Gauri Vs Professional Doctors - Page 2

Originally posted by: natasha-remix

i agree with your post.

i am an indian doctor.

i spent over 10 lac rupees for my education just to get thru with my mbbs degree. WHY?

because of reservation i had to take up seat in a private medical college. my parents took loans and payed my fee.

now after just MBBS-- the pay i will get in mumbai to join any hospital is just Rs-18000/- per month. (BEST Opportunities) or even less!! (getting job is difficult)

during MBBS===there have been numerous instances where as an intern i have been on duty for more than 48 hours at a stretch (sometimes having the time to eat just one meal in the day ---- and this would happen atleast once every week!!) just at the age of 22-23... how many 22-23 year olds in MBA/engineering or other fields have to do that??? why are there NO RULES to regulate working standards for doctors while there are some guidelines for other professions???? Residents have it even worse.. i've seen residents in wards from 8 am in the morning-- first admitting then evaluating.. and managing patients till 5 am in the morning.. and then reporting for duty with grand rounds etc again at 8 am... 3 HOURS OF SLEEP?? SO MUCH STRESS--- AND YOU ARE DEALING WITH HUMAN LIFE---- what kind of work standard is that?????

if i go for MD-- i will spend atleast 1 more year preparing for my enterance.. and there too due to a lack of seats.. it willl be difficult...

when i do get in.. it will be another 3 years before i finish my MD..

during MD my stipend will be Rs-3000 to Rs-5000 per month! IS THIS A JOKE?

IN WHICH OTHER PROFESSION DO YOU GET PAYED ONLY SO MUCH THAT TOO WITH A MASTERS DEGREE?

i have spent 6 years in medical college + 1 year preparing for PG + 3 years of MD == atleast 10 years!!

so by the age of 28.. i might get a job!! and notice the word MIGHT

(currently in delhi and mumbai and any city there are very few positions open for people with just MD medicine.

if you have done MD medicine.. you need to super specialize)

so at the age of 28 i will get my first salary... how much will that be???

by the time i have savings or i can think of being independent... i will be 30+

so when should i concentrate on my personal life?? marriage, family, vacation, parents, siblings??

but even then relentlessly we work.. every day and every night...

and yet baring criticism.. NON STOP and abuses from the general public.. due to a select few people that have some kind of ill conduct...

NO WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD-- do doctors have such bad returns.

IN USA -- there is an excess of PG seats .. which foreign students can apply to. every year about 10,000 foreign students get in on MERIT! - and there are working laws for the limit to the number of hours you can work in a week or in a day!

if india has an EXCESS of workforce.--- why arent there better laws or solutions to employ them or organize them in a proper manner??

the starting pay for a resident is about 4000$ ---- convert that into indian currency and see how much that is!! even in $$ and living there.. it is enough to support a family of 2- rent an apartment -- and own a car!

the amount of MBBS doctors our country generates is far in excess of the PG seats available.

when the govt knows that there are NO jobs available. for just mbbs doctors... WHY ARE THEY FURTHUR LIMITING PG SEATS? WHY ARE THEY PLAYING WITH OUT FUTURES?

it is very easy to be a non medico-- and say-- oh you can always do rural work..

RURAL WORK-- is good. giving back to the community.. but for how long???

being a woman-- would you go to an interior place in india-- where women are looked down upon, there is no security. No electricity, limited water, varied food supplies.

you are away from family for 6 years of medical school and now you shud live furthur away ?

WHY?

when i chose to be a doctor-- i chose to serve people-- YES

i chose to not complain and treat people and be there for them during THE WORST TIMES OF THEIR LIVES.. (cos thats what sickness is right?) and i chose to listen to their complaints and criticism when they were well!

but i did not sign up to gamble my future or to be taken for a joyride by the govt. who can provide me with ZERO security when it comes to my future...

in this profession the INPUT is far in excess of the OUTPUT.

no wonder people in desperate need resort to other methods.

I agree they are wrong! but instead of blaming them --- creating shows to malign them etc etc---- ISNT IT BETTER TO DEAL WITH THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF WHY THEY DO IT?????

and as for being hurt ...

