Second Chances and Forgivenesss - What is your take on this?

Posted: 1 years ago

Just tryna strike a meaningful conversation and increase forum activity. 

So for anyone that hasn't read the bible, there is a verse in there which talks about how there is no sin that god can't forgive. What matters the most is acceptance of your sin and repentance. The only sin that will always remain a sin is your unbelief meaning not being truthful and avoiding the earnest acceptation of the sin. Once you truly confess your sins and it reaches god, he will forgive you at which point you are then born again and will be sensitive to that sin meaning you will never look to repeating the same sin again. Keeping that in mind, who are we as humans to judge someone's actions and hold grudges for the wrongdoings that they commit. 

Now I don't believe Viaan committed any sin but for the sake of simplicity lets say that Viaan's proposal of the ONS is a sin, let alone the action itself. If he can show that he's truly sorry in his confession and owns up to his actions and tries everything that he can on his pathway for repentance, I don't see why we as audience can't be accepting of him. Adding to that, if Katha does end up forgiving him I don't see why she can't give him a second chance because technically after his repentance track he will be a complete different individual. In fact, I would love to see Katha forgiving him if she truly feels accepting of Viaan's redemption. Sometimes our past actions may not be justifiable, but if one learns from it and ensures to apply that learning into their life, why can't they be forgiven? I personally believe that if someone has put in the effort and is aware of all of their deeds/mistakes/sins, they should get a second chance and forgiveness. What are your thoughts?

Edited by Twinklestar139 - 1 years ago
Posted: 1 years ago
Originally posted by Twinklestar139


Just tryna strike a meaningful conversation and increase forum activity. 

So for anyone that hasn't read the bible, there is a verse in there which talks about how there is no sin that god can't forgive. What matters the most is acceptance of your sin and repentance. The only sin that will always remain a sin is your unbelief meaning not being truthful and avoiding the earnest acceptation of the sin. Once you truly confess your sins and it reaches god, he will forgive you at which point you are then born again and will be sensitive to that sin meaning you will never look to repeating the same sin again. Keeping that in mind, who are we as humans to judge someone's actions and hold grudges for the wrongdoings that they commit. 

Now I don't believe Viaan committed any sin but for the sake of simplicity lets say that Viaan's proposal of the ONS is a sin, let alone the action itself. If he can show that he's truly sorry in his confession and owns up to his actions and tries everything that he can on his pathway for repentance, I don't see why we as audience can't be accepting of him. Adding to that, if Katha does end up forgiving him I don't see why she can't give him a second chance because technically after his repentance track he will be a complete different individual. In fact, I would love to see Katha forgiving him if she truly feels accepting of Viaan's redemption. Sometimes our past actions may not be justifiable, but if one learn's from it and ensures to apply that learning into their life, why can't they be forgiven? I personally believe that if someone has put in the effort and is aware of all of their deeds/mistakes/sins, they should get a second chance and forgiveness. What are your thoughts?

@RED

I think it's a common theme across all religions and there are numerous examples of it. One that immediately comes to mind is of Valmiki, the author of Ramayan, who was a cruel dacoit who made his living by killing people whoever passed through the forest he lived in and stealing off them. He reformed to be a revered rishi Another one is also related to Ramayan, Viswamitra, a cruel and egoistic king who butchered the family of Rushi Vashisht later became a revered rishi, respected by generations to come.


@GREEN

Like I said in my introduction post, this theme of transformation is kind of my achilees heel and I always look for genuine apology scenes and transformation of charecters in any show or movie I watch. And Vihaan's potrayal of repentance and that apology scene it touched my heart in thousand different ways. But that is when I think from a third person's perspective. The moment I step into Katha's shoes, my perspective really changes and there are multiple reasons for that.


------------------Unpopular Opinion Alert---------------------

First of all, I don't agree with the term "One Night Stand". It would have been that if there was genuine consent from both parties. There wasn't. Atleast not from Katha's viewpoint as much as I have understood her in that scene (We will come to Vihaan's perspective later on). She said yes but it was under coersion, under a condition, would that really count as consent in the real sense. Atleast not to me. She shivered to the core at his touch, even he felt that. That's why he said that she could back out. But could she, no, she had to endure whatever may come to save her son. And yes, she endured, she beared him and that's why she calls it a "kaali raat (darkest night of her life)". How can it be consent if you have to gather all your strength to bear something? It can't be. For me, it was rape, just that she consented to being raped to save her son, she consented not to resist, that's all, nothing more. And this can't be termed as a one night stand. And somewhere Vihaan's guilt reflects that he is aware of this, he is aware of the depth of his wrongdoing (atleast that's my read, I could be wrong and the makers aren't trying to show this).

