Karna and Kunti

Kunti rejecting Karna after his birth is understandable as she was an unmarried woman, I got to know that Karna's birth was through the course of 9 months

What I don't understand is that If Kunti did not want him, how can they go for artificial insemination or test tube baby process without Kunti's consent?

Is it possible that she had an affair with someone and gave birth out of wedlock?

Most probably that's what happened or else she did physical Sewa of Durwasa muni and this was the blessing

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Most probably that's what happened or else she did physical Sewa of Durwasa muni and this was the blessing

What's the theory behind this except IB's article? IIRC there's a description of Surya includes him being loaded with ornaments. muni will be a handsome loaded with ornaments? 🤔

Yes possible that she did had an affair with a prince named surya. And the later abonded her when she got pregnant

Another being durwasa taking advantage of her.

Anyone tempted to blame Kunti or consider the possibility she had a consensual affair, please read this:

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03304.htm

Surya then said, 'O damsel of slender waist, I will, even as thou hast said, return to the place I have come from! Having called a celestial, it is not, however, proper to send him away in vain. Thy intention, O blessed one, it is to have from Surya a son furnished with a coat of mail and ear-rings, and who in point of prowess would be beyond compare in this world! Do thou, therefore, O damsel of elephantine gait, surrender thy person to me! Thou shall then have, O lady, a son after thy wish! O gentle girl, O thou of sweet smiles, I will go back after having known thee! If thou do not gratify me to-day by obeying my word, I shall in anger curse thee, thy father and that Brahmana also. For thy fault, I will surely consume them all, and I shall inflict condign punishment on that foolish father of thine that knoweth not this transgression of thine and on that Brahmana who hath bestowed the mantras on thee without knowing thy disposition and character! Yonder are all the celestials in heaven, with Purandara at their head, who are looking at me with derisive smiles at my being deceived by thee, O lady! Look at those celestials, for thou art now possessed of celestial sight! Before this I have endued thee with celestial vision, in consequence of which thou couldst see me!'"

Vaisampayana continued, "Thereupon the princess beheld the celestials standing in the firmament, each in his proper sphere 1, even as she saw before her that highly resplendent deity furnished with rays, viz., Surya himself. And beholding them all, the girl became frightened and her face was suffused with blushes of shame. And then she addressed Surya, saying, 'O lord of rays, go thou back to thy own region. On account of my maidenhood, this outrage of thine is fraught with woe to me! It is only one's father, mother, and other superiors, that are capable of giving away their daughter's body. Virtue I shall never sacrifice, seeing that in this world the keeping of their persons inviolate is deemed as the highest duty of women, and is held in high regard! O thou possessed of wealth of splendour, it is only to test the power of my mantras that I have, from mere childishness, summoned thee. Considering that this hath been done by a girl of tender years, it behoveth thee, O lord, to forgive her!' Then Surya said, 'It is because I consider thee a girl that, O Kunti, I am speaking

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to thee so mildly. To one that is not so I would not concede this. Do thou, O Kunti, surrender thyself! Thou shalt surely attain happiness thereby. Since, O timid maiden, thou hast invoked me with mantras, it is not proper for me to go away without any purpose being attained, for, if I do so I shall then. O thou of faultless limbs, be the object of laughter in the world, and, O beauteous damsel, a bye-word with all the celestials. Do thou, therefore, yield to me! By that thou shalt obtain a son even like myself, and thou shalt also be much praised in all the world.'"

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After Kunti refuses him, Surya threatens her with the lives of her father and Durvasa. He says other gods will laugh at him if she doesn't comply.

Forgive me if I hurt feelings with this: but Surya sounds like an entitled, unprincipled aristocrat rather than a god. I am firmly in the camp of him being a prince/disciple of Durvasa, perhaps belonging to the solar dynasty.

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https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03305.htm

'How may my innocent father, and that Brahmana also, escape the angry Surya's curse for my sake? Although energy and asceticism are capable of destroying sins, yet even honest persons, if they be of unripe age, should not foolishly court them. By foolishly acting in that way I have today been placed in a frightful situation. Indeed, I have been placed entirely within the grasp of this deity. Ye how can I do what is sinful by taking it on myself to surrender my person to him?'

...

Vaisampayana continued, "Hearing these words of hers Surya said, 'So be it!' And that ranger of the skies, that enemy of Swarbhanu, with soul absorbed in Yoga, entered into Kunti, and touched her on the navel. At this, that damsel, on account of Surya's energy, became stupefied. And that reverend lady then fell down on her bed, deprived of her senses. Surya then addressed her, saying, 'I will now depart, O thou of graceful hips! Thou shalt bring forth a son who will become the foremost of all wielders of weapons. At the same time thou shalt remain a virgin.'"

Vaisampayana continued, "Then, O foremost of kings, as the highly effulgent Surya was about to depart, that girl bashfully said unto him, 'So be it!' And it was thus that the daughter of king Kuntibhoja, importuned by Surya, had after soliciting a son from him, fallen down stupefied on that excellent bed, like a broken creeper. And it was thus that deity of fierce rays, stupefying her, entered into her by virtue of Yoga power, and placed his own self within her womb. The deity, however, did not sully her by deflowering her in the flesh. And after Surya had gone away, that girl regained her consciousness."

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Vyasa did not sugarcoat what Surya did.

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

What's the theory behind this except IB's article? IIRC there's a description of Surya includes him being loaded with ornaments. muni will be a handsome loaded with ornaments? 🤔

The only theory is that I don't believe that there were Gods reaching out to her

And HearMeRoar had another possible theory that Karna was actually the son of Adhirath/some of his relatives and Kunti didn't actually threw him away but had actually sent him to his father's family. As per HV, Anga was ruled by Adhirath who was from the SuryaVansh. Maybe Pandu/Dhritrashtra had won over the land from Adhirath and Duryodhan returned him the land traditionally belonging to his family

Interestingly, Surya here is described as enemy of Swarbhanu. Swarbhanu is the demon responsible for eclipses. According to MBh, Swarbhanu incarnates as Ugrasena, Kunti's uncle and king of Mathura/Dwaraka.

Did Kunti get assaulted by an enemy of her clan? Possible.

Kunti was testing durvasa boon whether durvasa boon is true or not so she chant mantra of surya to invoke surya and surya really come to kunti and kunti got afraid and ask forgiveness from sun god and ask him to go back but surya God says that durvasa blessing will not go in vain so surya gave spiritual son karn to kunti and then went away

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m01/m01112.htm

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

The only theory is that I don't believe that there were Gods reaching out to her

And HearMeRoar had another possible theory that Karna was actually the son of Adhirath/some of his relatives and Kunti didn't actually threw him away but had actually sent him to his father's family. As per HV, Anga was ruled by Adhirath who was from the SuryaVansh. Maybe Pandu/Dhritrashtra had won over the land from Adhirath and Duryodhan returned him the land traditionally belonging to his family

I know abt the other theory, about Queen sudeshna and her sons anga, vanga, Kalinga etc who were promised glory like Surya, we'd discussed that in DDT before. Not sure about HV though, did not read that much. I only wanted to know about this durvasa theory since MB mentions Surya and Durvasa to be different individuals.

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

I know abt the other theory, about Queen sudeshna and her sons anga, vanga, Kalinga etc who were promised glory like Surya, we'd discussed that in DDT before. Not sure about HV though, did not read that much. I only wanted to know about this durvasa theory since MB mentions Surya and Durvasa to be different individuals.

No I meant Durvasa was the person and just to cover up they floated the theory of son

Ang Bang Kalinga were Sudeshna's son?? The same Virat ji ki wife? Unke naam States pe the?