Subbu was never wrong

Originally posted by: gems4emma

I'm sorry; I have to disagree. I was rewatching the old episodes last night actually and for me, Subbu is worse than Prateek.

Subbu was wrong because he could not stand up to his mother - as opposed to Bala, who tactfully balances both his in-laws/Vandu/and mother. The fact that Subbu was willing to throw away a ten-year old relationship that quickly was despicable. It would be completely understandable if it Subbu and Ishita were engaged/dating for a shorter time and then they found out about her infertility. But ten years is a damn long time - Raman and Shagun's marriage didn't even last ten years, which should say something.

In marriage and in love, there have to be sacrifices made - that's what defines true love and companionship; not heady lust or spoken promises, but actual compromise and sacrifice. Sacrifices - and not children - are what strengthen love and marriage. Fine, some of you may say that well, the possibility of never having biological children is too big a sacrifice. I say fine, yeah I can agree with that; if my parents brought home a guy who's sperm wasn't spermy enough, I'd probably not agree to marry him either. But again, Ishita and Subbu were together for an entire DECADE. Subbu threw away the tangible and real love in Ishita because he cared more instead for his potential offspring, who hadn't even been thought of yet.

And fine, even if he truly felt that infertility was something he could not sacrifice, he was wrong in ditching Ishita so callously, right when she was already reeling from the knowledge that she could never be a biological mother. She needed if not his love but atleast his support at that trying time - at the very least, their breaking up could have been conducted in a gentler manner.

I would not say Subbu was "never" wrong - he may not be wrong in the fact that kids can strengthen marriages, but he was definitely wrong in the way he treated/and allowed his mother to treat Ishita. That's not how you act with your ~true~ love, the girl you were with for 10 years and were about to get married to.

Yes, Raman is a fool and an idiot, however I don't think he's like Subbu. Besides the pre-marriage episodes where they both hated each other and taunted one another with insults they knew would hurt, Raman has never made Ishita's infertility an issue. Yes, he was mad with her when the whole pregnancy thing happened but he wasn't mad because she couldn't get pregnant (like Subbu) - he was upset because he knew that the negative results would hurt both Ishita and his family. He quite clearly on several occasions calls her "Ruhi's Ma," and kudos to him because I don't think he ever even used the phrase "sauteli ma" on Ishita, just "ma."

In regards to Shagun, of course even after all the BS and crap they went through, Raman still must acknowledge Shagun as his children's birth mother. That acknowledgement is common decency and should not be equated with putting Ishita down. Regardless of the divorce and crap, Raman and Shagun must cooperate with one another and hold each other in some sort of importance because they DO have children together, a responsibility they will have to share or atleast communicate about for the rest of their lives. This connection even after their divorce doesn't at all - or shouldn't at all detract from Ishita's importance in Raman's life as his current wife or Ruhi's (real!) mother.

And while Raman does (rightfully) maintain Shagun's importance as a birthmother/care taker of his oldest child, he also gives Ishita the full rights and responsibility as Ruhi's mother - not *simply* as a stepmother, but as if Ishita herself gave birth to Ruhi. He never makes Ishita feel as if that just because she's a stepmother she has less rights over Ruhi than Shagun (and if he did, please correct me).

I identify as a feminist as well but I'd also like to just mention that wanting a man to be in your life doesn't make you any less of a feminist. Ishita is basically doing exactly what you're saying in your last paragraph; she's taking care of Ruhi by herself, is independent careerwise, and literally Raman (for now!) is just there to link her and Ruhi together. I also disagree that "if you can never give your spouse the happiness which he longs for i.e a child you can never be a wife in a true sense." You don't become husband and wife by having children - you become husband and wife by getting married. You become parents by having children.

