Second Chances and Forgivenesss - What is your take on this? - Page 2

I would disagree with you on the point that it was not consent. In no way it was rape. It was ONS by every mean with the consent of both the parties. May be in katha's pov it was not free consent, it was because of her "majboori" but her majboori was not clear to Viaan. He even asked her the reason but she didn't tell him. If Viaan was aware of  katha's majboori and then he would have asked for ONS for giving financial help then that would have been defined as coercion or rape.

Viaan was genuinely hoping she wont come and he even felt her discomfort. Thats why like a gentleman he asked her to go if she is not ready. But katha had to do it so she changed her demeanor into being confident about her decision. Viaan even repented as soon as the night ended. He genuinely felt bad for her and for himself also. Just like katha is not that kind of girl who would sleep with someone for money similarly Viaan is also not that kind of guy who randomly sleeps around with girls and pay them. If that was his agenda, i.e. to use katha for sexual favour, then also, he could have got any other girl, much hotter, much willing, who would have slept with him for even lesser amount of money. But Viaan didn't do it, in fact he hates such kind of girls. 

Katha confuses Viaan. On one side, she is this righteous, principled girl and on other hand she demands one crore loan from him on the very next day of being permanent. This is an unreasonable demand knowing that their project depends upon her. So what options does Viaan kind of guy have. Viaan who's past made him bitter about women. Viaan who's scared to trust people. For him, katha showed her ray of hope then blows it off completely. What he is supposed to do? So what if he wanted to test her for what she portrays she is? The result was in the hands of katha. She could have denied or she could have told the truth. But she was so strong willed about her decision for not showing her vulnerability to Viaan however she just literally begged in front of kailash garewal forgetting her dignity. What is this if not double standards?

Yes, Viaan did wrong in judging her because of financial need but then didn't katha did same to him by judging that he won't understand her problem and so she didn't tell him truth. If to Viaan, every woman is a gold digger then aint for katha every rich businessman is rude, arrogant and unhelpful? Thats why she hid about her kid' s responsibility right?

Viaan, clearly gave her many chances to back out from their deal but she was adamant. Yes, she had strong reason for being so but she cant put all blame on Viaan. She, in her right mind, assessed her situation practically and then proceeded with it. So it cant be termed as coercion or rape of any kind.

And she keeps saying that she is not guilty for it. That itself makes it clear that it was indeed her decision, for whatever reasons, but it was her decision to go with it and she is not guilty for it. So how a decision for which someone is so clear about, can be deduced to non consent?

Originally posted by: Rosh4rose

Interesting 

Repentance.... second chance 

When it comes to repentance  according to the Viaan & Katha’s story ... Personally I hold the same opinion Viaan is not committed “ sin” it is if it was s rape or involved a minor girl!  

s*x ( IC) can’t be sin that we live in this century out look of dark ages must change ( purely my view)

He is wrong , was judgement towards women , but it formed from past experiences

Our life exp create & mould us to the humans we are!

Trauma in the childhood can stay with the person through out life of a person an create havoc ! Viaan’s Mom without knowing how to deal with her life threw him in to a whirl pool of unsettled emotions

That is why “ He is basically expressing or over doing it “

At the same time it is not Katha’s duty to pull him out of it 

She too had a choice to walk out from the room ir could have told him that her son is dying ! She too made her “ ego” above truth .

See the their relationship is founded in weak ground 

She has no one ounce of pity to Viasn that his money saved her son’s life where as that MrGarwal humiliated her is given free pass ....without even an apology with Mrs.Gareal’s words ... I still wish that man will say sorry 

If he repent in true sense she can forgive him since he is the only one who gave her “money “ after all her som was saved in time ... At times I am annoyed with Karha now !

In general “ forgiveness “

My point of view ( purely mine) 

It is fine to forgive , when we forgive our souls will be healed ... we are not carrying the “ negativity “any more !

