting war booty was also important and sadly women and kids formed war booty for them. The women and kids were taken as sex slaves and the grown up males ( warriors and civilians ) were massacred. Bin Qasim, Ghazni, Ghori, Khilji, Lodhi, Mughals all of them plundered the 'infidel' women in India and killed the male infidels. Rajputs knew the barbaric ways these invaders would deal their women with, so the ladies would immolate themselves instead of getting captured as a sex slave in case the defeat was imminent.

Originally posted by: Sweet_Krishna

Jauhar was done by royal women folk to save themselves from getting defiled by enemy forces. In the traditional Indian warfare, enemy king when victorious would not massacre civilians and defile the women folk ( royal and civilians ) alike and enslave the kids. The defeated king and his family would be banished or taken prisoners and his subjects would become the victorious king's subjects. There were rules of warfare guided by dharma. However, the invaders did not practice such ethical practices during war. The islamic invaders, especially were ruthless and barbaric. Defeating the king would not suffice for them but collecting war booty was also important and sadly women and kids formed war booty for them. The women and kids were taken as sex slaves and the grown up males ( warriors and civilians ) were massacred. Bin Qasim, Ghazni, Ghori, Khilji, Lodhi, Mughals all of them plundered the 'infidel' women in India and killed the male infidels. Rajputs knew the barbaric ways these invaders would deal their women with, so the ladies would immolate themselves instead of getting captured as a sex slave in case the defeat was imminent.

i don't know its going to be chand kanwar or not but as per history pattas newly young wife did jauhar too.

Originally posted by: shipreeta

Exactly.This is strength and vigor that only a lady can show. I have read that even the Sati Pratha was in its realm during the medieval periods. This was probably done as a widowed woman during that time was hugely vulnerable under the cruel rulers and his officials.

In ancient India we find only a few examples of Sati who are prayed and worshiped. If Sati was such a common practice then these woman would not have held such high positions after her death.

Also we do have many examples of widows in the country who were highly dignified ladies. (Latest being Rajya Shree Vardhan, the sister of Harsha Vardhan, who ruled the country along with her brother)

The term 'Sati' pratha itself is misguiding. Devi Sati immolated herself by yogic powers out of anger, embarrassment and guilt since she did not heed her husband's advice and trusted her father more and went uninvited to the yajna. Her father insulted Shiva and her and she then committed suicide. 'Sati' practised by widows can therefore be no way the same. In ancient times, spouses would kill themselves if the other partner died because they could not bear separation and would like to join their dead spouse in the other world. That was voluntary and purely out of love and attachment to each other.
Dashrath's wives , Satyavati, Vichitraveerya's wives, Kurukshetra war widows did not commit suicide nor they were forced. It is not even mentioned in Vedas. Maybe down the line, it crept in in order to get rid of responsibility of widows or widows themselves started doing it in order to save their chastity. The islamic period in India definitely was no good for women folk so it became the norm . But I specially find it happening in Bengal and Rajasthan in those days.