Saraswatichandra, Film and Form.

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smrth

@smrth

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#21

Ivy ji, please accept one more student! League promise pucca?! 😛

Thanks for Pm. Bookmarking...will come back later..😊

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-Ivy-

@-Ivy-

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#22

Originally posted by: Arshics
@ ivy,
Twila has a great idea, you could post the promo analysis on the forum.

It would be a great learning experience for all

Now that I have seen the promo so many times, trying to relate to what you are saying

I find myself noting minute details

So an observation :

Doesn't the way he clasps the bracelet on Kumud's wrist resemble handcuffing?

Also a question ivy : in this scenario where there is no bank of episodes and episodes are made just in time, and also tracks change for TRP,

Can the makers do ramanchi? Indicate one thing through the promo, but change mid way and give us something entirely different.

For ex though the promo indicates a devious pramaad, the cvs may change their mind and give us a good pramaad?

Also what is the duration of the track indicated by a promo - is there some sort of time frame within which the promo typically plays out, or it is completely flexible?

Hiya Arshi! Thank you, for giving me the encouraging push and sage advice =)

Italics: Will PM you to discuss this further... Need some more advice from 'teacher ji' 😳

Bold: Mischief Managed! 😆

You do you discredit calling yourself the 'class idiot' Arshi ji... And now that is a really good observation. However, we can only speculate because of our 'handicap'... The dismal picture quality of the promo. I placed it as a kangan, Twila and you recognised it as a bracelet... And plus you've observed that he actually clips it on, like a handcuff. This is maybe stretching it a bit, but I'm reminded of the 'ball and chain' a physical restraint device used on prisoners in the British colonies. Ball and chain, also is a twentieth century slang term for 'wife' with the presumption that the wife holds back the husband from doing the things that he wants to - this promo flips this original intent. Thus again, the allusion is to marriage. So yes, handcuffing Kumud, making her, his prisoner, cutting off her avenues of 'escape' or maybe messing around with her faculties of sound judgement one-by-one. BUT, the fact remains that this 'handcuffing' is consensual. Kumud does not resist... Pramad dangles a carrot and she herself offers her hand up to be 'shackled.'

Regarding the question, Arshi ji, let me ask one myself because I have been wondering ever since we started discussion in HB. I thought, bank episodes, were a requirement, even it be the minimum possible number say two-three. As far as I know, in the West, they are a must and even regarding SC, measuring by the off-set photographs we get, or back when we used to get SBB/SBS segments, it gave the impression that epis were being shot one/two days in advance. I recall, Utkarsh Naithani's tweets confirming (when he was still writing for show, post SLB), that the script with dialogues were readied a week in adv... So is it always that epis are finished hours before telecast or just in some exigent circumstances?

RE: question... The promo, should entirely be the director's domain... He is working from the script the CV's have provided him (entire 'track') and he is interpreting and then compressing the entire duration into a matter of seconds. This is why promo's are always metaphorical and chock full of allusions... I can analyse the promo down to the littlest thing, but I doubt I will find more than one sequence in the entire track that will move me to analyse it with such precision. So of course, the CV's can always change, but AK right now, is broadly and in a rather stylised way sticking to what the CV's have provided him with. It's his vision, but their 'substance.'

Bold Two: Hope not! They can always, but what will they get by giving us a good Pramad? We've come to know the CV's well enough to determine that their thought processes are rather 'pedestrian' (not undermining, at all)... That they would rather show black/white, whenever they delve into 'grey' it ends up looking and sounding ludicrous (Pramad's locked room, sob story & Dukh baa's suicide attempt etc)... As Hgg bhai outlined in MD Bytes, this track is apparently a tried and tested TRP getter... You have two men going mano a mano, you have the antagonist fooling the female lead, making her look stupid and thus lending the TRP aunty's intelligence by proxy... You also have the opportunity to see an agonized and outraged Saras, promising many seeti's and taali's, plus you have a ready-to-serve cardiac arrest lurking in the form of Kusum. And not to forget whose presence the promo cleverly conceals... Time to wonder who is lurking there, in the chiaroscuro... It can only be Kalika. A good Pramad, will give heartbreak to Saras, a 'win' to Kumud and that is all. Saras would walk out. But a 'still evil' Pramad, a duped Kumud and a Saras fully hero-ized, that is going to keep people on the edge of their seats. CV's are not out to break any moulds, Arshi, this is story-telling by numbers, to get them numbers (TVT's), only. So I don't feel they will change it... But with SP helming can any of us really bet on that? 😛