Originally posted by: earth1978

first of all i apologise before hand if u find anything offensive about my post.

but i dont want my daughter to become a doctor.

why becuase it takes a good 10 years at least to be able to earn sufficient money by which i mean a pay of 50000 rupess to bring home.

a software professional by contrats earns the day he graduates due to campus selections. the package they get is like 12 lakhs per year or 1 lakh per month. or at least 50000 rs per month if he is an average graduate from an average university.

so whose profession is betetr?

MBA is even better. u do an MBA from IIM and the package u get is 24 lakhs at least!!

while a doctor in the same age say 22 or 23 is earning rs 5000 or 10000 per month!

so whose profession is betetr?

an engineer and an MBA can find employment anywhere but doctors have to give liscensing tests in each country and some countires like japan and canada are CLOSED TO foriegn doctors!

why do we have liscensing tests for doctors and not engineers and MBAs everywhere becuase it involves life.

i want my daughter to go in advertising or journalism for i feel they r betetr options.

the point i raised was in india violence against doctors is increasing. in 2002 when i was an intern my male collgues were assualted in front of my eyes just becuase they had put a patient on hold since his injuries wre not so serious and they had to treat sm1 else first. i was saved becuas ei was female.

then police had come and assulted doctors with lathies.

thsi si fairly common indian ... but uncommon anywhere else! i can say this confidently becuase i have traveled the world.

Originally posted by: payalgarg

I am sorry miss earth1978 but if u think that violence against doctors are increasing in India then there is no smoke without fire..

1)The supreme Court of India has passed strict judgements that no hospital can deny admission to an emergency patient because of money and no doctor can delay treatment saying its a police case.But we all know what happens.

2)If a patient goes to a doctor with already available and recent medical reports the RESPECTED AND QUALIFIED DOCTOR' behaves as if its written in some unknown language understandable to him/her and asks the patient to undergo a series of tests from a SPECIFIC DIAGNOSTIC CENTRE so that he/she can get his commission.The patient can die without treatment if he does not have money for those tests MOST OF WHICH ARE JUST WASTE OF MONEY.

3)When baba ramdev came to preach Ayurved he did not say do not go to allopathic doctor.Patanjali still advises that please follow ur routine medicine along with ours.It is a different case that after being treated from Patanjali for one month the patient throws the allopathic medicine as he doesnt need any more of them and decides on ayurved.BUT WHY WERE THE DOCTORS HELL BENT ON PREACHING THAT AYURVED IS GOOD FOR NOTHING?

4)A large number of medicines are banned abroad but the respective foreign companies still make these medicines and sell them in India.PROXIMOL is one such medicine that tops the list and is precribed by most of the doctors.Now please do not tell me that they dont know that these medicines are banned and what side effects they have.

5)In govt.hospitals doctors are behaving like bed dalals and I will not change my word whether u like it or not.

You said your colleague were beaten because they refused to attend a patient as the other one was more serious.I dont know the truth as I was not there to figure out whether your colleagues refused to attend the patient due to police case or the other patient was maaldaal party and so they got influenced or the reports brought by the patient was UNREADABLE to your colleagues or actually the other patient was so much serious that all the doctors including you were trying to save him but any one of you didnt think of attaneding the other patient.I seriously dont know so I will not comment on that.But I know what happened by my city few days back.4 people died on the road in an accident longing for treatment but a hospital and the hospitals refused to take them in saying its a POLICE CASE.now what do u expect the public to do with these people?DO POOJA?

You say u do not look down on any other profession but yes u do.You said its easy for an MBA or a software engineer to get an handsome salary after they complete their studies.Even if u think u are right then let me tell you they get it because they worth it and not because its easy.Why didnt u do an MBA or become a software engineer if its that easy?

In every profession there are good people and bad people.I agree that there are VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY few doctors who do not qualify in the above category of monsters but THERE ARE.I agree with that.The rest while taking the oath say the patients life come first but after they pass out their profession money replaces patient in the oath.

No one is blaming you here that u quallify in the above category.But I think u should have the spirit of accepting the facts and should try to change it rather than asking public to consider your profession as something very sacred and pooja worthy which nowadays it is not.

