How Baawre lost me - Page 2

Created

Last reply

Replies

32

Views

2.7k

Users

7

Likes

51

Frequent Posters

win7 thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#11
Nice post. I agree with you. The matter with the waiter was swept off like it was nothing. I thought yamini should be shown feeling guilty on behalf of the waiter. Or even fear in regards to her father. I would. He was violent. Even if she did not question her father because of her fear they could have shown her talking with dado. No matter how close the person is, someone acting that violent is disturbing. I am not sure with nikumb because I skipped some scenes after.
I have started to ff Ragvendra and his drama and just enjoy nikumb, yamini and and the friends scenes.
KhatamKahani thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#12

Originally posted by: AreYaar

@KhatamKahani:

1) I'm not putting any words into your mouth...Tone is very open to interpretation on the internet and you seem to be getting greatly offended by mine although that isn't my intention...similarly, I too don't appreciate the tone you take with me in some of your responses but I'm not going to dwell on that since that side-tracks the discussion.


2) I never said you don't know how to look at these characters or this setting...please stop being so defensive...it's a sincere request...if I frame a one or two line answer in response to your point by point elaborated essay, it doesn't mean I have not read your whole set or arguments...so again, please don't make that presumption...if my response is to the point, that only means that it is an overarching summary of response to what I felt were very similarly made arguments so I did not personally see the need to word out elaborate responses...not sure if that would have made you feel that I've read your whole post but again I'd like to reiterate that I did...


3) I understand that there is a breaking point for a connect with every character...happens over the course of most shows...for you, it appears that point has been with this waiter issue and the lack of apt reaction as you said...as I already said, I too took offense to that being shown...and I wondered what the writers were trying to go with...

Now this is the way I saw it with the epis that followed...the writers were trying to show that Raghu was already worked up about Nikumb-Yamini's closeness at the engagement and the waiter happened to show up there...as I am trying to follow it, it seems that in small towns, such kind of bumping is not considered accidental, which is why even Nikumb (to my surprise later on) agreed with Raghu's reaction...cuz he too felt that the waiter was trying to come on to Yamini deliberately...true or false, I felt it was an over-reaction and didn't really like the way it was shown but personally for me, I could let it pass cuz it didn't come to define the show for me...I didn't yet lose my connect.

Again, this is just my viewpoint, I'm not trying to put words into yours or anyone else's mouth.

I only wondered if there might be some sort of disconnect since you need to watch with subtitles to understand the show fully. Please don't take this in an offensive manner but I wonder if the whole context comes through if the language is difficult to follow?


1 and 2), I don't care what tone you take or took. But you decided to outright deem my post to be a CRUSADE. So yeah, So yeah, I will respond defensively and even rudely,

But that being said, the following is simply my response and I am not taking offense to the language question nor your explanation to the actual topic at hand.

3) How is Nikumbh in any position to deem whether the waiter was trying to come onto Yamini deliberately? Only Raghvendra saw the touch, which was slight and a brush of his elbow. Those witness to the assault only saw the assault nothing else. The people behind the first group of people were dancing away and were not aware of anything which happened. Nikumbh was away and had no idea, and probably only came to know from the gossip which spread.

Everyone by default believed Raghvendra's words. Nobody else at that party would've brushed past Yamin at such a function? Raghvendra wouldn't have dared to do anything to a guest of high standing for a similar elbow bump. He knew he couldn't do anything to Nikumbh though he would've liked to, and he transferred his frustration onto the waiter when the opportunity presented itself.

Everyone was willing to believe Raghvendra was right and the waiter behaved inappropriately with Yamini, even though no one saw what happened. This is realistic, I agree. But it should not have been validated by Nikumbh who should know better, nor should it have been brushed over by Yamini the next day.

Language, no it's not a language issue. As I can understand quite enough and and I know enough to understand when subs aren't accurate and can understand the actual accurate meanings for the most part.