Just to provide context to what I said, in the series 24, there was scene where a bunch of goons take over an airport and trap the passengers inside. One of the goons drags a girl to another room to rape her. The mother of that girl seeing no other option (everyone is held at gunpoint), asks the going to take her instead, promising she wouldn't make a noise. To save her daughter, she gives herself up. Can this be counted as consent? No. Later it turns out that she was two months pregnant when she was raped, so when a doctor checks her up later that day, she asks, "I was raped, will that affect my pregnancy?"

So, my point is coerced consent is not consent. And to sum up as a spectator, yes I can forgive him, but I can't see how in Katha's shoes, I could forgive him. For this case, if it were any other damage done, may be, but such a deep damage to you, I don't see how one can see his face and not relive the trauma.

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Edited by Anupreeya - 1 years ago
Posted: 1 years ago

Isn't that what life is? making mistakes, redeeming oneself and becoming a better person? 

As an audience, I don't think his actions are irreedemble provided he repents. People have done worse. I'm talking in the context of this show only.

It is all very fresh for  katha right now, but I hope she sees that even she did not tell the truth to Viaan, did not back out, did not try to reason with him. I understand her decision but a slight action from her could have turned this mess around. 

Posted: 1 years ago

Excellent post 👍🏼

This was not ONS which happens IRL where both parties are like no strings attached but want happiness. 

Katha.. her YES was not willingly given.. she to succumb in order to save her son by agreeing to sleep with Viaan so that she gets the money.  IMO, it’s a RAPE. 


I want Viaan to prove by his actions that he has changed rather than talking to Katha like a petulant child who says he’s not a murderer, he’s done wrong but he is still a good guy and that he wants her to forgive him. If redemption arc is shown well here, then surely Katha will forgive him one day.. 

Posted: 1 years ago
Originally posted by Anupreeya


@RED

I think it's a common theme across all religions and there are numerous examples of it. One that immediately comes to mind is of Valmiki, the author of Ramayan, who was a cruel dacoit who made his living by killing people whoever passed through the forest he lived in and stealing off them. He reformed to be a revered rishi Another one is also related to Ramayan, Viswamitra, a cruel and egoistic king who butchered the family of Rushi Vashisht later became a revered rishi, respected by generations to come.


@GREEN

Like I said in my introduction post, this theme of transformation is kind of my achilees heel and I always look for genuine apology scenes and transformation of charecters in any show or movie I watch. And Vihaan's potrayal of repentance and that apology scene it touched my heart in thousand different ways. But that is when I think from a third person's perspective. The moment I step into Katha's shoes, my perspective really changes and there are multiple reasons for that.


------------------Unpopular Opinion Alert---------------------

First of all, I don't agree with the term "One Night Stand". It would have been that if there was genuine consent from both parties. There wasn't. Atleast not from Katha's viewpoint as much as I have understood her in that scene (We will come to Vihaan's perspective later on). She said yes but it was under coersion, under a condition, would that really count as consent in the real sense. Atleast not to me. She shivered to the core at his touch, even he felt that. That's why he said that she could back out. But could she, no, she had to endure whatever may come to save her son. And yes, she endured, she beared him and that's why she calls it a "kaali raat (darkest night of her life)". How can it be consent if you have to gather all your strength to bear something? It can't be. For me, it was rape, just that she consented to being raped to save her son, she consented not to resist, that's all, nothing more. And this can't be termed as a one night stand. And somewhere Vihaan's guilt reflects that he is aware of this, he is aware of the depth of his wrongdoing (atleast that's my read, I could be wrong and the makers aren't trying to show this).

Just to provide context to what I said, in the series 24, there was scene where a bunch of goons take over an airport and trap the passengers inside. One of the goons drags a girl to another room to rape her. The mother of that girl seeing no other option (everyone is held at gunpoint), asks the going to take her instead, promising she wouldn't make a noise. To save her daughter, she gives herself up. Can this be counted as consent? No. Later it turns out that she was two months pregnant when she was raped, so when a doctor checks her up later that day, she asks, "I was raped, will that affect my pregnancy?"