"You said your colleague were beaten because they refused to attend a patient as the other one was more serious.I dont know the truth as I was not there to figure out whether your colleagues refused to attend the patient due to police case or the other patient was maaldaal party and so they got influenced or the reports brought by the patient was UNREADABLE to your colleagues or actually the other patient was so much serious that all the doctors including you were trying to save him but any one of you didnt think of attaneding the other patient.I seriously dont know so I will not comment on that.But I know what happened by my city few days back.4 people died on the road in an accident longing for treatment but a hospital at a stone's throw refused to take them in saying its a POLICE CASE.now what do u expect the public to do with these people?DO POOJA?"

Originally posted by: earth1978

assaulting and threatening with life is not going to solve any issues u may be having with ur docs.

u want them to serve you, you cannot give them money , then give them safe work conditions.

lss and less parents are sending their off aprings to medical colleges , and the oens who have graduated are migrating.

if government and public dont get their act together india wud soon be inhabitable for doctors and be a nation witouth them.

any possibel justification u may have for assaulting anyone not just a doctor will warrant the same scentence the topic maker is cryign about : would you recommend and defend it still if it were family and not an anonymous person?

everyone is someone's so, brother, sister, daughter. everyone is someone's faily. and assult is never jsutifiable punishment to any professional failure anywhere. btu again it is a hard reality of a junior doctors life which is not there in any other profession.

Originally posted by: natasha-remix

1)The supreme Court of India has passed strict judgements that no hospital can deny admission to an emergency patient because of money and no doctor can delay treatment saying its a police case.But we all know what happens. ---- have you actually seen that happening? im not asking it to be offensive.. but just cos i've only heard the so called stories and seen it in movies.. but never seen it happen in real life.

even in pvt hospitals.. IF THE PATIENT CANNOT AFFORD MEDICATION .. BUT HE IS CRITICAL -- he is first stabalized --- AND THEN REFERRED!

2)If a patient goes to a doctor with already available and recent medical reports the RESPECTED AND QUALIFIED DOCTOR' behaves as if its written in some unknown language understandable to him/her and asks the patient to undergo a series of tests from a SPECIFIC DIAGNOSTIC CENTRE so that he/she can get his commission.The patient can die without treatment if he does not have money for those tests MOST OF WHICH ARE JUST WASTE OF MONEY.

1- are reports from STANDARDIZED labs? were all the required tests done?

2 - are reports RECENT (<2weeks)

3- are XRAYS digital -- which are optimum for diagnosis?

4- patients dying without treatment:: i have personally experienced this case ---

patient with acute paralysis --- 24 year old boy -- treatment cost more than Rs 1 lac every week due to the drugs required plus ventilator support etc etc. stayed in hospital for 1.5 months.

left the hospital -- WALKING ON HIS OWN FEET-- HAPPY!

problem -- came from a farmers family -- whose parents said -- we cannot afford treatment. so for us its ok if you pull of the ventilator and let him die!

DOCTOR ON DUTY --- spoke to drug companies (for no ulterior motive and personal gain), got his drugs done free. spoke to hospital management and got his bill down to free hospital stay ..

WHAT THEY HAD TO PAY --- eventually only Rs. 1600/- (INITAL MONEY THAT THEY HAD ALREADY PAYED... AND MIND YOU.. THEY GAVE IT ON THEIR OWN .. COS IT WAS ALL THEY COULD AFFORD)

OUTCOME -- Doctors, residents, interns, nursing staff, ward boys, cleaners -- salary for all of them comes from the bill you pay! but the hospital still chose to look over all this and pay out of its own pocket. Doctors related to the case took a pay cut.

and this was not some big shot hospital! it was just a small one in maharashtra.

and there are several other cases that i can tell you about during free time :)

3)When baba ramdev came to preach Ayurved he did not say do not go to allopathic doctor.Patanjali still advises that please follow ur routine medicine along with ours.It is a different case that after being treated from Patanjali for one month the patient throws the allopathic medicine as he doesnt need any more of them and decides on ayurved.BUT WHY WERE THE DOCTORS HELL BENT ON PREACHING THAT AYURVED IS GOOD FOR NOTHING?

