KJo killed off Anushka in Ae Dil Hai Mushkil for not loving Ranbir - Page 15

Originally posted by: Jazzkapur

actually alizeh said that she divorced Ali becoz of his bewafai (betrayal). It was ali who said that she left him becoz of ayan obviously he didn't want to tell that he cheated her

No. I remember that distinctly because it was very well put by Anushka. Ali had cheated on her in college, and he kept travelling on his job so she kept distrusting his interactions with women and it really effed up her head. So she said that uske andar ki nari shakti jaag gayi and she was done with it.

Ali's stance was that Ayan messed up with her head.

Those were the visual cues.

Edited by Blueeeee - 4 months ago

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

Ok, that's what I remembered as well that he never gave up his old ways. That means we have another toxic male character, because not only was he a perpetual cheater, but then he gives false hope to Ayan by telling him that the marriage failed because Alizeh loved Ayan more, which further fuels Ayan's belief that he can force Alizeh to love him if he sticks around long enough. No wonder Karan deleted that deleted scene where Fawad's Ali specifically states that he has no jealousy of Alizeh's friendship with Ayan and Alizeh feels a bit annoyed by his lack of a reaction. It's clear she was more into him than he was into her.

This film was so weird with how it tried to establish jealousy as a form. Love is not jealous, folks.

I do think Alizeh jumped to marry Ali too soon. Like their relationship whatever it was, never was established or explored. But Alizeh ending up dead because she didn't love an entitled piece of shit like Ayaan is too fùcked up.

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

No. I remember that distinctly because it was very well put by Anushka. Ali had cheated on her in college, and he kept travelling on his job so she kept distrusting his interactions with women and it really effed up her head. So she said that uske andar ki nari shakti jaag gayi and she was done with it.

Ali's stance was that Ayan messed up with her head.

Those were the visual cues.

i remember correctly. just before that nari wali line, she said 'mai toh uski bewafai bhi sehan karne wali thi but mere andar ki khuddar aurat jaag gayi' that means he cheated on her after marriage

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

This film was so weird with how it tried to establish jealousy as a form. Love is not jealous, folks.

I do think Alizeh jumped to marry Ali too soon. Like their relationship whatever it was, never was established or explored. But Alizeh ending up dead because she didn't love an entitled piece of shit like Ayaan is too fùcked up.

Karan was glorifying jealousy as love. He's said the favorite scene from all his films is the dinner scene from KANK. Before that was the ballet scene where both couples are trying to make the other jealous. In reviews, that scene especially got praise. I feel like the dinner scene in ADHM was an attempt to combine both of those scenes and recapture the magic except it didn't work.

I don't remember how Ali got back into Alizeh's life but considering how damaged she was at the beginning from her breakup with him, it also felt like she let him back into her life too soon and jumped straight into marriage without considering that there probably hadn't been any growth on his part to justify taking him back. And sure enough, he reverts back to his old patterns during marriage. 

And the other problem was that KJo never really gave enough focus to the Alizeh/Ali relationship in the movie. In other love triangle films like KKHH, KHNH, and KANK, we get to see all the relationships get even amounts of screentimes. The problem in this film is that everything is from Ayan's POV so we see him with Alizeh and with Saba but we get only drops of information about Alizeh with Ali and just a cameo with Saba and her ex-husband. 

I don't even think this was because Fawad's part was cut out as much as KJo never gave it much focus in the first place so there was nothing to cut out. He used Fawad's Ali as an obstacle failing to realize how such an integral part of Alizeh's life and view on relationships has not been fleshed out. I wonder if he also made this lacking because of his own crush on Fawad and feeling that the more we see of Fawad, the more audiences would root for him instead of Ayan, who was KJo's avatar. People already said Aishwarya (and to a lesser extent SRK) stole the film from the leads, and that may have happened yet again with more Fawad. As it is, in the final film, he's really a cipher of a character with no personality or anything except that he's a cheater so we're free to dislike him and root against him.

Edited by RaniPreityAish - 4 months ago

Originally posted by: Jazzkapur

i remember correctly. just before that nari wali line, she said 'mai toh uski bewafai bhi sehan karne wali thi but mere andar ki khuddar aurat jaag gayi' that means he cheated on her after marriage

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

No. I remember that distinctly because it was very well put by Anushka. Ali had cheated on her in college, and he kept travelling on his job so she kept distrusting his interactions with women and it really effed up her head. So she said that uske andar ki nari shakti jaag gayi and she was done with it.