The time for a track is also completely flexible... Right now, the only precedent we have to base our estimates is on the running time of the previous promo's track... Approx a week? And also to keep in mind the pace of the epis... Once Saras sees Pramad's true face, and Pramad Saras' identity... And Kumud and Saras are at loggerheads, where Kumud is more inclined to believe Pramad... We can assume the promo has been played out. Think of the promo as extremely broad... The trick here is to analyse promo in minute detail simply for subjective engagement but when it comes to the show, forget everything except the three plus one: Pramad - evil, Saras - Good, Kumud - Fool and Kalika - ?

Edit: One other thing you can ask about the promo, to get a handle on director's intent/ascertain the flow of the script he is provided with... By the end of the thirty-odd seconds, what do you really remember about and take away from the promo? Which character is presented in such a way so as to leave an 'impact'? What is the 'parting shot', so to speak? What is the USP?

Edited by -Ivy- - 12 years ago

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-Ivy-

@-Ivy-

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#23

Twila, you came back again 😃

Thank you for your response proper to the promo. Oh, but you and everyone else can be and are of great help to me... And I really appreciate your viewer perspective, because my analysis talks about 'Intended/expected effect' while your post has explained to me, the 'Impact' of the promo.

1. That it is visually striking, and that draws a viewer in. AK injects beauty, and glamour into scenes. We have all seen the promo, in low quality, but those who have caught it on television, in its full glory can attest to the 'stylised majesty' of the promo, the 'drama quotient' you've observed, right from where the focus shifts to Saras.

2. That AK is still refining his vision and his directorial 'stamp' is still evolving. He is experimenting with different genres, but if anything has remained consistent... It's his visualisations.

Thanks a ton, buddy. I'm making a master-list of AK as Auteur and this will go right at the top of it! 😊 'Chiaroscuro' sounds awesome nah, but its origins are terrifying... The iconic chiaroscuro image is from the German expressionist film, Nosferatu (1922), aka the German Count Drac 😉

This significance of glass, only comes about as a result of the chiaroscuro, the pan camera, the lead by a push... These are stock tropes and techniques that will lead to one primary reading. Glass can be used for beauty and romance too, but the other components of the mise-en-scene must validate that reading... But then too, it should be noted, glass always holds the innate fate of 'breaking'.

Absolutely loved your feedback, Twila 🤗 And I will post analysis on SC forum soon. Make sure you visit the thread 😳

Edited by -Ivy- - 12 years ago

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-Ivy-

@-Ivy-

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#24

Originally posted by: tryforceful
Ivy, what a dose of awesomesauce!👏 In your own words, stand-frikkin'-ovation to ya😊⭐️⭐️

Call me a philistine, but honestly looking into the technical aspects of the show was a chore for me although I'll be trying hard to gauge all my attention to grasp the nuances and Easter eggs in every episode from here on. 😳 My confused background (engineer cum pre-med turned med student) needs to be blamed for the lack of interest in anything artsy, I guess

I have nothing more to add on here and you deserve all the accolades that come your way for this brilliant analysis. Now, I'll just sit back and try to assimilate the things you've said so as to not make a frikkin' fool out of myself!

This post needs to be under the grand topic of SC. Could you please, please do so?😉

Thanks all for asking great, thought provoking questions! Love this forum😊

Thank you, Shrija. Real happy to see you here 😃

O wow! But we'll also make a 'film student' outta you soon enough... Reminds me of my mates, they were all Science and Commerce students, I was the only one who was Law/Arts side... And still, I ended up 'ruining' their movies for them... Just by hearing me blabber on about the film theories, they started unconsciously analyzing films/tv as well 😆

And I'm now at the point where I need my iPhone open to Pages, when I watch a movie/tv show, because I type notes, even when sitting in a theatre! 😳