I agree with you here... alot of people donot know the good affects of ayurveda and can hence make an ill- educated guess

again the problem is in EDUCATING those doctors...

please remember that when a person gets involved in medical education he/she is just 18.

and needs to be EDUCATED AS A WHOLE on the subject... so why does our curriculum not have that provided?

in countries abroad -- they are taught the bare minimum about atleast the interactions with ayurvedic medications --- so that they can warn their patients about not taking both together!

for eg---- that if you are taking WARFARIN (a blood thinner) you should avoid excess ginger/garlic/ and St Johns wart... cos it can lead to life threatening bleeding

4)A large number of medicines are banned abroad but the respective foreign companies still make these medicines and sell them in India.PROXIMOL is one such medicine that tops the list and is precribed by most of the doctors.Now please do not tell me that they dont know that these medicines are banned and what side effects they have.

a doctor is allowed to prescribe ANY medication that is allowed by the govt of india.

if you want a medicine banned --- approach the FDA in INDIA that allows substandard clinical trials to pass without being noticed due to bribery ----- PLEASE READ THE LATEST ARTICLE IN THE JOURNAL "THE LANCET" PUBLISHED IN UK THIS MONTH.

5)In govt.hospitals doctors are behaving like bed dalals and I will not change my word whether u like it or not.

please elaborate.

even then let me give you an example

in the capital city of india... there are two big hospitals close to one another

AIIMS and Safdarjung

AIIMS has a one bed -- one patient policy--- so if beds are full .. they dont take any more patients (cos they cannot- legally) so patients are reffered to Safdarjung.

Safdarjang -- has no such policy --- cos although it is govt owned it doesnt have as much of the ""ELITE"' visitors coming to it as AIIMS.. in the general ward you have 2-3 patients per bed!!

IS THIS A JOKE??? ITS HUMAN LIFE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT??

who has to increase the beds and create better infrastructure ----- THE PEOPLE WHO FUND THESE HOSPITALS... who is that -- THE GOVT.

and then doctors are blamed for being over worked?

umm if you have to manage the life of 3 people instead of one --- forget the pay-- the stress does get to you!!!

dealing with death and sickness every day of your life.. is not an easy process... physically, psychologically or emotionally!

please feel free to ask me anything else.. i will respond
😊

Originally posted by: payalgarg

ma'am u do not have an answer to any one of my question so u are twisting the topic itself.Nobody asked the doctor to work for free but that doesnt mean the doctor will slit our throat to get money like'haaan,bach ke kahan jaoge,lo main aa gaya?

when patanjali will give medicines at 30-40 Rs and will teach free pranayam,doctors are bound to migrate abroad.When you go abroad I may not be there to say u goodbye so I better wish now,BYeee

i agree with your post.

i am an indian doctor.

i spent over 10 lac rupees for my education just to get thru with my mbbs degree. WHY?

because of reservation i had to take up seat in a private medical college. my parents took loans and payed my fee.

now after just MBBS-- the pay i will get in mumbai to join any hospital is just Rs-18000/- per month. (BEST Opportunities) or even less!! (getting job is difficult)

during MBBS===there have been numerous instances where as an intern i have been on duty for more than 48 hours at a stretch (sometimes having the time to eat just one meal in the day ---- and this would happen atleast once every week!!) just at the age of 22-23... how many 22-23 year olds in MBA/engineering or other fields have to do that??? why are there NO RULES to regulate working standards for doctors while there are some guidelines for other professions???? Residents have it even worse.. i've seen residents in wards from 8 am in the morning-- first admitting then evaluating.. and managing patients till 5 am in the morning.. and then reporting for duty with grand rounds etc again at 8 am... 3 HOURS OF SLEEP?? SO MUCH STRESS--- AND YOU ARE DEALING WITH HUMAN LIFE---- what kind of work standard is that?????

if i go for MD-- i will spend atleast 1 more year preparing for my enterance.. and there too due to a lack of seats.. it willl be difficult...

getting into postgraduation/residency ---- based solely on ONE test.. in which i have to mug things up by heart and then vomit it out on a paper! and based on that it will define my future..

and it has quite alot of stuff that is irrelevant to actual practice... how people prepare for it .. is take last 20 year question papers and LEARN THEM BY HEART!

i mean what kind of doctor does that make you --- one that can answer theorotical questions??? real life management of patients/concepts/ contraindications/ acute management... is very different for EVERY SINGLE PATIENT!