Originally posted by: gems4emma

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">I'm sorry; I have to disagree. I was rewatching the old episodes last night actually and for me, Subbu is worse than Prateek.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Subbu was wrong because he could not stand up to his mother - as opposed to Bala, who tactfully balances both his in-laws/Vandu/and mother. The fact that Subbu was willing to throw away a ten-year old relationship that quickly was despicable. It would be completely understandable if it Subbu and Ishita were engaged/dating for a shorter time and then they found out about her infertility. But ten years is a damn long time - Raman and Shagun's marriage didn't even last ten years, which should say something.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">In marriage and in love, there have to be sacrifices made - that's what defines true love and companionship; not heady lust or spoken promises, but actual compromise and sacrifice. Sacrifices - and not children - are what strengthen love and marriage. Fine, some of you may say that well, the possibility of never having biological children is too big a sacrifice. I say fine, yeah I can agree with that; if my parents brought home a guy who's sperm wasn't spermy enough, I'd probably not agree to marry him either. But again, Ishita and Subbu were together for an entire DECADE. Subbu threw away the tangible and real love in Ishita because he cared more instead for his potential offspring, who hadn't even been thought of yet.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">And fine, even if he truly felt that infertility was something he could not sacrifice, he was wrong in ditching Ishita so callously, right when she was already reeling from the knowledge that she could never be a biological mother. She needed if not his love but atleast his support at that trying time - at the very least, their breaking up could have been conducted in a gentler manner.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">I would not say Subbu was "never" wrong - he may not be wrong in the fact that kids can strengthen marriages, but he was definitely wrong in the way he treated/and allowed his mother to treat Ishita. That's not how you act with your ~true~ love, the girl you were with for 10 years and were about to get married to.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Yes, Raman is a fool and an idiot, however I don't think he's like Subbu. Besides the pre-marriage episodes where they both hated each other and taunted one another with insults they knew would hurt, Raman has never made Ishita's infertility an issue. Yes, he was mad with her when the whole pregnancy thing happened but he wasn't mad because she couldn't get pregnant (like Subbu) - he was upset because he knew that the negative results would hurt both Ishita and his family. He quite clearly on several occasions calls her "Ruhi's Ma," and kudos to him because I don't think he ever even used the phrase "sauteli ma" on Ishita, just "ma."</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">In regards to Shagun, of course even after all the BS and crap they went through, Raman still must acknowledge Shagun as his children's birth mother. That acknowledgement is common decency and should not be equated with putting Ishita down. Regardless of the divorce and crap, Raman and Shagun must cooperate with one another and hold each other in some sort of importance because they DO have children together, a responsibility they will have to share or atleast communicate about for the rest of their lives. This connection even after their divorce doesn't at all - or shouldn't at all detract from Ishita's importance in Raman's life as his current wife or Ruhi's (real!) mother.</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">And while Raman does (rightfully) maintain Shagun's importance as a birthmother/care taker of his oldest child, he also gives Ishita the full rights and responsibility as Ruhi's mother - not *simply* as a stepmother, but as if Ishita herself gave birth to Ruhi. He never makes Ishita feel as if that just because she's a stepmother she has less rights over Ruhi than Shagun (and if he did, please correct me).</font>

<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">I identify as a feminist as well but I'd also like to just mention that wanting a man to be in your life doesn't make you any less of a feminist. Ishita is basically doing exactly what you're saying in your last paragraph; she's taking care of Ruhi by herself, is independent careerwise, and literally Raman (for now!) is just there to link her and Ruhi together. I also disagree that "if you can never give your spouse the happiness which he longs for i.e a child you can never be a wife in a true sense." You don't become husband and wife by having children - you become husband and wife by getting married. You become parents by having children.</font>

Originally posted by: yyy

I have never supported Subbu and his actions .I have just mentioned that Subbu is better than Raman as he has the guts to voice his opinion .In my post I have mentioned that how the men in YHM think .

Action speaks louder than words and time and again Raman's action has proved that he considers Shagun above Ishita as she was able to give him a child whereas Ishita is not capable of .Even during the bench scene he said he never meant that way and he didnt explain what he actually meant as he didnt have an answer for that.

I totally agree with you that he needs to intereact with Shagun for the sake of Adi but he doesnt have to hide that from his second's wife who is mature enough to understand that .If Shagun was just Adi's mother he would not be so effected by her and her actions and would not use Ishita to make her jealous.You dont need to hug your child's mother to reassure her.

It's Ruhi who has considers Ishita as her own mother and it has nothing got to do with Raman's approval.