P.S. Will be posted to SC forum soon. My first topic there so, please do drop in =)

Edited by -Ivy- - 12 years ago

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-Ivy-

@-Ivy-

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#25

Originally posted by: smrth
Ivy ji, please accept one more student! League promise pucca?! 😛
Thanks for Pm. Bookmarking...will come back later..😊

smrth Bhai... We snared you back!! 🥳

Pucca ji Pucca 😉 Looking forward eagerly to your posts, insights and observations 😳

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hotdogg

@hotdogg

Navigator

Posted: 12 years ago

#26

Originally posted by: -Ivy-

The time for a track is also completely flexible... Right now, the only precedent we have to base our estimates is on the running time of the previous promo's track... Approx a week? And also to keep in mind the pace of the epis... Once Saras sees Pramad's true face, and Pramad Saras' identity... And Kumud and Saras are at loggerheads, where Kumud is more inclined to believe Pramad... We can assume the promo has been played out. Think of the promo as extremely broad... The trick here is to analyse promo in minute detail simply for subjective engagement but when it comes to the show, forget everything except the three plus one: Pramad - evil, Saras - Good, Kumud - Fool and Kalika - ?

Edit: One other thing you can ask about the promo, to get a handle on director's intent/ascertain the flow of the script he is provided with... By the end of the thirty-odd seconds, what do you really remember about and take away from the promo? Which character is presented in such a way so as to leave an 'impact'? What is the 'parting shot', so to speak? What is the USP?

Ivy-
This track promises to be long-winded...

Why?
Typically I have seen SP flashes the Title slide used in between breaks focused around the theme of the tracks...with the theme running into multiple tracks over a period of a couple of months...

for e.g. (please don't Iaugh..I am trying to think along your guidelines 😳)
The Title slide used during Kumud's travails after her marriage starts (used till a few epis back just before it was changed to current version) with a light blue background free of any clutter, except Saras and Kumud... Indicating the story is essentially about Saras & Kumud...

Its a Two - Shot...Saras starts with a side profile, but then turn to fully face the camera...indicating a Saras becoming fully confident and sort of regaining his previous self / coming to terms with the situation...

From a Composition perspective...Both Kumud and Saras are shown in Medium Shot ...but with Saras almost as Medium Close-up and with Saras in the forefront...Kumud actually starts out with a Medium close-up and remains at the same zoom setting...but as Saras turns she is actually covered up by a confident, full frontal, Medium to Full Close-up confident Saras...indicating her confusion over the situation and being protected by a confident Saras...who then moves away slightly to show a complete Kumud again but still only in Medium Close-up ...and Saras expression almost defiant...and Kumud's expression switching from apprehension to bemused ...also indicating that Saras will be the active element and Kumud the passive in the narrative and that saras will give her space when he is on his mission

This is how the events turned out...but at the end of 1 - 2 month!

The current Title Slide is not a Two - Shot and shows 3 protagonists: Saras, Kumud & Pramad also against a clear blue background...indicating this will now be about these three...From a Composition perspective...only Saras is in Medium Shot ...and both Pramad & Kusum are Far-Out Medium Shot (I dunno if there is any such term!)...net effect is that Saras appears bigger than both and with a defiant & determined expression indicating he is on a mission and will not stop for anyone.. Also both Kumud & Pramad in the Far-Out Medium Shot (?) are at the same scale / zoom setting and closer together...indicating both will be aligned with each other and on the same side.. Pramad looks on with defiance / anger at Saras...indicating the fight is going to be between these two... Saras is dressed in Light Blue indicating purity of his purpose...Pramad is dressed in Black indicating Evil as his purpose...Kumud in the end starts moving away from Pramad indicating the possible end of this track..Kumud starting to come closer to Saras

So I think...this track will continue for 1 - 2 months...SP also should not have any issues since TRPs are coming up...and most likely show will get extended...

p.s.
Please point out if I have used the terms wrongly! 😳

Edited by hotdogg - 12 years ago

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Arshics

@Arshics

Inactive

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#27

Originally posted by: hotdogg

Ivy-
This track promises to be long-winded...