Ali's stance was that Ayan messed up with her head.

Those were the visual cues.

I think both of you are right. This is what I remember from the film as well (and granted, it seems like there's a lot I don't remember now) that the divorce was because he kept cheating on her and she finally had enough.

I think Ali would not be a reliable narrator. If he's a cheater and clearly never learned his lesson, he's not going to blame himself. He's going to blame Alizeh and Ayan and say that Ayan caused problems because he loved more than Ali was capable of loving Alizeh. It's classic toxic behavior to displace guilt onto someone else so he's not at fault. I'm just surprised he did no go as far as claiming that Alizeh was crazy for always suspecting him when he's given her every reason to be suspicious. That's the other line people like this love to resort to, claiming the other is crazy and their jealousy is unfounded but will one day cause them to cheat out of frustration.

Like in Haan Maine Bhi Pyaar Kiya, where Karishma is always suspicious of Abhishek. When he finally does cheat, the blame comes onto her because she was always so jealous that it prompted him to do what she suspected him of doing all along. Cheaters love to play this blame game to clear themselves of any fault.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

Karan was glorifying jealousy as love. He's said the favorite scene from all his films is the dinner scene from KANK. Before that was the ballet scene where both couples are trying to make the other jealous. In reviews, that scene especially got praise. I feel like the dinner scene in ADHM was an attempt to combine both of those scenes and recapture the magic except it didn't work.

I don't remember how Ali got back into Alizeh's life but considering how damaged she was at the beginning from her breakup with him, it also felt like she let him back into her life too soon and jumped straight into marriage without considering that there probably hadn't been any growth on his part to justify taking him back. And sure enough, he reverts back to his old patterns during marriage. 

And the other problem was that KJo never really gave enough focus to the Alizeh/Ali relationship in the movie. In other love triangle films like KKHH, KHNH, and KANK, we get to see all the relationships get even amounts of screentimes. The problem in this film is that everything is from Ayan's POV so we see him with Alizeh and with Saba but we get only drops of information about Alizeh with Ali and just a cameo with Saba and her ex-husband. 

I don't even think this was because Fawad's part was cut out as much as KJo never gave it much focus in the first place so there was nothing to cut out. He used Fawad's Ali as an obstacle failing to realize how such an integral part of Alizeh's life and view on relationships has not been fleshed out. I wonder if he also made this lacking because of his own crush on Fawad and feeling that the more we see of Fawad, the more audiences would root for him instead of Ayan, who was KJo's avatar. 

Okay, it might absolutely be that Ali's character reverted back to his shitty ways post marriage but it also is that the visual cues suggested Ayaan messing with Alizeh's head. There was a PG-13 steamy scene between Alizeh and Ali after either Channa Mereya or the dinner scene where Ali is engaging in foreplay and Alizeh is shown conflicted or just lost before returning to Ali's actions.

Ali wasn't shown to be a philanderer yet  

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

Okay, it might absolutely be that Ali's character reverted back to his shitty ways post marriage but it also is that the visual cues suggested Ayaan messing with Alizeh's head. There was a PG-13 steamy scene between Alizeh and Ali after either Channa Mereya or the dinner scene where Ali is engaging in foreplay and Alizeh is shown conflicted or just lost before returning to Ali's actions.

Ali wasn't shown to be a philanderer yet  

Just to clarify, do you mean to say that Ayan's actions and feelings were influencing Alizeh and making her have doubts about who she really should be with? She was starting to question if Ayan was the better choice for her over Ali? 

We don't see Ali cheating then but with his job, of being a DJ frequently around women and traveling (and I don't remember if he was traveling when he was married to Alizeh), I wonder if he wasn't even cheating then. We only are told that he did after Alizeh and Ayan are no longer friends after their fight, but people like him are very crafty and likely never changed at all. It's more likely that Alizeh only caught him later on but his conduct never changed. Unless you think he did change but reverted to his old ways because Alizeh's conflicted feelings for Ayan were making her distant from Ali so he acted out by cheating. I guess from his POV, that could also be true that he felt he could never compete with Ayan, who was the true love of Alizeh's life, even if for her, that true love was platonic and thus more meaningful. 

But then again, he needs to ask himself why she views this love of friendship as more meaningful than romantic love. It's because he could not stop cheating and she realized she could not trust him anymore or depend on him anymore. It's this that caused her to glorify Ayan's friendship over her marriage with Ali because she had lost faith in romance. 