I can relate only with my experiences 

According to me “ forgiving “ is good and great but “ “ forgetting” is bad 

It is impossible to see the person's heart who is repenting !

Once happened it can always “ repeat “ if not automatically the suspicion will set it . It is a simple psychological fact 

If most of us shown a rope in the dark or pic of it many will connect it to a “ snake “ because that is our brain’s in put !

Same thing every conflict mind will start suspect “

Is she or he is doing it again! Or  Am I being fooled “

Definitely not ITV sacrifice addicted dumb FL rest will think 

Life is stranger than fiction !!! Every story is unique since every human is unique 

For me 

Forgiveness is great and  it is healing own self 

Forgetting the same  incident is foolishness .. 

forgive and move on without wishing the other person involved any thing bad ... If can’t wish them good luck don’t “ curse “ them either . They too are acting out of what there being directed by their experiences !

Wrote too much 🤣 

@bold i wanted to mention this point. Totally agree with this. Mental trauma, past experience do play an important role in making a person's character.

I wonder if situation was reversed. If katha had been in Viaan's position then I am sure we wouldn't have been debating whether it was rape or consent. We would just have been bashing Viaan for being unrealistically righteous and secretive.

We talk about equality and all but still i feel when the woman card is played our every logical thought goes out of window. We condemn patriarchy and chauvinism but dont understand the true meaning of feminism also. Most of us in general thinks feminism is about women's supremacy over man but in reality it just talk about equality of opportunity in every field.

@red this is something i was appalled at. Kailash literally told katha to die with her son. That man was so judgemental towards her for several past years. To her, she was always gold digger. It was due to his attitude that kind of lead to adi's accident. And katha forget her dignity when she was begging him for money but  when it comes to Viaan, she suddenly feels she being taken advantage off, that she was being judged by him and what he did, no matter even if it was with her consent, is unforgiving. 

Now that her son is ok, kailash suddenly become old dadaji craving for his grandson and he is forgiven without even asking any questions. He didn't even apologize, didn't even repent, didnt once felt guilty for putting her to so much but Viaan, who actually helped her out, paid that very money because of which she is seeing her son alive. Viaan who is repenting from the depth of his heart, who is guilty, who has asked for her forgiveness for like gazillion times, katha feels he is not worth forgiving. Wow! Thats some double standards.

Originally posted by: Anupreeya

@RED

I think you missed the point. In 24, the daughter was being dragged and to save her the mother went in willingly. To a spectator, it wouldn't seem like she was resisting because she didn't physically resist, but that's not consent is what I am trying to say.

I understand that and you are right in that case the mother is made to do something without her consent to save her daughter. The problem is with the intention in this case. Viaan did not have an intention to rape her whereas in the mother daughter scenario in 24, the intention of those people was to clearly sexually assault someone without actually letting their voice be heard. 

And yes you are right, Vihaan didn't blackmail her or pressurise her directly, her pressure point was to save her child but he did have a role in creating that pressure point when he suggested the transaction. For him, he always gave her a way out, from his perspective. But it wasn't so in her perspective.

And as to why she didn't say something about the real reason, I haven't watched all the episodes yet, but it is shown that she and her friend knowingly his the single mother thing as people might have bias and not hire her etc, which is true to an extent in real life as well. And to this point, watch the original series scene if possible. This question is raised there, the male lead asks,"Why didn't you tell me?". She replied, "Did you ask? No. You assumed and put the terms and conditions before me. How could I say anything."

Interesting I haven't seen this yet will take a look. But in this show I believe Katha clearly mentions that she is single when she was hired so everyone just believed her so no one was assuming anything, she just hid the truth and made everyone believe that she is single. 

In my point of view, since Vihaan didn't directly pressurise her, he is redeemable from my point of view, but I would still maintain I can see how so from her point of view. But as you said, viewpoints differ.