Why?
Typically I have seen SP flashes the Title slide used in between breaks focused around the theme of the tracks...with the theme running into multiple tracks over a period of a couple of months...

for e.g. (please don't Iaugh..I am trying to think along your guidelines 😳)
The Title slide used during Kumud's travails after her marriage starts (used till a few epis back just before it was changed to current version) with a light blue background free of any clutter, except Saras and Kumud... Indicating the story is essentially about Saras & Kumud...

Its a Two - Shot...Saras starts with a side profile, but then turn to fully face the camera...indicating a Saras becoming fully confident and sort of regaining his previous self / coming to terms with the situation...

From a Composition perspective...Both Kumud and Saras are shown in Medium Shot ...but with Saras almost as Medium Close-up and with Saras in the forefront...Kumud actually starts out with a Medium close-up and remains at the same zoom setting...but as Saras turns she is actually covered up by a confident, full frontal, Medium to Full Close-up confident Saras...indicating her confusion over the situation and being protected by a confident Saras...who then moves away slightly to show a complete Kumud again but still only in Medium Close-up ...and Saras expression almost defiant...and Kumud's expression switching from apprehension to bemused ...also indicating that Saras will be the active element and Kumud the passive in the narrative and that saras will give her space when he is on his mission

This is how the events turned out...but at the end of 1 - 2 month!

The current Title Slide is not a Two - Shot and shows 3 protagonists: Saras, Kumud & Pramad also against a clear blue background...indicating this will now be about these three...From a Composition perspective...only Saras is in Medium Shot ...and both Pramad & Kusum are Far-Out Medium Shot (I dunno if there is any such term!)...net effect is that Saras appears bigger than both and with a defiant & determined expression indicating he is on a mission and will not stop for anyone.. Also both Kumud & Pramad in the Far-Out Medium Shot (?) are at the same scale / zoom setting and closer together...indicating both will be aligned with each other and on the same side.. Pramad looks on with defiance / anger at Saras...indicating the fight is going to be between these two... Saras is dressed in Light Blue indicating purity of his purpose...Pramad is dressed in Black indicating Evil as his purpose...Kumud in the end starts moving away from Pramad indicating the possible end of this track..Kumud starting to come closer to Saras

So I think...this track will continue for 1 - 2 months...SP also should not have any issues since TRPs are coming up...and most likely show will get extended...

p.s.
Please point out if I have used the terms wrongly! 😳

Hgg, you are the class genius, a quick learner!

Loved your analysis of the title slides

There is so much to read even in simple title slides and that is so exciting. ...

I think we are in for a new phase of episode analysis, where ivy leads and we all follow

And it's going to be a fabulous journey.

I am so excited with this...

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hotdogg

@hotdogg

Navigator

Posted: 12 years ago

#28

Aww arshi..no genius...but finding this very very interesting ...so took a crack at it! 😎

I agree with you that there is so much information embedded waiting to be read...

...we have just covered a few seconds worth of screen-time in the title slide and maybe a few minutes worth in the promo...Imagine what wealth lies in an entire episode's run!

Hats off to Ivy for being able to (i) observe (ii) process (iii) compile and (iv) analyze all the information as the epi runs in real-time! 👍🏼

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-Ivy-

@-Ivy-

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#29

Originally posted by: hotdogg

Ivy-
This track promises to be long-winded...

Why?
Typically I have seen SP flashes the Title slide used in between breaks focused around the theme of the tracks...with the theme running into multiple tracks over a period of a couple of months...

for e.g. (please don't Iaugh..I am trying to think along your guidelines 😳)
The Title slide used during Kumud's travails after her marriage starts (used till a few epis back just before it was changed to current version) with a light blue background free of any clutter, except Saras and Kumud... Indicating the story is essentially about Saras & Kumud...

Its a Two - Shot...Saras starts with a side profile, but then turn to fully face the camera...indicating a Saras becoming fully confident and sort of regaining his previous self / coming to terms with the situation...

