Of Sense and Censorship and Sea Monsters

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Posted: 10 years ago
#1
People have probably had an overload of AIB discussion. I want to step away from the specific issue of that show to a more general discussion on freedom of speech, censorship and public sensibilities. For it is a much broader issue with varying perspectives. A few brief discussions on the 50 Shades of Grey release worldwide and the censorship issues with NH10 show that censorship is still relevant.

I'd like to begin with the release of 50 Shades of Grey. In Malaysia the film is being outright banned as po*nography. I presume many conservative Islamic nations will follow suit (or the producers didn't even bother trying). The film is stuck in censor board in India with cuts and release info uncertain. USA, Canada, UK, Australia the so called western nations will be releasing it as R rated. France on the other hand gives it a rating equivalent to PG-12. The French censor board thinks twelve year olds can see it and one censor board member went on to call it as "schmaltzy", a term usually associated with Disneyesque chick flicks rather than a risqu romance involving some pretty hardcore BDSM. Many Europeans are like that. They actually wonder why USA is so uptight about sex and censorship. European romances and dramas will often have pretty explicit sex scenes, something even American audiences will blush about. Nudity is not at all a big deal. You could come across a full frontal nudity in a G rated flick as long as it was casual, not sexual. The family friendly comedy about the fall of communism in Germany "Goodbye Lenin" has full frontal male nudity a short while into the film, something considered XXX in USA. The Swedish comedy "Together" has an extensive scene of a woman and her hairy apparatus walking around the kitchen. Even the supposedly Orthodox Jewish Israel didn't have a problem with full frontal female nudity in "Turn Left at the End of the World".

Personally, I have always found myself agreeing more with the European brand of unadulterated libertarianism in comparison to the tempered liberalism practiced in USA and UK. Countries like Denmark, Netherlands, France, Germany have always had more freedom of speech. They have an unfettered uninhibited freedom of speech where even political correctness or reverence doesn't matter. Charlie Hebdo or Jyllands Posten didnt just insult Islam. They unapologetically published content that was anti-Semitic and anti-church too. They skewered political leaders and figures across Europe in the most risqu and rudest way. And that is how Freedom of Speech should be. As Voltaire said "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it". The content maybe the most offensive racist crap and go against all my sensibilities, but if someone wants to say it, I defend their right to say it.

A long time back when the KKK were going to hold a rally in my town, some coworkers asked me what I thought of it. They were expecting me to be angry and outraged, but were pleasantly surprised by the fact that I agreed the KKK had the right to assemble peacefully and exercise their constitutional rights. Same for Westboro Baptist church and their "God Hates Fags" rallies. I hated the motherf**ker and hoped he died the most painful death, but he had the right to protest. For me the bark and the bite are two separate things. The bark may lead to the bite. But until and unless there is a bite, you cannot preemptively clampdown the bark.

Someone or the other will always be offended. Someone or the other will always not like what you say. Someone or the other will always complain. And a lot of time the backlash will be founded in good reason. That by no means should result in clamping of free speech. The problem is that suppression of free speech is a slippery slope. You give an inch and people take a yard. The Catholic church gets an appeasement then pretty much every group including the majority group is seeking appeasement. Pretty soon you cannot say anything at all because some group or the other will seek appeasement. More dangerous is the government. You let them exercise power to shut down one faction, before you know it you are under authoritarian leadership like North Korea, China or Islamic theocracies. You may be excited when the government extends its power to censor something that you don't like, but the day won't be far when it comes back and censors you because it doesn't like it.

The USA is by no means a beacon of free speech. We do have our own issues. I keep hoping that we shift more towards European libertarianism, but there are setbacks. And the setbacks actually come with our obsession with political correctness than otherwise. However, I do feel we are much more progressive than India. Our conservative groups are all bark, no bite. They are more fodder for late night show jokes rather than actually cause someone to delete their content, or publicly apologize. We actually can make movie criticizing and trashing Presidents in office without repercussions. We can actually speak ill of people in power on social media without pages being deleted or being arrested. We actually have a ratings system where instead of censoring at cutting films the motion picture board decides that people should decide for themselves. There are many civil liberties lacking in India. And to the contrary this is not to demean India, but said in the same spirit when I talk about the civil liberty issues we face in America.

Point - what are your views on censorship, what should be censored, why not, what is the line, how, why. Pretty much everything under the sun about the subject.

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Posted: 10 years ago
#2

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

France on the other hand gives it a rating equivalent to PG-12.



At first I thought you were saying Franco, as in our Franco from the board lol. Love you Franco.


But I agree with you on almost everything. I'm on the fence about whether we (I live in the States too) should follow the European's method of ratings and liberalism. On the one had I do agree that as Americans we can be very uptight about things. Remember the nipple gate from a few Super Bowls ago? All that brouhaha over a nipple that was covered with a pasty anyway. Ridiculous. But at the same time I'm not sure if a 12 year old is mature enough to watch something like 50 Shades and not be affected by the content. I'm basing this on what I've heard the book is about (haven't read it) and assuming the movie follows the book closely. Is it OK for a 12 year old to watch a movie about BDSM? How will that affect their psyche, and their perception of sex and sexual activity between two individuals and so forth?

But I agree with you on everything else. Especially censorship. I do like our system of rating movies. Let each individual decide for themselves, or each parent to parent their own child.

AllBlacks1 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
#3
The basic rule of freedom of speech/expression is " Your freedom stops where my freedom begins". So the theory of relativity. My friend can call me anything as long I don't mind but not in front of my whole family or on stage. That's when he crossed his boundries and I am offended. Likewise, I know the limits of what to talk and how to talk to the .. may be 1000s ppl I have came across in my life, sometimes I have gone wrong and hurt some of them. Sometimes they have hurt me.
Now, Zoom out that to 10000000 times, its still same every society, country, religion, showbiz, anything that is far reaching than just personal opinions.