Originally posted by: Anupreeya

@RED

I think it's a common theme across all religions and there are numerous examples of it. One that immediately comes to mind is of Valmiki, the author of Ramayan, who was a cruel dacoit who made his living by killing people whoever passed through the forest he lived in and stealing off them. He reformed to be a revered rishi Another one is also related to Ramayan, Viswamitra, a cruel and egoistic king who butchered the family of Rushi Vashisht later became a revered rishi, respected by generations to come.

@GREEN

Like I said in my introduction post, this theme of transformation is kind of my achilees heel and I always look for genuine apology scenes and transformation of charecters in any show or movie I watch. And Vihaan's potrayal of repentance and that apology scene it touched my heart in thousand different ways. But that is when I think from a third person's perspective. The moment I step into Katha's shoes, my perspective really changes and there are multiple reasons for that.

------------------Unpopular Opinion Alert---------------------

First of all, I don't agree with the term "One Night Stand". It would have been that if there was genuine consent from both parties. There wasn't. Atleast not from Katha's viewpoint as much as I have understood her in that scene (We will come to Vihaan's perspective later on). She said yes but it was under coersion, under a condition, would that really count as consent in the real sense. Atleast not to me. She shivered to the core at his touch, even he felt that. That's why he said that she could back out. But could she, no, she had to endure whatever may come to save her son. And yes, she endured, she beared him and that's why she calls it a "kaali raat (darkest night of her life)". How can it be consent if you have to gather all your strength to bear something? It can't be. For me, it was rape, just that she consented to being raped to save her son, she consented not to resist, that's all, nothing more. And this can't be termed as a one night stand. And somewhere Vihaan's guilt reflects that he is aware of this, he is aware of the depth of his wrongdoing (atleast that's my read, I could be wrong and the makers aren't trying to show this).

Just to provide context to what I said, in the series 24, there was scene where a bunch of goons take over an airport and trap the passengers inside. One of the goons drags a girl to another room to rape her. The mother of that girl seeing no other option (everyone is held at gunpoint), asks the going to take her instead, promising she wouldn't make a noise. To save her daughter, she gives herself up. Can this be counted as consent? No. Later it turns out that she was two months pregnant when she was raped, so when a doctor checks her up later that day, she asks, "I was raped, will that affect my pregnancy?"

So, my point is coerced consent is not consent. And to sum up as a spectator, yes I can forgive him, but I can't see how in Katha's shoes, I could forgive him. For this case, if it were any other damage done, may be, but such a deep damage to you, I don't see how one can see his face and not relive the trauma.

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Agree with you. This was something which I wanted to tell but could not make any posts due to lack of time.

What happened cannot be called as ONS. Viaan asked Katha to spend the night with him in exchange of the money.And Katha agreed because this was the last and only option for her. Maybe she could have told the truth to Viaan but I think she was scared. She wants to forget about that night. But Viaan is not allowing. If Viaan was only testing her then at least in the hotel room he could have asked her why she needed the money? But he just assumed that she is a gold digger and went ahead. It is very difficult for both of them to forget that night . Katha may forgive him and may also fall in love with him but the opinion which she has of him will be buried deep inside her mind which will create problems in their relationship. 

Originally posted by: Bechain_Bulbul

I would disagree with you on the point that it was not consent. In no way it was rape. It was ONS by every mean with the consent of both the parties. May be in katha's pov it was not free consent, it was because of her "majboori" but her majboori was not clear to Viaan. He even asked her the reason but she didn't tell him the reason. If Viaan was aware of  katha's majboori and then he would have asked for ONS for giving financial help then that would have been defined as coercion or rape.

Viaan was genuinely hoping she wont come and he even felt her discomfort. Thats why like a gentleman he asked her to go if she is not ready. But katha had to do it so she changed her demeanor into being confident about her decision. Viaan even repented as soon as the night ended. He genuinely felt bad for her and for himself also. Just like katha is not that lind of girl who would sleep with someone for money similarly Viaan is also that kind of guy who randomly sleeps around with girls and pay them. If that was his agenda, i.e. to use katha for sexual favour, then also, he could have got any other girl, much hotter, much willing, who would have slept with him for even lesser amount of money. But Viaan didn't do it, in fact he hates such kind of girls. 

