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NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#11

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Anyone tempted to blame Kunti or consider the possibility she had a consensual affair, please read this:


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03304.htm


Surya then said, 'O damsel of slender waist, I will, even as thou hast said, return to the place I have come from! Having called a celestial, it is not, however, proper to send him away in vain. Thy intention, O blessed one, it is to have from Surya a son furnished with a coat of mail and ear-rings, and who in point of prowess would be beyond compare in this world! Do thou, therefore, O damsel of elephantine gait, surrender thy person to me! Thou shall then have, O lady, a son after thy wish! O gentle girl, O thou of sweet smiles, I will go back after having known thee! If thou do not gratify me to-day by obeying my word, I shall in anger curse thee, thy father and that Brahmana also. For thy fault, I will surely consume them all, and I shall inflict condign punishment on that foolish father of thine that knoweth not this transgression of thine and on that Brahmana who hath bestowed the mantras on thee without knowing thy disposition and character! Yonder are all the celestials in heaven, with Purandara at their head, who are looking at me with derisive smiles at my being deceived by thee, O lady! Look at those celestials, for thou art now possessed of celestial sight! Before this I have endued thee with celestial vision, in consequence of which thou couldst see me!'"


Vaisampayana continued, "Thereupon the princess beheld the celestials standing in the firmament, each in his proper sphere 1, even as she saw before her that highly resplendent deity furnished with rays, viz., Surya himself. And beholding them all, the girl became frightened and her face was suffused with blushes of shame. And then she addressed Surya, saying, 'O lord of rays, go thou back to thy own region. On account of my maidenhood, this outrage of thine is fraught with woe to me! It is only one's father, mother, and other superiors, that are capable of giving away their daughter's body. Virtue I shall never sacrifice, seeing that in this world the keeping of their persons inviolate is deemed as the highest duty of women, and is held in high regard! O thou possessed of wealth of splendour, it is only to test the power of my mantras that I have, from mere childishness, summoned thee. Considering that this hath been done by a girl of tender years, it behoveth thee, O lord, to forgive her!' Then Surya said, 'It is because I consider thee a girl that, O Kunti, I am speaking

p. 594

to thee so mildly. To one that is not so I would not concede this. Do thou, O Kunti, surrender thyself! Thou shalt surely attain happiness thereby. Since, O timid maiden, thou hast invoked me with mantras, it is not proper for me to go away without any purpose being attained, for, if I do so I shall then. O thou of faultless limbs, be the object of laughter in the world, and, O beauteous damsel, a bye-word with all the celestials. Do thou, therefore, yield to me! By that thou shalt obtain a son even like myself, and thou shalt also be much praised in all the world.'"

__________________________


After Kunti refuses him, Surya threatens her with the lives of her father and Durvasa. He says other gods will laugh at him if she doesn't comply.


Forgive me if I hurt feelings with this: but Surya sounds like an entitled, unprincipled aristocrat rather than a god. I am firmly in the camp of him being a prince/disciple of Durvasa, perhaps belonging to the solar dynasty.

__________________________


https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03305.htm


'How may my innocent father, and that Brahmana also, escape the angry Surya's curse for my sake? Although energy and asceticism are capable of destroying sins, yet even honest persons, if they be of unripe age, should not foolishly court them. By foolishly acting in that way I have today been placed in a frightful situation. Indeed, I have been placed entirely within the grasp of this deity. Ye how can I do what is sinful by taking it on myself to surrender my person to him?'


...


Vaisampayana continued, "Hearing these words of hers Surya said, 'So be it!' And that ranger of the skies, that enemy of Swarbhanu, with soul absorbed in Yoga, entered into Kunti, and touched her on the navel. At this, that damsel, on account of Surya's energy, became stupefied. And that reverend lady then fell down on her bed, deprived of her senses. Surya then addressed her, saying, 'I will now depart, O thou of graceful hips! Thou shalt bring forth a son who will become the foremost of all wielders of weapons. At the same time thou shalt remain a virgin.'"

Vaisampayana continued, "Then, O foremost of kings, as the highly effulgent Surya was about to depart, that girl bashfully said unto him, 'So be it!' And it was thus that the daughter of king Kuntibhoja, importuned by Surya, had after soliciting a son from him, fallen down stupefied on that excellent bed, like a broken creeper. And it was thus that deity of fierce rays, stupefying her, entered into her by virtue of Yoga power, and placed his own self within her womb. The deity, however, did not sully her by deflowering her in the flesh. And after Surya had gone away, that girl regained her consciousness."