TM, your whole arguments has exactly opposite coin side to it. Like U say, "U can say something that hurt me, but I will still defend ur right to say" What? 😆 We r not Mahatma Gandhis and even he won't agree with that. 😆

Slippery slope, right? So if have censorship and start drawing lines on whats acceptable and what not... and then in no time we will be left with NO voice and others in power will take over?

Hang on, how abt we let lose these dirty minds and let them speak whatever the shit they can come with and make movies with all kinds of filth... no censorship... then? Slippery slope doesn't apply there?

Why do have Governments r in the place? Why do have Police? Let the public do what they want. Let it be the law of Jungle. Even in Jungle, therez a law, There r predators and there r preys.

WHO decides where to draw the line? PUBLIC. Just like in democracy, Ppl have rights to vote and elect or throw a party/leaders, public decides. Therez no universal formula, therez no "one size fits all" rule, therez no "one world". Every society will determine its own standards.

Its like USA trying to force democracy on other countries, but hey, doesn,t that defeat the whole purpose? Doesn' that bend the rules of democracy that Its for the ppl and by the ppl of the country?

So, censorship is needed. I have seen many BW movies as a child that I shudn't have. Like a gang rape in public, goons hitting pregnant woman on her tummy, excessive crying after someone's death, goons rule 90% of movie to show torture and in last 10% they get beaten up... etc..

If censorship is abusing its power, just like any head-of-state of a country, PPl have rights to voice, protest and vote. Therz always gonna be trial-error mechanism to get things right.

And plz, dont comapare one cuture/race/religin/county to another for setting the standards. Even NZ and Aus r so diff. even tho world may think we r same.




Edited by AllBlacks1 - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#4
Its all about intention . I know if I say Bomb in a airplane/airport I will get bumb rushed or if I go upto Obama's face and say something I will get in trouble . But thats because my intention is evil . The AIB did not have this Satanic plan to bash people . It was not a black ops type secret mission to put down certain cultures. 😆😆 They were just some guys telling jokes . An if that pisses some people off well don't watch it 😆😆😆😆 How hard is that 🤣🤣🤣. I would understand if people were being forced but thats not even the case. I think the FIR's are just stupid .
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Posted: 10 years ago
#5
I do not think all are prepared to handle the European brand of FoE.

It's a difference in cultures. People believe in certain limits. Some limits are necessary also especially for a country like India where people are more likely to get emotional than use reason.

Freedom can get risky. You never know when speech translates to a mindset and then results in action.

It is fancy to debate online. But real life conditions and ramifications are different.

We have had touchy ones who felt words like mochi, sunaar, halwai had casteist references in Aaja Nachle song and wanted it banned.

It does sound stupid. But cultures take ages to change.
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Posted: 10 years ago
#6
To me, prohibiting the expression of an idea simply because society finds it offensive is the ultimate subversion of freedom of speech. Without freedom of speech, all other rights are at a risk because as you rightly pointed out, it is a slippery slope and before you know it, you are not allowed to say anything for fear it might offend someone.

Trying to bridge the topic of free speech with the 'responsibility' to not offend others serves as a distraction and nothing else. The whole "why provoke" mentality upsets me because other than sharing common ground with apologism, it has proven to stifle India's intellectual activity for far too long. and in the case of incidents like the carnage in Paris, this mentality places the blame firmly with the victims rather than their aggressors because people mistakenly believe that their safety depends on simply appeasing to the sensibilities of violent fundamentalists. I imagine the thinking goes along the lines of "you offend fundamentalists, you die - so why provoke?" What people forget is that appeasement never led to anything good, anyways - ref. Churchill and Hitler.

People often say your freedom ends where mine begins -- to that I would counter your right to be offended does not curtail my right to offend and lead an uncensored life. I can offend and will do so when I want to -- I will also defend your right to be offended because free speech is not a luxury, to be only bestowed when circumstances are favourable (i.e. under a veil of decency) but a goddamned right.

With respect to censoring movies or books in India, it is incredibly arbitrary and gives too much power to the govt and political parties to selectively influence people. For instance, Parzania (beautiful movie, btw) was held up for a long time by the censor board and then, later slapped a ban by a political party because it would allegedly cause a "law and order" problem in the state of Gujarat. Bull-freaking-shit. To pretend that it was anything other than political agenda is hogwash. Hell, Deshdrohi was banned for the longest time for depicting the 2008 attacks spearheaded by Raj Thackeray's MNS. Thackeray can provoke hatred and incite violence but god forbid you make a movie out of it - everyone's sensibilities are only offended then. Moreover, if the govt can not deal with law-and-order issues, that is their problem. It does not mean a person's right to free speech should be suppressed.
Edited by ShadowKisses - 10 years ago
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Posted: 10 years ago
#7
What's the big deal if a character uses the words like f**k, chu, BC, mc? Gimmicky or not..it's the director's call. If he wants to include those words he should be able to do so. What's with the unnecessary restrictions. 🤪
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Posted: 10 years ago
#8
I had a post deleted because it had a few repetitions of f**k and f**king followed by a love letter 🤓
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Posted: 10 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: wAnNaBeReBel

I had a post deleted because it had a few repetitions of f**k and f**king followed by a love letter 🤓


IF deleted it because you were trying to sound cool. IF doesn't encourage "forced coolness". People use cuss words ONLY when they want to sound cool. 😎
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Posted: 10 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: .krackjack.


IF deleted it because you were trying to sound cool. IF doesn't encourage "forced coolness". People use cuss words ONLY when they want to sound cool. 😎

The whole point of the post was to mock AIB for using too many f**ks to sound cool 🤓

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