Katha confuses Viaan. On one side, she is this righteous, principled girl and on other hand she demands one crore loan from him on the very next day of being permanent. This is an unreasonable demand knowing that their project depends upon her. So what options does Viaan kind of guy have. Viaan who's past made him bitter about women. Viaan who's scared to trust people. For him, katha showed her ray of hope then blows it off completely. What he is supposed to do? So what if he wanted to test her for what she portrays she is? The result was in the hands of katha. She could have denied or she could have told the truth. But she was so strong willed about her decision for not showing her vulnerability to Viaan however she just literally begged in front of kailash garewal forgetting her dignity. What is this if not double standards?

Yes, Viaan did wrong in judging her because of financial need but then didn't katha did same to him by judging that he won't understand her problem and so she didn't tell him truth. If to Viaan, every woman is a gold digger then aint for katha every rich businessman is rude, arrogant and unhelpful? Thats why he hid about her kid' s responsibility right?

Viaan, clearly gave her many chances to back out from their deal but she was adamant. Yes, she had strong reason for being so but she cant put all blame on Viaan. She, in her right mind, assessed her situation practically and then proceeded with it. So it cant be termed as coercion or rape of any kind.

And she keeps saying that she is not guilty for it. That itself makes it clear that it was indeed her decision, for whatever reasons, but it was her decision to go with it and she is not guilty for it. So how a decision for which someone is so clear about, can be deduced to non consent?

No one can say in any situation they walked in with willingness that he is not guilty 

That is what Katha is doing they shared a night willing or not willing it will be there 

We can erase past , words spoken or the comments and stories we make on social media .. we can delete them but effects of it never goes away

They had one ONS .. she is mad at him .. fine .. she was helpless , wanted to save her dying son!

First place ..  She lied to get a job , she could have given a true biodata ! Or could have told him the truth why she needed the money !

That is what “ Truth and trust “ it is very important in every aspect of life 

“ Ethics “ she didn’t want to cheat Earth Con witn Pyramid but getting job at Earth Con she gave wrong personal info problem started there it self ...Company demanded according to it 

Same time there is no justification got Viaan’s ugly proposal of ONS he absolutely had mo right to “ test or Judge “

Then again Katha ... let any one it is ... “not even saying a word anger to that Mr , Gharwal who wished her son’s death asked her to die with her son

Age or being parent& dadu  figure doesn’t given any one a right to ill treat or curse others 

Katha is a  kind of fine with it 

She should be fare ... if she want to preach about “ ethics “

I totally agree with you 

Originally posted by: Rosh4rose

No one can say in any situation they walked in with willingness that he is not guilty 

That is what Katha is doing they shared a night willing or not willing it will be there 

We can erase past , words spoken or the comments and stories we make on social media .. we can delete them but effects of it never goes away

They had one ONS .. she is mad at him .. fine .. she was helpless , wanted to save her dying son!

First place ..  She lied to get a job , she could have given a true biodata ! Or could have told him the truth why she needed the money !

That is what “ Truth and trust “ it is very important in every aspect of life 

“ Ethics “ she didn’t want to cheat Earth Con witn Pyramid but getting job at Earth Con she gave wrong personal info problem started there it self ...Company demanded according to it 

Same time there is no justification got Viaan’s ugly proposal of ONS he absolutely had mo right to “ test or Judge “

Then again Katha ... let any one it is ... “not even saying a word anger to that Mr , Gharwal who wished her son’s death asked her to die with her son

Age or being parent& dadu  figure doesn’t given any one a right to ill treat or curse others 

Katha is a  kind of fine with it 

She should be fare ... if she want to preach about “ ethics “

I totally agree with you 

@bold yes, this is another valid point. Katha's righteousness is so selective. Her principles dont allow her to take pyramid's offer, wont allow her to use influence to get her son's file in priority over others in NGOs, wont allow her to be vulnerable in front of Viaan and reveal the real reason for which wanted a crore. 