(most other countries have interviews in addition to merit-- to judge your ability of acutal management.. to see what kind of person you are.. how you would deal with patients and people. their tests are concept based --- they ask you about stuff in various situations -- what is the next best step if this happens.. then what will you do... how will you diagnose? how will you change treatment for this special patient etc etc)

when i do get in.. it will be another 3 years before i finish my MD..

during MD my stipend will be Rs-3000 to Rs-5000 per month! IS THIS A JOKE?

IN WHICH OTHER PROFESSION DO YOU GET PAYED ONLY SO MUCH THAT TOO WITH A MASTERS DEGREE?

i have spent 6 years in medical college + 1 year preparing for PG + 3 years of MD == atleast 10 years!!

so by the age of 28.. i might get a job!! and notice the word MIGHT

(currently in delhi and mumbai and any city there are very few positions open for people with just MD medicine.

if you have done MD medicine.. you need to super specialize)

so at the age of 28 i will get my first salary... how much will that be???

by the time i have savings or i can think of being independent... i will be 30+

so when should i concentrate on my personal life?? marriage, family, vacation, parents, siblings??

but even then relentlessly we work.. every day and every night...

and yet baring criticism.. NON STOP and abuses from the general public.. due to a select few people that have some kind of ill conduct...

NO WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD-- do doctors have such bad returns.

IN USA -- there is an excess of PG seats .. which foreign students can apply to. every year about 10,000 foreign students get in on MERIT! - and there are working laws for the limit to the number of hours you can work in a week or in a day!

if india has an EXCESS of workforce.--- why arent there better laws or solutions to employ them or organize them in a proper manner??

the starting pay for a resident is about 4000$ ---- convert that into indian currency and see how much that is!! even in $$ and living there.. it is enough to support a family of 2- rent an apartment -- and own a car!

NO wonder doctors go abroad... they pay nearly 5000$ for different exams/travel/interviews etc to get to usa.. to have a better life for themselves... and now what does the govt say??? THEY PUT A CLAUSE ON THE VISA FOR DOCTORS---saying you have to come back immidiately after residency there.

ARE THEY ASSURING US A JOB AFTER WE COME BACK--- NO

ARE THEY GOING TO FUND OUR STUDIES SO WE CAN GO ABROAD AND COME BACK AND SERVE THE PEOPLE HERE BETTER ---- NO!

why????

the amount of MBBS doctors our country generates is far in excess of the PG seats available.

when the govt knows that there are NO jobs available. for just mbbs doctors... WHY ARE THEY FURTHUR LIMITING PG SEATS? WHY ARE THEY PLAYING WITH OUT FUTURES?

it is very easy to be a non medico-- and say-- oh you can always do rural work..

RURAL WORK-- is good. giving back to the community.. but for how long???

being a woman-- would you go to an interior place in india-- where women are looked down upon, there is no security. No electricity, limited water, varied food supplies.

you are away from family for 6 years of medical school and now you shud live furthur away ?

WHY?

when i chose to be a doctor-- i chose to serve people-- YES

i chose to not complain and treat people and be there for them during THE WORST TIMES OF THEIR LIVES.. (cos thats what sickness is right?) and i chose to listen to their complaints and criticism when they were well!

but i did not sign up to gamble my future or to be taken for a joyride by the govt. who can provide me with ZERO security when it comes to my future...

in this profession the INPUT is far in excess of the OUTPUT.

no wonder people in desperate need resort to other methods.

I agree they are wrong! but instead of blaming them --- creating shows to malign them etc etc---- ISNT IT BETTER TO DEAL WITH THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF WHY THEY DO IT?????

you r so right...i agree wid u full on...i too am a doctor , just graduated n career ahead is full of hurdles...u just summarised our pains!!!!