Debate on Feminism ~ Pay-gap . - Page 5

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

I was only cautioning about the pitfalls of any such balancing acts.

But speaking of examples, do you have any, of qualified deserving females who got discriminated based on sex and are paid less consequently?

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

We all have at-will employment; the employer is free to discharge individuals 'for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all,' and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work.If she's smart and capable, she will eventually find something that matches her background. I believe in a country like this, true talent can't be suppressed for long.

Originally posted by: souro

I don't really believe in the gender pay gap for same job profile within the same company, not in organised sectors at least. But because of the way most of the societies are across the world and the roles it expects males and females to play, I think men do get to make some choices freely and women lack that degree of freedom, consequently making them earn less than their potential.

As an example, if an opportunity comes up in another city or country, the husband may not agree to move along with the wife, which many times makes the wife to give up that opportunity so that she won't have to move to another place.

On the other hand, if the husband moves to another city or country because of some better opportunity, the wife is expected to tag along. This causes disruption in her career. Many times women give up a good position just to be with her husband but doesn't find suitable employment in the new place. Many times employers take advantage of such situation and offer lower position compared to her qualification and experience.

Originally posted by: lizzy84

@I am not targeting  you personally, I hope you understand that. This is me putting across my points. :p

Originally posted by: lizzy84

Angel,  I agree with your stance on  ' sexiness and looks need not be always concurrent '.

Can you now associate yourself  with the feminist tag?

or You still feel the concept is inchoate?  

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

I like to be free of tags :p 

We are all trying to align our outlooks towards 'what is right', so I don't think there's anything special and hence see no need for a tag for myself. Such an outlook was supposed to be natural in us.

But for the sake of discussion, I don't like being called a feminist... just because I believe all genders are equal, doesn't make me a 'feminist'. That term by itself sounds misleading IDK why 😛 Something like 'egalitarian' on the other hand, sounds so right,  especially in the context of three genders, unlike 'feminist'... just a personal feeling. 

And in the context of all the set of thoughts I have on this issue, that all three genders face problems - each in their own ways, feminism does look outdated or the way the tag "feminism" is, looks like it's vision is narrow.. 

(not discrediting the quality changes it has brought about, nor am I dismissing the label, but when the vision on these range of issues is a holistic, all-inclusive one, I'd like even the word representative of the concept to suggest the same - again, not the feminism isn't holistic, only that, the label of it also should suggest the concept rightly - because, label is feminism - objective is gender equality ...i see no point on clinging to the label?! I'd like to use a more direct, clear label. ).

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Oh, don't worry about that. I can tell. I am not a novice to these boards :)

So what are we suggesting or implying here? That as soon as the firm or organization sees a female prospect, they lower the wages?

Isn't there a set pay grade for the job before they advertise the position? I mean, even if they  start the female off at the lower range, and the male at the higher range, isn't everything up for negotiation? Are men better negotiators?

I do understand that in the blue-collar class, everybody gets exploited, women especially. But in the white-collar class, it's all up to the candidate how best he/she can sell their skills and negotiate for a better remuneration.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

The gender wage gap is very real. There are many studies and reports showing the wage gap. I do not think the wage gap is always malicious. People do not see a woman and decide to pay less. There are a lot of 'perceptions' about women that make it seem that women should be worth less. 

Souro pointed out a legitimate 'discrepancy'. Women are more likely to switch jobs to support their partner's career than men are. It makes employers perceive women as less loyal or reliable. While it feels discriminatory, I see the employer's point of view as well. 

Similarly women have a greater expectation to take care of the children and household chores. They are judged negatively if they do not give 'homemaker' tasks acceptable attention. Men do not have this expectation. Due to this women are more likely to prioritize 'home' over work. Men have no qualms ignoring 'home' for important deadlines and project. Again, it makes employers perceive women as less committed. 

Pregnancy is another curveball. Most women will take maternity leave for their delivery. Even a ambitious career woman who plans to be in and out of the delivery room, can be struck with complications or health concerns that require maternity leave. Premature deliveries, weakened immune systems etc are always a risk. Even though it is illegal to discriminate against pregnant women, employers are reasonably cautious. They tend to pass over women who are pregnant or trying to get pregnant for important promotions and projects. A slightly less qualified male colleague may edge over women - because he may seem to be a safer bet. 

Psychologically, teams are more likely to respond to male leaders than female leaders. Assertive men are seen as 'getting the job done' but assertive women are perceived as 'bitches'. Men and women who have the exact same qualifications and leadership skills will see a difference in team results. That slight edge for men can mean better pay and promotions. 

Finally men seek raises, while women expect to be recognized. Many places do not hand out raises until an employee speaks up and says I deserve more. Men are more likely to use annual reviews to negotiate better pay. Women are more likely to accept the incremental raises. Many feminists disagree with this variance, but its true. I have seen it in action. 

As long as some of these variances and perceptions exist, the wage gap will exist. Employers are not trying to intentionally discriminate. The doubt is not in her qualifications or ability, but in her commitment and reliability. But the trend is changing. Old perceptions are being shed. Men and women, including married ones are weighing their career and opportunities equally. Men are sharing more 'home' tasks to accommodate their spouse's career. We have seen several successful female leaders emerge. We just have to work on changing the perceptions.