From a Composition perspective...Both Kumud and Saras are shown in Medium Shot ...but with Saras almost as Medium Close-up and with Saras in the forefront...Kumud actually starts out with a Medium close-up and remains at the same zoom setting...but as Saras turns she is actually covered up by a confident, full frontal, Medium to Full Close-up confident Saras...indicating her confusion over the situation and being protected by a confident Saras...who then moves away slightly to show a complete Kumud again but still only in Medium Close-up ...and Saras expression almost defiant...and Kumud's expression switching from apprehension to bemused ...also indicating that Saras will be the active element and Kumud the passive in the narrative and that saras will give her space when he is on his mission

This is how the events turned out...but at the end of 1 - 2 month!

The current Title Slide is not a Two - Shot and shows 3 protagonists: Saras, Kumud & Pramad also against a clear blue background...indicating this will now be about these three...From a Composition perspective...only Saras is in Medium Shot ...and both Pramad & Kusum are Far-Out Medium Shot (I dunno if there is any such term!)...net effect is that Saras appears bigger than both and with a defiant & determined expression indicating he is on a mission and will not stop for anyone.. Also both Kumud & Pramad in the Far-Out Medium Shot (?) are at the same scale / zoom setting and closer together...indicating both will be aligned with each other and on the same side.. Pramad looks on with defiance / anger at Saras...indicating the fight is going to be between these two... Saras is dressed in Light Blue indicating purity of his purpose...Pramad is dressed in Black indicating Evil as his purpose...Kumud in the end starts moving away from Pramad indicating the possible end of this track..Kumud starting to come closer to Saras

So I think...this track will continue for 1 - 2 months...SP also should not have any issues since TRPs are coming up...and most likely show will get extended...

p.s.
Please point out if I have used the terms wrongly! 😳

Hgg bhai, frickin' FANTASTIC!! You've re-defined a 'quick-learner' 👏 👏 👏

First, a question, was the same title slide in place when the Kalika-Saras-Kumud promo came out? If so, then based on what you have so intuitively observed, we may be in for another promo soon... The 'track' thus is being given out to us, via promos, in increments... And that also supports your suspicion about the convolutedness of the track. It is a 'Monster' of a track.

Regarding the analysis... Pramad-Kumud are in long shot 😳... And notice the physical distance between them and Saras... Even, in the tight framing of a shot, 'space' has been highlighted upon. Literal 'distance' maybe? Also, is Kumud really looking at Saras... There is no 'eyeline match' for Kumud. Meaning, Saras is looking straight at us, the audience, Pramad is looking at Saras, with anger. But Kumud she is looking off-screen, and we never get to see what she is seeing. Take a ruler to your device, and 'match' Kumud's gaze... Thus, Kumud breaks with principle of continuity editing which is founded on the premise that audience will want to see what the character is seeing. I fear thus, we're in for a Kumud who is going to invite a lot of audience brickbats upon her head... But yes, by the end she is taking tiny steps away from Pramad while he could not care less because he is 'fixed' on Saras. Kumud and Pramad are placed opposite too, she comes looks at him, looks away. Gives up, most likely... But Saras-Kumud have a long ways to still go, it appears.

Plus, for Saras, Hgg bhai, light-blue also indicates new beginnings... Coupled with the background - blue sky and barren space. Blue sky is thus aligned with Saras, while the barreness is left for K...

Full Marks Hgg bhai... ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ And I'm really glad you're finding this interesting =)

Edit: Arshi ji, I'm really enjoying your enthusiasm... You've given me so much on CB, I'm just glad I can make my small contributions 😳

Edit again: I've just added to glossary. I realised I missed long shot and that I only provided eye-line match as a theory, not technique. So thank you, Hgg bhai =)

Special Note: The title-card is in deep focus... Where foreground (Saras), middle-ground (Pramad) and background (Kumud) are all in sharp focus. Moreover, there is also use of 'deep space' - this is the technique of placing actors in different planes of the picture. What is interesting is that in the West/Hollywood today, deep focus is rarely used.

Edited by -Ivy- - 12 years ago

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Arshics

@Arshics

Inactive

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#30

Ivy

I know we sound like a mutual admiration society, but I insist on having the last word here, comes of being a teacher and a mother and a wife I guess,

CB has gained more from you and Hgg than whatever you feel it has given, from the moment you both in your time adopted CB, it suddenly was elevated to a different level.

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