So, my point is coerced consent is not consent. And to sum up as a spectator, yes I can forgive him, but I can't see how in Katha's shoes, I could forgive him. For this case, if it were any other damage done, may be, but such a deep damage to you, I don't see how one can see his face and not relive the trauma.

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I understand what you are trying to say and I think what you're getting at is reluctant consent vs coercive consent. I believe both of these are completely different things. I definitely don't think Viaan coerced her into doing it. He was clear and told her that she could leave if she wanted to at which point she could have communicated her actual problem but she chose not to say anything and just stuck to his offer. Yes she flinched at his touch, Yes she wanted to back out but beared it. But unlike in the 24 scenario, Viaan did not drag her into doing it, he did not threaten or pressurize her to accept the offer which is why I don't agree with the fact that any kind of coercion was used to get her consent. She was simply reluctant and did not want to go ahead with it but did so because of her circumstances. Just because Viaan didn't back out doesn't make him a rapist but he was definitely an a**hole. Also if Katha really thought that was rape, she could have stood up and complained about it but she also didn't do that. From her behaviour I also don't think she's taking this as a rape. 


Honestly the biggest problem I see in Viaan and Katha's case is the fact that Katha didn't tell him the full truth. Not that not knowing the truth gives Viaan the right to put down this offer in front of her but he definitely would have been less of an ahole that way if he knew cause he isn't a criminal who will sexually assault someone. I think there is a very thin line between consensual s** and rape and in exceptional cases like these that line can be very hard to define and can vary for different people. 

Posted: 1 years ago

may be chance to repent... only that possible..... no forgiveness.....

Posted: 1 years ago
Originally posted by Twinklestar139


I understand what you are trying to say and I think what you're getting at is reluctant consent vs coercive consent. I believe both of these are completely different things. I definitely don't think Viaan coerced her into doing it. He was clear and told her that she could leave if she wanted to at which point she could have communicated her actual problem but she chose not to say anything and just stuck to his offer. Yes she flinched at his touch, Yes she wanted to back out but beared it. But unlike in the 24 scenario, Viaan did not drag her into doing it, he did not threaten or pressurize her to accept the offer which is why I don't agree with the fact that any kind of coercion was used to get her consent. She was simply reluctant and did not want to go ahead with it but did so because of her circumstances. Just because Viaan didn't back out doesn't make him a rapist but he was definitely an a**hole. Also if Katha really thought that was rape, she could have stood up and complained about it but she also didn't do that. From her behaviour I also don't think she's taking this as a rape. 


Honestly the biggest problem I see in Viaan and Katha's case is the fact that Katha didn't tell him the full truth. Not that not knowing the truth gives Viaan the right to put down this offer in front of her but he definitely would have been less of an ahole that way if he knew cause he isn't a criminal who will sexually assault someone. I think there is a very thin line between consensual s** and rape and in exceptional cases like these that line can be very hard to define and can vary for different people. 

This is a touchy subject and it can be debated for hours.

In this scenario, the line is indeed very thin. When Viaan propositioned her he said something to the effect of "it is an offer, take it or leave it" no coersion there. in the hotel room as well, she was given an option to leave and viaan backed away. He was definitely dangling something in front of her but she was given an option each time.

Edited by pomegranate - 1 years ago
Posted: 1 years ago
Originally posted by pomegranate


This is a touchy subject and it can be debated for hours.

In this scenario, the line is indeed very thin. When Viaan propositioned her he said something to the effect of "it is an offer, take it or leave it" no coersion there. in the hotel room as well, she was given an option to leave and viaan backed away. He was definitely dangling something in front of her but she was given an option each time.

Definitely, and I believe no one is wrong in their take as well in this situation because this whole case is an outlier.

I've heard a lot of real life stories wherein couples will give in to each other just to not upset their partner even though they would not be comfortable with it. Obviously these are toxic relationships and some have not ended well but would that mean every time that happens it's a case of rape? Sometimes I feel like rape itself is a very personal topic and it might mean differently to different people. 