And even more so, I am not the only one who feels this way. It's just that I, one week later, finally forced myself into writing a post detailing why I was upset, which I should've done last week itself.
Edited by KhatamKahani - 11 years ago
KhatamKahani thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: win7

Nice post. I agree with you. The matter with the waiter was swept off like it was nothing. I thought yamini should be shown feeling guilty on behalf of the waiter. Or even fear in regards to her father. I would. He was violent. Even if she did not question her father because of her fear they could have shown her talking with dado. No matter how close the person is, someone acting that violent is disturbing. I am not sure with nikumb because I skipped some scenes after.

I have started to ff Ragvendra and his drama and just enjoy nikumb, yamini and and the friends scenes.


Thank you. I, who used to enjoy the show as a whole, am now at the point where I may FF and just enjoy the scenes of the younger ones, and Yamini with her Dadu. It shouldn't be the case, because Raghvendra also plays a big part in the story. And as you said, Yamini was not shown having an apt reaction, which is not something everyone can accept easily. It is disturbing, and some of us were disturbed. Except for Yamini and the characters of the show, apparently it's not disturbing at all. And what that says of them, I don't want to know. This is why it's hard to connect again, because something which we find so disturbing is brushed under as if it was no big deal.
Edited by KhatamKahani - 11 years ago
AnjaliPunia thumbnail
12th Anniversary Thumbnail Dazzler Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#14
i agree post the waiter beating incident certain things have gone out of place. for me too that ws last i wwatched then yesterdays precap.
if yamini does not speak up by today or tmrw the shw will loose me too
LoveToLaugh thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#15
I'll try to make sense. I was as equally disappointed as you were after the 11th July episode. Like I said in another thread, it was such a wonderful opportunity for character development. It was wasted away. But more than anything, it went against Yamini's nature to be OKAY with something like that. Okay, she did not speak up. But to really be okay with what her father did? No. I was furious when Nikumbh said he would have reacted worse, because it came from Nikumbh! He should have been the one questioning it. He should have known that Raghu was capable of psychotic behavior!

But in spite of everything, it did not define the show for me at that point. It took me a while to see things a bit differently. I'll explain why, and I hope it will help you get your zeal back!

Yamini is still naive when it comes to her father. For all we know, it probably wasn't the first time Raghu behaved like that. Nothing could justify her brushing away the issue, but I think I can now understand. It was still wrong, but I can understand a little. She has been conditioned to this kind of behavior and all her life, she has taught herself to be okay with that. As in, she has learnt to tolerate such maniac-ness. Raghu behaves in a similar manner at home with his wife. Nobody ever speaks up against it. She has grown up with this and it will take a lot before she begins to question it. While the tasks brought out some of her more latent qualities, what I realized is that she still has not learnt to question people she has never questioned. And it is a fundamental thing. She needs to question if she needs to move on from it. Even during the tasks, she never QUESTIONED Nikumbh. She was surprised, yes. But she never asked him, "what makes you think you can make me do tasks?"

I do hope that one day she begins to question. She needs to see that she is nobody's puppet. Not Raghu's. Not Nikumbh's. Not anybody's. And I do have some faith that it will come.

And like you said,
Nikumbh was not present when the fiasco occurred. So I guess the only version he heard was that the waiter was being a creep and I guess he could understand Raghu's behavior. It did not help that Yamini did not clarify things. (And that is something I cannot sense of, still. She KNEW that the waiter had not done anything. She could not have made her father see any sense, anyway. But why did she not clear things with Nikumbh?) But it redeems him in some ways. (His scene with Raghu where he stands his ground and attacks him with that deceptively polite smile more than made up for any lack in his character that I may have found.)

More than anything else, I think the show is SO MUCH MORE than these shortcomings. Neelesh Misra's narration remains untainted and it is still the USP of the show. The dialogues remain rich. And the poetic quality remains intact. Nikumbh's scene with Raghu was pretty much OUTSTANDING. And in spite of everything, their journey with themselves and with each other makes for a show really worth it all. In spite of shortcomings, I want to see how they grow out of it and how these things change. I hope they make you stick to the show.
I guess we take the show a little too personally. There will be bumps along the road. But because we love the show so much, they bother us greatly. Perhaps we all should loosen up a little.


