..::Doubts & Discussions about Historical facts::.. - Page 51

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geeta58 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: myviewprem

Can someone clarify about Sati

Do all Rajpuths do sati or only royalty?
If a man has more than one wife do all wife commit sati?
Why do they commit sati? Is it because kids cannot take care of them?
I read in a book that those women were drugged and then pushed on pyre

My viewprem, I am not an expert on the topic, but will explain with my limited reading.After that u yourself can decide how such heinous act of crime became woven into our society in the name of culture.😲 Our ancient Hindu scriptures like Manu Smriti, n Shruti lay down2 options fr a lady who loses her husband, n becomes widow, Vidhava.
1. Sati, whereinshe has to follow her husband in death by entering his funeral pyre.By this act, I quote the words 'she will become responsible fr 42 previous generations(21 frm her side 21 frm husband'e side)to gain Swarg i.e heaven.But the scriptures also say (so kind)if the woman has small chidren to bring up, or she is pregnant, she cannot go sati.If huband's death occures in some other place or if the body is not found, then also she is spared frm going sati.
2. The other option is following the strigent rules laid fr Widow. That is, she shud shove off her head, shud wear only white clothes, should not wear, blouse, bangles, flowers, sindhur,. She shud sleep on floor, eat only once in a day, shud not participate in any auspicious funcion etc, etc., u must be aware of.
As far as I know only upper casts were allowed rather forced to go sati.Brahmins, Kshatriyas .brahmins usually had only one wife but all wives could go sati depending on their willingness, but the chief consort was suppose to lead the sati
As death ratio was high, in those days, n marraige age was low, these widows would be young n unwilling to do the act, so they were drugged n placed on the pyre.
NandiniRaizadaa thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: smitra90

Hello everyone..I have a doubt regarding Jauhar...When I was watching the war track, I heard Jodha mentioning of it...Even in history I had heard that Rajput queens in those days, used to perform jauhar to prevent themselves from being touched and disrespected by enemies incase they lost the war. But I want to know what is the historical meaning and logic behind jauhar? They could have consumed poison and died..why take such a horrific step?? Death by burning themselves was a painful and really brave step. I want to know why did the queens particularly chose Jauhar rather than attempting suicide by other less harmful means?? I would be grateful if someone could clear my this doubt. 😊


Though I do not condone the act of Jauhar and Sati but I will try to answer that from what I know being a Rajput

Jwahar was committed as a mass suicide act by Rajput women to protect themselves from the hands of foreign invaders in case the defeat if their husbands was imminent in war. They used to kill themselves before the invaders reached the fort

Now as you say they could have died by consuming poison but their logic was that they wanted to make it an act of bravery and glorification. Secondly they didn't want even their bodies to get into hands of enemy

Jwahar and saka mostly happened togather . Saka was a male mass suicide in which men went to war knowing the enemy will defeat them but as they decide to go and not to come back alive
myviewprem thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: geeta58

My viewprem, I am not an expert on the topic, but will explain with my limited reading.After that u yourself can decide how such heinous act of crime became woven into our society in the name of culture.😲 Our ancient Hindu scriptures like Manu Smriti, n Shruti lay down2 options fr a lady who loses her husband, n becomes widow, Vidhava.

1. Sati, whereinshe has to follow her husband in death by entering his funeral pyre.By this act, I quote the words 'she will become responsible fr 42 previous generations(21 frm her side 21 frm husband'e side)to gain Swarg i.e heaven.But the scriptures also say (so kind)if the woman has small chidren to bring up, or she is pregnant, she cannot go sati.If huband's death occures in some other place or if the body is not found, then also she is spared frm going sati.
2. The other option is following the strigent rules laid fr Widow. That is, she shud shove off her head, shud wear only white clothes, should not wear, blouse, bangles, flowers, sindhur,. She shud sleep on floor, eat only once in a day, shud not participate in any auspicious funcion etc, etc., u must be aware of.
As far as I know only upper casts were allowed rather forced to go sati.Brahmins, Kshatriyas .brahmins usually had only one wife but all wives could go sati depending on their willingness, but the chief consort was suppose to lead the sati
As death ratio was high, in those days, n marraige age was low, these widows would be young n unwilling to do the act, so they were drugged n placed on the pyre.