__________________________


Vyasa did not sugarcoat what Surya did.


So, Surya was a man who forced himself on Kunti

This is just sick what BR Chopra has done to Draupadi, Kunti and Subhadra

Eloquent thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#12

Originally posted by: NoraSM


So, Surya was a man who forced himself on Kunti

This is just sick what BR Chopra has done to Draupadi, Kunti and Subhadra


Don't think this is merely BR Chopra's doing.


Looking at the text itself, it seems to be apologist to Surya dev. Kunti was stricken down, yet Surya didn't deflower her in the flesh n all.


In whatever way Surya could have given her some other boon if he didn't/couldn't go without doing something. This is barbaric. Kunti was clearly the victim here.


The only blame to Kunti is that she abandoned Karna in the river as a baby in a small boat which could have easily capsized. She could have given it to some childless couple. She could have been braver and raised him up herself (but this is idealist & not realist view).

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#13

Originally posted by: Eloquent


Don't think this is merely BR Chopra's doing.


Looking at the text itself, it seems to be apologist to Surya dev. Kunti was stricken down, yet Surya didn't deflower her in the flesh n all.


In whatever way Surya could have given her some other boon if he didn't/couldn't go without doing something. This is barbaric. Kunti was clearly the victim here.


The only blame to Kunti is that she abandoned Karna in the river as a baby in a small boat which could have easily capsized. She could have given it to some childless couple. She could have been braver and raised him up herself (but this is idealist & not realist view).


Entered into her is said a couple of times. Not possible to avoid deflowering. Like Panchali later, Kunti is said to have remained a virgin spite of physical relations.


If we take the divine element, Kunti knew the baby would be safe and therefore cannot be blamed.


If we take out the non divine element, there is no way a baby reached all the way from Kuntibhoj to Anga (which text says he did) in a basket. My assumption is she sent him in a boat.

Sanskruthi thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#14

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

No I meant Durvasa was the person and just to cover up they floated the theory of son


Ang Bang Kalinga were Sudeshna's son?? The same Virat ji ki wife? Unke naam States pe the?


Wife of king Vali I guess🤔 I don't have KMG right now but it's part of sambhava parva. They had boon by Rishi that they'll have territories named after them.

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#15

Saying this, I just want to understand why didn't she try for an abortion in the first trimester instead of carrying the baby for the complete duration and then throwing him away!!!

Making a newborn baby travel miles (even if in some kind of secured environment) without the mother is always risky for kid. She was ready to let the kid die after birth but didn't want to end it while he was still in the first stage??


There have been several methods of abortion known to women since prehistoric times so I wouldn't buy the theory she wasn't aware of one any such method.

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#16

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi


Wife of king Vali I guess🤔 I don't have KMG right now but it's part of sambhava parva. They had boon by Rishi that they'll have territories named after them.

But AngPradesh is an old territory and definitely predates Mahabharata era.


I am confused now

Eloquent thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#17

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Saying this, I just want to understand why didn't she try for an abortion in the first trimester instead of carrying the baby for the complete duration and then throwing him away!!!

Making a newborn baby travel miles (even if in some kind of secured environment) without the mother is always risky for kid. She was ready to let the kid die after birth but didn't want to end it while he was still in the first stage??


There have been several methods of abortion known to women since prehistoric times so I wouldn't buy the theory she wasn't aware of one any such method.


Another question is how did she keep it quiet for nine months that she wasn't pregnant?

731627 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#18

Karn was not born after 9 month


God sun was asking kunti to embrace him

But kunti hesitate to do it as it was sinful . But God sun assure it is not sinful

Then kunti grant wish of sun and embrace him and karn immediately born out of connection

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago
#19

Originally posted by: Eloquent


Another question is how did she keep it quiet for nine months that she wasn't pregnant?

That isn't difficult if you don't meet others a lot. She might be wearing lose clothes and come out rarely.


I think it is mentioned in KMG that she didn't meet many during that phase, will just check and revert


P.S. the link which states she didn't come out of the palace of maidens

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03306.htm

Edited by FlauntPessimism - 5 years ago
731627 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago
#20

Karn birth was not like normal human being

Karn birth was divine birth that is why when karn was born he has ear rings in his ear

Normally human being don't born wearing jewellery but karn born wearing jewelry

Mahabharata is not normal human being story. It is divine story

Edited by surabhi01 - 5 years ago

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