Edited by LoveToLaugh - 11 years ago
milinda.shreyz thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#16
Liks,
u promised to write this post long days back. had u written this much earlier,if might had the effect intended.but yes better late than never. U r very upset still, right ? and thats marring the enthu of watching the show. the story has moved on re, so letz also do the same thing but ofcourse not without discussing the points you have raised.
Tanisha hasalready said most of the things i wanted to talk about. like yamini's inability to speak in front of her dad even when he is horribly wrong. nikumbh's tasks have make her a bit open to the outer world...she can now meet with eyes of an stranger and give him a piece of mind without stammering, it has made Nikumbh a hero in her eyes, a role-model to be inspired ad to be followed, it helped her to dismantle the cloak of uncomfortable shyness and make friendship with azam, shaheen and theatre gang...BUT it is not at all enough to wipe away the intrinsic fear of her father and speak up to him. and she has probably seen he father beating up, threatening, insulting,manipulating people to get his means...forget other people, she has seen her mother living in fear of getting beaten and thrown out of the house all her life.Has she ever ever tried to stop her father stating that what h is doing is very wrong ?? NO !! it has become a routine oh her to stand aside making a frightened face and watch the whole fiasco in a terrorized stupor. As I hav said earlier that it was Raghu's ploy to teach Nikumbh and Theatre gang the lesson of what can happen to then if they dare to come too close to yamini. unfortunately the target was the helpless waiter who has neither power and position to protest...and more unfortunate is the fact neither nikumbh or azam had the firsthand knowledge of what happened actually that night. U found the treatment of the whole fiasco very much feudalistic which is actually true.
Liks,time is moving fast even i India and things are changing, but not really according to our expectation...and we, the new generation are doing nothing at all to make the change happening faster. We see things happen like this in front of our own eyes, know that what is happening is utterly wrong and should be stopped immediately, but we do nothing but wait for others to make the first move or turn our back with a prick of uncomfortable guilt in our mind. we raise our voices in FB, write a lot of radical things in blogs, show us thoughtful of social anomalies but when things such as these happen in front of our eyes, we do actually nothing, like some of those young people at the party who saw the whole incident and did nothing but gossiped among themselves.
I once faced a near similar incident, Liks. I saw a man slapping a Rikshawpuller in broad daylight in front of the eyes of say atleast 50 odd people.the man claimed that the rikshawpuller was charging extra money and the others in the crowd immediately supported that man, his wife stood nonchalant and some elderly man mumbled ab jaane bhi do, bechara garib admi hai...
A lot of young peoplewere present there too including me, but I could do nothing to stop that man's odious actions. I felt shamed at my inability but that was hardly enough to change this kind of lordly attitude of class-conscious society.

Edited by shreya_rc - 11 years ago
LoveToLaugh thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#17
^^ You are back! 🤗
Yeah...well, you said most of what I was trying to say! It will take Yamini a lot before she can conquer that intrinsic fear. When something has become such an intrinsic part of you, it is hard to confront it. Mostly because, like I said, you have stopped questioning.
I like how you compare it to a real life situation. Reading about that rickshaw-driver made me SO sad. People can be so disgusting! It's our generation. People who have a little money think they are above everybody else in society. Resorting to physical violence is also nothing new.
In that, the show is very realistic, like KK said too.
But like you said, the show has moved on. And we must move on too hoping that these instances will be taken up later and dealt with correctly.
Edited by LoveToLaugh - 11 years ago
milinda.shreyz thumbnail
16th Anniversary Thumbnail Rocker Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#18
Tanisha !!
muah !! me back kya re ! me toh was always there. yes, we should not expect older generations to be suddenly changed and liberal.Change should come from us but sadly our generations remain strangely indifferent. the thing i dislike in the show, is the cvs,narrator's constant effort to justify Raghu's scoundrelous motives and actions, making it appear as a father's very normal protective urge towards his ward , saying constantly that he loves his girl too much and worries about maintaining her star status.No much how hoarse they shout propagating that raghu is a normal loving dad, just a lil bit overbearing and control freak, nobody is convinced, I am sure. either they stop portraying him a monstrous power-hungry obnoxious man or they admit he is a psycho not a normal daddy.
LoveToLaugh thumbnail
13th Anniversary Thumbnail Voyager Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: shreya_rc