Yes I am aware. But I am not so sure because where I come from there is no concept of sati, widow wearing white etc. I mean after the initial 13 days or one month widow woman can wear anything like a married woman or young girl all sort of color dress and jewellery even bindi etc(basically they can go back to living life like when husband was there after mourning whether they are young or old aged). Some of these things(for widows like not wearing color dress and jewellery) still practiced in villages and towns even till now I know. I want to know do muslim widows also follow same customs because Bakshi is so scared to lose a tyrant husband. She was already a young widow has she faced something bad that she bends backwards to please sharifuddin.
All I can say in indian society a widow(or any single woman) is not respected as an individual even today. A woman identity and status determined first by father or elder brother than by husband and finally son. So there is no scope for an individual at all. Whereas man's identity is decided individually not by his mother, wife, daughter or father, son etc. But God has created every human as individual and all have rights to live as they wish rather than obey commands of father, husband or son etc. This dependency for every decision on man makes the life of woman highly frustrating and unhappy and they really do not have a happy life unlike men who live as they wish independently atleast at home(if not in office etc where they have to listen to higher ups).
Edited by myviewprem - 11 years ago
NandiniRaizadaa thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Sati was mostly there in Bengal and Rajasthan
In Mahabharata days sati used or be voluntary. Not all women used to do it
Actually in 18 th century this practice became more predominant
geeta58 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: -Gitanjali-


Though I do not condone the act of Jauhar and Sati but I will try to answer that from what I know being a Rajput

Jwahar was committed as a mass suicide act by Rajput women to protect themselves from the hands of foreign invaders in case the defeat if their husbands was imminent in war. They used to kill themselves before the invaders reached the fort

Now as you say they could have died by consuming poison but their logic was that they wanted to make it an act of bravery and glorification. Secondly they didn't want even their bodies to get into hands of enemy

Jwahar and saka mostly happened togather . Saka was a male mass suicide in which men went to war knowing the enemy will defeat them but as they decide to go and not to come back alive

Thank u fr that piece of information.Saka seems to be a kind of a kind of Harakeri .Because of this platform, we come to know of the reason behind so many practices.👍🏼
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Posted: 11 years ago
Ya Saka was mostly an all out war where the men died fighting as the women did Jawhar. There was nothing to go back to so an all out charge against the enemy till they die
geeta58 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: myviewprem

Yes I am aware. But I am not so sure because where I come from there is no concept of sati, widow wearing white etc. I mean after the initial 13 days or one month widow woman can wear anything like a married woman or young girl all sort of color dress and jewellery even bindi etc(basically they can go back to living life like when husband was there after mourning whether they are young or old aged). Some of these things(for widows like not wearing color dress and jewellery) still practiced in villages and towns even till now I know. I want to know do muslim widows also follow same customs because Bakshi is so scared to lose a tyrant husband. She was already a young widow has she faced something bad that she bends backwards to please sharifuddin.
All I can say in indian society a widow(or any single woman) is not respected as an individual even today. A woman identity and status determined first by father or elder brother than by husband and finally son. So there is no scope for an individual at all. Whereas man's identity is decided individually not by his mother, wife, daughter or father, son etc. But God has created every human as individual and all have rights to live as they wish rather than obey commands of father, husband or son etc. This dependency for every decision on man makes the life of woman highly frustrating and unhappy and they really do not have a happy life unlike men who live as they wish independently atleast at home(if not in office etc where they have to listen to higher ups).

I am happy to learn that there r some places where there is no such evil 😛.The times hv changed fr women, but too slowly.My grandmother used to wear white, sleep on the floor, n used to eat only one time.But she had not shoven her head.After 2 generation I can now see widows wearing even mangalsuras fr office.Ironically, it becomes a sort of protection.I feel there is too much of a wide gap, between the indiduality of 2 sorts of women in India.On one hand u see women becoming CEO of banks, mncs, on the other hand u see women having no say at all even in her own family.😡😲 We can hv pages of discussions on the reasons fr this condition of woman in our society, n also solutions fr that.But I feel it is utmost important fr parents to teach their children to respect women n inculcate the right values right frm childhood .I don't know of Muslim widows' status but I think there wouldn't be much of a difference, Because keeping their safty in mind that they hv the custom of marrying 4 wives
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Posted: 11 years ago

Enjoying the rich architecture and the cultural-historical treasures of Lahore, one cannot help being awed by the grandeur and the mystery of a Mughal-era tomb's pale-white dome situated inside the south-western boundary wall of the Punjab Civil Secretariat. The tomb is known as the last abode of the celebrated romantic character Anarkali, a courtesan of the Mughal emperor Akbar and his son Prince Saleem (Jahangir).

The character of Anarkali has always haunted the historians, in particular, and the people in general, with a strong feeling of suspense, mystery, awe and a passionate romance. The story of Anarkali is, originally, a traditional legend which has travelled verbally from generation to generation. From whatever research information is available it is believed that the lady, born Nadira Begum or Sharf-un-Nissa, was basically from Iran and came to Lahore with a traders' caravan.