Ironically enough, if she was not so damaged from Ali's cheating, it's possible that she could have genuinely fallen in love with Ayan as she would have no hang-ups or fears about romantic love. We don't know though, only that KJo felt that whatever reason she could not love him, it was enough to warrant a punishment of death. And to make it worse, KJo literally said that Alizeh not loving Ayan back filled her with so much poison and bad energy as to cause the cancer.

Originally posted by: Clochette

I liked Ranbir as a singer in the movie and also Anushka's, Aish's and Fawad's performances but I disliked the story.

I feel like most people would have preferred the film revolve around these three instead. I know Karan said that he had wanted to work with Aish for so long that afterwards, he felt a supporting role was not enough and she deserved a lead role from him. And I'm surprised, considering how much in love he was with Fawad at the time, that he didn't give him a full role like in Kapoor & Sons.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

Just to clarify, do you mean to say that Ayan's actions and feelings were influencing Alizeh and making her have doubts about who she really should be with? She was starting to question if Ayan was the better choice for her over Ali? 

We don't see Ali cheating then but with his job, of being a DJ frequently around women and traveling (and I don't remember if he was traveling when he was married to Alizeh), I wonder if he wasn't even cheating then. We only are told that he did after Alizeh and Ayan are no longer friends after their fight, but people like him are very crafty and likely never changed at all. It's more likely that Alizeh only caught him later on but his conduct never changed. Unless you think he did change but reverted to his old ways because Alizeh's conflicted feelings for Ayan were making her distant from Ali so he acted out by cheating. I guess from his POV, that could also be true that he felt he could never compete with Ayan, who was the true love of Alizeh's life, even if for her, that true love was platonic and thus more meaningful. 

But then again, he needs to ask himself why she views this love of friendship as more meaningful than romantic love. It's because he could not stop cheating and she realized she could not trust him anymore or depend on him anymore. It's this that caused her to glorify Ayan's friendship over her marriage with Ali because she had lost faith in romance. 

Ironically enough, if she was not so damaged from Ali's cheating, it's possible that she could have genuinely fallen in love with Ayan as she would have no hang-ups or fears about romantic love. We don't know though, only that KJo felt that whatever reason she could not love him, it was enough to warrant a punishment of death. And to make it worse, KJo literally said that Alizeh not loving Ayan back filled her with so much poison and bad energy as to cause the cancer.

I absolutely do not blame Alizeh for any of Ali's actions at all. It is that Ali's actions were not shown at all. It was clearly said that Alizeh was getting very unhealthy in her insecurity about Ali's interaction with other women, so she took a decision for herself to distance herself from that situation. Kudos to her, divorce should be encouraged. I think it would have been clearer if they had shown that Ali explicitly cheated on her. The visual cues were all messed up. The foreplay scene is so misplaced because Alizeh is not even slightly attracted/conflicted about Ayaan. She doesn't romantically love him from beginning to end. 

I think the narrative was that Ayaan's passion made her realize that her marriage was lacking and Ali's behaviour (whatever it was) drove the point home. I think that explains the deleted scene where Ali is not jealous. Also Ali's confrontation with Ayaan.

 It is again conflicting and sorta sad because Ayaan's behaviour is just creepy and manipulative.

That's why I said ki this marriage and/or divorce is weakest link of the narrative. It is just lazy writing.

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

I absolutely do not blame Alizeh for any of Ali's actions at all. It is that Ali's actions were not shown at all. It was clearly said that Alizeh was getting very unhealthy in her insecurity about Ali's interaction with other women, so she took a decision for herself to distance herself from that situation. Kudos to her, divorce should be encouraged. I think it would have been clearer if they had shown that Ali explicitly cheated on her. The visual cues were all messed up. The foreplay scene is so misplaced because Alizeh is not even slightly attracted/conflicted about Ayaan. She doesn't romantically love him from beginning to end. 

I think the narrative was that Ayaan's passion made her realize that her marriage was lacking and Ali's behaviour (whatever it was) drove the point home. I think that explains the deleted scene where Ali is not jealous. Also Ali's confrontation with Ayaan.

 It is again conflicting and sorta sad because Ayaan's behaviour is just creepy and manipulative.

That's why I said ki this marriage and/or divorce is weakest link of the narrative. It is just lazy writing.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were blaming Alizeh. I understand what you mean now that seeing Ayan's passion for her, even if she didn't reciprocate, made her realize Ali does not feel the same way about her. I think it was a classic case where one partner loved the other more in a relationship so there was an imbalance of love. Which also explains her annoyed reaction about her husband not being jealous about her friendship.