Tanisha !!
muah !! me back kya re ! me toh was always there. yes, we should not expect older generations to be suddenly changed and liberal.Change should come from us but sadly our generations remain strangely indifferent. the thing i dislike in the show, is the cvs,narrator's constant effort to justify Raghu's scoundrelous motives and actions, making it appear as a father's very normal protective urge towards his ward , saying constantly that he loves his girl too much and worries about maintaining her star status.No much how hoarse they shout propagating that raghu is a normal loving dad, just a lil bit overbearing and control freak, nobody is convinced, I am sure. either they stop portraying him a monstrous power-hungry obnoxious man or they admit he is a psycho not a normal daddy.


I saw you in the forum after a long time!

I agree with that. Raghu is a psychotic dad. Nothing else can justify his actions. One day, maybe Yamini will realize that and consider consulting a psychiatrist for her father. 😆 Maybe some day...
KhatamKahani thumbnail
15th Anniversary Thumbnail Stunner Thumbnail Networker 1 Thumbnail
Posted: 11 years ago
#20
Inline

Originally posted by: LoveToLaugh

I'll try to make sense. I was as equally disappointed as you were after the 11th July episode. Like I said in another thread, it was such a wonderful opportunity for character development. It was wasted away. But more than anything, it went against Yamini's nature to be OKAY with something like that. Okay, she did not speak up. But to really be okay with what her father did? No. I was furious when Nikumbh said he would have reacted worse, because it came from Nikumbh! He should have been the one questioning it. He should have known that Raghu was capable of psychotic behavior!


But in spite of everything, it did not define the show for me at that point. It took me a while to see things a bit differently. I'll explain why, and I hope it will help you get your zeal back!

My Title, which to be honest was the last thing I wrote, and by that time I was tired of using my brain so didn't feel like dwelling on what to put for a title, 😆 was taken from my introductory paragraphs, which is that I had been reduced to reading simply WUs rather than watching the episodes. And actually the title was/is apt, even if harsh and I used a better title--It really was difficult for me to bring myself to watch, and for that to me was equivalent of losing me.

Yamini is still naive when it comes to her father. For all we know, it probably wasn't the first time Raghu behaved like that. Nothing could justify her brushing away the issue, but I think I can now understand. It was still wrong, but I can understand a little. She has been conditioned to this kind of behavior and all her life, she has taught herself to be okay with that. As in, she has learnt to tolerate such maniac-ness. Raghu behaves in a similar manner at home with his wife. Nobody ever speaks up against it.

I agree with this, but this was outright violence and assault. Unless we say this is not any new behavior for Raghvendra. Which I can totally buy. But then, that begs the question. How is this man deserving of any respect? I am willing to wait it out and let the story play out. That is not a problem for me. My problem is how the immediately afterwards went on to their 'Raghvendra's other side' aspect. This to me signaled that they went this far with Raghvendra, but are still going to try to show him as good father and man at heart. I was prepared for that already all throughout the show, but after what happened at the party, that was/is unacceptable for me. Now in hindsight, I realize this may have just been a plot device for Nikumbh to show up at the house and get into the confrontation with Raghvendra. I would also say maybe it was done to show how Yamini can easily bring herself to convince herself of her father's goodness--except we already saw her unaffected and telling her mother all was fine. She really should've been affected. Like, it speaks to a the whole mentality of people and society that she wasn't affected.