But same principles dont come in her way when she lies about her family situation to get a job, when she literally begs to kailash garewal, when she conveniently forgives the very same kailash without even an ounce of anger towards that man or asking for clarification let alone apology. But she puts viaan everytime to a guilt trip for taking advantage of her situation when he was not even aware of whole situation and has apologized multiple times for it.

Both the characters have their own flaws. Both are right and both are wrong at the same time. Both have their own shortcomings and attitudes. Whatever happened between them cant be blamed on any one of them. But the thing is or atleast what i feel is that since katha is portrayed as helpless mother, so everyone is conveniently or mercifully forgiving and forgetting her part of mistakes but viaan being a quintessential rich arrogant business man bearing all the brunt.

Yes both characters have their own flaws 

... yes “ selective righteousness is very troublesome “

That person will always forget to find fault in their actions

They think “ righteousness belong to them only”

The same points will surface later in their life 

The plates will turn Katha will be shown being “ judgmental  “ towards Viaan 

Yes, in my opinion katha is nearing something which can be called "entitled righteousness". Dont know if that's really a thing or not.😆

These kind of people thinks that they should be worshipped because of their righteousness. They accuse others of being judgemental but actually they are the one judging everyone everytime.

There is one movie of Rajkumar Rao. I guess its name was Newton. Rajkumar is very honest and righteous man in the movie. There is a dialogue in the movie where one person says to rajkumar-

"Tumhe ghamand hai apne imandar hone par"

Raj- haan toh? Aajkal ki duniya mein imandar hona bahut badi baat hai. Nahi hona chahiye ghamand is quality pe?

Person- bilkul nahi. Imandari achhi hai. Lekin ye to tumhari jimmedari hai, tumse expect hi kiya jata hai ki tum imandar bano. tum bas apni jimmedari nibha rahe ho isme ghamand ki kya baat hai.

Something on these lines.

First things first. Forgiveness is over-rated. It is easy to say that forgiveness gives you freedom and man ki shanti. But how can you forgive someone who destroyed your life? One doesn't need to forgive their abuser. Imo, it is the right of the abused to hold grudges and hate for their abusers.

Coming to Viaan-Katha situation. Like Viaan said, it was a pure business transaction. Katha sold a service in exchange for money. This is very legal in almost all progressive countries, including India. It is Katha's autonomy to choose who to sleep with and with what conditions. While the point stands, coerced consent is not a consent, Katha was not coerced. She wasn't told that she will be killed, fired, demoted, blackmailed etc if she said no. She was given a trade off where she had complete choice of saying no. The example that you stated was a clear cut case of threatening which makes the consent void. No such threatening here, so the consent stands. The only situation where consent could have been void would be if Viaan knew about Aarav's cancer.

Not everything one does is enthusiastic. People keep doing jobs that they hate because they have bills to pay. No one calls that slavery. 

Regarding this show i had a different opinion earlier and now I have a different opinion .

According to me it was wrong on Vian's part to propose something like this but by accepting the terms and conditions and more than that not leaving even when Vian asked her to leave if uncomfortable Katha doesnt have the right to call Vian Paapi or Bhagwaan ko kya mooh dikhaoge ,she can be angry or can never forgive him ,she has every right .

Yesterday episode i agree with everything Katha said but she can't treat Vian as criminal because she agreed to it. 

I know many people will jump at me for saying this but she is completely fine with her FIL who knew everything still did not even give her the loan ,(technically Aarav had rights to his share to FIL's property) but she had issues with Vian who did not have information and committed a mistake 

In general second chances should be given at one's own risk bcoz second time betrayal makes one feel miserable and stupid