Posted: 1 years ago
Originally posted by Twinklestar139


I understand what you are trying to say and I think what you're getting at is reluctant consent vs coercive consent. I believe both of these are completely different things. I definitely don't think Viaan coerced her into doing it. He was clear and told her that she could leave if she wanted to at which point she could have communicated her actual problem but she chose not to say anything and just stuck to his offer. Yes she flinched at his touch, Yes she wanted to back out but beared it. But unlike in the 24 scenario, Viaan did not drag her into doing it, he did not threaten or pressurize her to accept the offer which is why I don't agree with the fact that any kind of coercion was used to get her consent. She was simply reluctant and did not want to go ahead with it but did so because of her circumstances. Just because Viaan didn't back out doesn't make him a rapist but he was definitely an a**hole. Also if Katha really thought that was rape, she could have stood up and complained about it but she also didn't do that. From her behaviour I also don't think she's taking this as a rape. 


Honestly the biggest problem I see in Viaan and Katha's case is the fact that Katha didn't tell him the full truth. Not that not knowing the truth gives Viaan the right to put down this offer in front of her but he definitely would have been less of an ahole that way if he knew cause he isn't a criminal who will sexually assault someone. I think there is a very thin line between consensual s** and rape and in exceptional cases like these that line can be very hard to define and can vary for different people. 

@RED

I think you missed the point. In 24, the daughter was being dragged and to save her the mother went in willingly. To a spectator, it wouldn't seem like she was resisting because she didn't physically resist, but that's not consent is what I am trying to say.


And yes you are right, Vihaan didn't blackmail her or pressurise her directly, her pressure point was to save her child but he did have a role in creating that pressure point when he suggested the transaction. For him, he always gave her a way out, from his perspective. But it wasn't so in her perspective.


And as to why she didn't say something about the real reason, I haven't watched all the episodes yet, but it is shown that she and her friend knowingly his the single mother thing as people might have bias and not hire her etc, which is true to an extent in real life as well. And to this point, watch the original series scene if possible. This question is raised there, the male lead asks,"Why didn't you tell me?". She replied, "Did you ask? No. You assumed and put the terms and conditions before me. How could I say anything."


In my point of view, since Vihaan didn't directly pressurise her, he is redeemable from my point of view, but I would still maintain I can see how so from her point of view. But as you said, viewpoints differ.

Edited by Anupreeya - 1 years ago
Posted: 1 years ago

Interesting 

Repentance.... second chance 

When it comes to repentance  according to the Viaan & Katha’s story ... Personally I hold the same opinion Viaan is not committed “ sin” it is if it was s rape or involved a minor girl!  

s*x ( IC) can’t be sin that we live in this century out look of dark ages must change ( purely my view)

He is wrong , was judgement towards women , but it formed from past experiences

Our life exp create & mould us to the humans we are!

Trauma in the childhood can stay with the person through out life of a person an create havoc ! Viaan’s Mom without knowing how to deal with her life threw him in to a whirl pool of unsettled emotions

That is why “ He is basically expressing or over doing it “

At the same time it is not Katha’s duty to pull him out of it 

She too had a choice to walk out from the room ir could have told him that her son is dying ! She too made her “ ego” above truth .

See the their relationship is founded in weak ground 

She has no one ounce of pity to Viasn that his money saved her son’s life where as that MrGarwal humiliated her is given free pass ....without even an apology with Mrs.Gareal’s words ... I still wish that man will say sorry 

If he repent in true sense she can forgive him since he is the only one who gave her “money “ after all her som was saved in time ... At times I am annoyed with Karha now !


In general “ forgiveness “

My point of view ( purely mine) 

It is fine to forgive , when we forgive our souls will be healed ... we are not carrying the “ negativity “any more !

I can relate only with my experiences 

According to me “ forgiving “ is good and great but “ “ forgetting” is bad 

It is impossible to see the person's heart who is repenting !

Once happened it can always “ repeat “ if not automatically the suspicion will set it . It is a simple psychological fact 

If most of us shown a rope in the dark or pic of it many will connect it to a “ snake “ because that is our brain’s in put !

Same thing every conflict mind will start suspect “

Is she or he is doing it again! Or  Am I being fooled “

Definitely not ITV sacrifice addicted dumb FL rest will think 

Life is stranger than fiction !!! Every story is unique since every human is unique 

For me 

Forgiveness is great and  it is healing own self 

Forgetting the same  incident is foolishness .. 

forgive and move on without wishing the other person involved any thing bad ... If can’t wish them good luck don’t “ curse “ them either . They too are acting out of what there being directed by their experiences !

Wrote too much 🤣 

Edited by Rosh4rose - 1 years ago


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