She has grown up with this and it will take a lot before she begins to question it. While the tasks brought out some of her more latent qualities, what I realized is that she still has not learnt to question people she has never questioned. And it is a fundamental thing. She needs to question if she needs to move on from it. Even during the tasks, she never QUESTIONED Nikumbh. She was surprised, yes. But she never asked him, "what makes you think you can make me do tasks?"

This brings me actually to the first real problem I had within the show. But I ignored it and let it go. It was the Mutton Jalfreezi task. If you watch the episode prior to it, and that episode, you see that it started off with Nikumbh both talking to himself as well as to Yamini and others that this is about her adapting to situations. But then by the end of the episode, after Yamini takes the bite, it became about trust. To me it really was flimsy and didn't flow very well. It was not cool for him to expect her to take a bit out of meat when she is non-veg. If it was about her WANTING to try other things and new things, it's one thing (but let's face it, they would/could never show that here with the non veg issue). But here he was expecting her to do it because he told her to. Which is ridiculous. But I gave it my own explanation and reasoning. My thing was that if she was willing to go break that barrier (which is a big deal for a veg to take a leap and bite into nonveg), then it makes it easier for her to get past other things. For her to do things in situations which she may not have done earlier, or do things she feels needs to be done regardless or what others/society says. Even then, I feel that whole task as well as how it was written was weak.

So yes, she never questions Nikumbh, and even more so, when she should've she didn't.

But after that episode the story moved onto her convincing and making Nikumbh make promises ot her, and her demanding things from him, and for her talking back to him and demand he let go of some of his hangups. So I let the Jalfreezi thing slip away.

I do hope that one day she begins to question. She needs to see that she is nobody's puppet. Not Raghu's. Not Nikumbh's. Not anybody's. And I do have some faith that it will come.

Yes. I think with Nikumbh she is being her own person, since we are seeing their disagreements and arguments, and her asserting her opinions. With Raghu it remains my hope. And I hope it happens.

And like you said,
Nikumbh was not present when the fiasco occurred. So I guess the only version he heard was that the waiter was being a creep and I guess he could understand Raghu's behavior. It did not help that Yamini did not clarify things. (And that is something I cannot sense of, still. She KNEW that the waiter had not done anything. She could not have made her father see any sense, anyway. But why did she not clear things with Nikumbh?) But it redeems him in some ways. (His scene with Raghu where he stands his ground and attacks him with that deceptively polite smile more than made up for any lack in his character that I may have found.)

See, yes. I read the WU for that where he doesn't back down with Raghvendra. And I applaud him for that. But still as I said the whole thing overall didn't sit well with me, and still doesn't. The way everyone just brushed past it. That being said I am no longer as down on the show as I was. I already had made up my mind after reading yesterday's WU to try to start catching up again over the weekend or so.

More than anything else, I think the show is SO MUCH MORE than these shortcomings. Neelesh Misra's narration remains untainted and it is still the USP of the show. The dialogues remain rich. And the poetic quality remains intact. Nikumbh's scene with Raghu was pretty much OUTSTANDING. And in spite of everything, their journey with themselves and with each other makes for a show really worth it all. In spite of shortcomings, I want to see how they grow out of it and how these things change. I hope they make you stick to the show.

I agree it's a good show. The fact that I had more expectations and thought more highly of this show made it affect me that much more I guess. I still can't say that it doesn't bother me what happened. But it may be easier for me to pick up where I left off now.
I guess we take the show a little too personally. There will be bumps along the road. But because we love the show so much, they bother us greatly. Perhaps we all should loosen up a little.


Edited by KhatamKahani - 11 years ago

Related Topics

Top

Stay Connected with IndiaForums!

Be the first to know about the latest news, updates, and exclusive content.

Add to Home Screen!

Install this web app on your iPhone for the best experience. It's easy, just tap and then "Add to Home Screen".