As she was very attractive, she got access to Akbar's court and was endowed with the epithet of Anarkali on the basis of her beauty. It is really amazing that neither Jahangir mentioned her in his book Tuzk-i-Jahangiri, nor any contemporary historian left any clue of her saga.

The first historical mention of Anarkali is found in the travelogue of the British tourist and trader, William Finch, who came to Lahore during 1608 to 1611. According to Finch's account, Anarkali was one of the wives of Emperor Akbar and the mother of his son Danial Shah. Akbar developed suspicions that Anarkali had incestuous relations with Prince Saleem (Jahangir) and, on this ground had her buried alive in the wall of Lahore Fort. Jahangir, after ascending the throne, had this splendid tomb constructed, at the present site, in memory of his beloved.

Other western visitors, who arrived here during the next two centuries, including Haggle, Prince and Mason, only mentioned the charming gardens and fascinating architecture of the tomb, but nothing about the person buried in the grave or the incident of Anarkali.

Noor Ahmed Chishti, in his book Tehqiqaat-i-Chishtia (1860), has provided some details about the grandeur of the building and the episode of Anarkali, based on his personal observations as well as traditional tales. He writes, "Anarkali was a beautiful and a favourite concubine of Akbar the Great and her real name was Nadira Begum or Sharf-un-Nissa. Akbar's inordinate love for her made his other two ladies jealous and hostile towards Anarkali. Now, some say that Akbar was on a visit to Deccan when Anarkali fell ill and died and the other two concubines committed suicide to avoid the emperor's wrath. When the emperor came back he ordered to create this grand tomb." Chishti also relates: "I saw the marble grave that has 99 names of Allah inscribed on it, and the name Sultan Saleem Akbar was written on the head side".

Syed Abdul Lateef, in his book Tareekh-i-Lahore (1892), mentions that Anarkali's actual name was Nadira Begum or Sharf-un-Nisa and she was one of Akbar's concubines. He suspected illegitimate relations between Prince Saleem and Anarkali and, therefore, ordered that Anarkali be burried alive in a wall, and the tomb was later built there by Jahangir (Saleem) when he succeeded to the throne. A couplet by Jahangir written on the grave in Persian reads, "If I could behold my beloved only once, I would remain thankful to Allah till doomsday".

This clearly infers a passionate affair between Saleem and Anarkali. Two dates have been mentioned on the grave: 1008 Hijri (1599AD) and 1025 Hijri (1615AD) " perhaps the date she died and the date of the completion of the tomb.

In his compilation, titled Tareekh-i-Lahore (1897), Kanhaya Laal writes that Nadira was a beautiful concubine in the court of Akbar and was endowed with the name Anarkali on the basis of her pink complexion and ravishing beauty. He also opines that she died a natural death when Akbar was on a tour of Deccan. Later on, Akbar got this graceful tomb built, but it was destroyed by the Sikh rulers and was later converted into a Church by the British.

Abdullah Chagatai, a 18th century historian and architect, has given a very different version. He opines that the tomb, basically built in the centre of a pomegranate garden, contains the grave of Jahangir's wife Saheb Jamal who was very dear to him. With the passage of time the lady's name disappeared into oblivion and the tomb was christened by the people as the tomb of Anarkali on the basis of the surrounding pomegranate gardens.

The building was exploited by the successive British and Sikh rulers and was converted into a Protestant Church, a Cantonment, a store house and residence, in different phases of history. The real romanticism and poetic beauty associated with this character was created when Imtiaz Ali Taj wrote a romantic play on Anarkali's passionate affair with Prince Saleem and her ultimate tragic death. Then, the historically famed Indian film Mughl-i-Aazam went a long way to deify the character of Anarkali by presenting the charismatic and gifted actress Madhubala as Anarkali against the legendary Dilip Kumar as Prince Saleem.

Although the available historical facts about the character as well as the mausoleum are vague and confusing, the size and the grandeur of the burial chamber and the presence of a grave inside it vividly suggest that the deceased person was of great significance. Moreover, the bustling markets of New Anarkali and Old Anarkali in Lahore will never allow us to set aside the character of Anarkali summarily.

http://www.dawn.com/news/694833/legend-anarkali-myth-mystery-and-history

vijisridhar thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
Very nice... Thanks for a vivid articulation of various accounts.
Viji
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Posted: 11 years ago
Danial's Mother was not Anarkhali nor Nadira begum. Anarkhali was not wife of Akbar.

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