+* Dwapar Yuga: Doubts & Discussions *+ - Page 10

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Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#91
Next question:
 
Anyone knows which was the first occasion that Krishna ever used his sudarshan chakra?  Last night, they showed him using it on an invented demon named Matsyasura, but anybody know the actual first time that Krishna used it?
 
Also, was Balaram or Krishna the one who got Vishnu's mace?
lakshmi42 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#92
Nice question but it is difficult to answer. I don't know the proper answer for this question so I searched the net for some results. Then I found something interesting about Sudharshan chakra in the following cites. Please check it. I hope you get something informative from these cites:
http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/knowledge/article/how-did-lord-krushna-acquire-sudarshan-chakra.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarshana_Chakra

Edited by lakshmin42 - 12 years ago
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#93
vrish,

HAve you read K M Munshi's magnum opus "Krishnavatara"- running into eight volumes? The creation  of SUdarshana Chakra is described in the second volume. When KRishna and Balrama were hiding in the Gomantaka Mountains, Krishna offered oblations to Indra seeking his favour in making weapons of great strength. Indra appeared to him in  a dream and directed his attention to some pieces of rock (mineral ore) . Krishna found that when melted the metal oozing out had great strength. He sculpted the sudarshan chakra out of this metal. 
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#94
Vaarali
 
During Kurma avatar, VIshnu used the sudarshan chakra to behead Rahu/Ketu, so how could Krishna have been the one to 'create' it?  I read somewhere that before his first war w/ Jarasandha, a heavenly chariot came from the sky sent by Indra, and it had all the divine weapons in it.  Krishna got his sudarshan chakra from there, while Balaram got his plowshare & mace.
 
The link that Lakshmini posted seemed to suggest that Vishnu's mace went to Krishna, not Balaram.  But in those 16 battles, it looks like Krishna used his bows & arrows to decimate Jarasandha's troops. (BRC made Krishna look like a one dimensional warrior, who used only his sudarshan chakra, but no other weapons, when in fact, he was an excellent archer like Arjun & Karna, as well as equal to Balaram w/ the mace)
lakshmi42 thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#95
I have posted some links that will tell you more about Sudharshan Chakra just after you question Vrish. I think you din't see it. I will post it one more time here. Please check it.
http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/knowledge/article/how-did-lord-krushna-acquire-sudarshan-chakra.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarshana_Chakra

Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#96
Lakshmin
 
I saw it the first time - thanks.  The first link, in particular, was useful - according to it, the koumodaki  mace was given to Krishna - that answers one of the questions I had.  I tend to be a little more suspect about Wiki entries - enter 'Manthara' in wiki and you'll see why.
 
Although, if Krishna got it from Agni after the burning of Khandavprastha forest, how could he have used it in lifting the Govardhan mountain?  What I was curious about was whether he used it during any of his wars w/ Jarasandha?
vanadhi thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#97
hi frds 
 i have  an serious doubt though balram is transferred from devaki's womb to rohini's one, the world knows only one thing that he the son of vasudev and rohini .  By the by krishna is biologically related to devaki . The trone of mathura related to krishna only because he is the son of devaki and blood related grantson of ugrasenna.

Does Vasudev have his own kingdom in any other places? . why  he stayed with his wife related royal family.
 If it so only krishna have the capacity to sat on the throne through direct blood relations etc.not Balram who is the son of rohini.

Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#98

Originally posted by: vanadhi

hi frds 

 i have  an serious doubt though balram is transferred from devaki's womb to rohini's one, the world knows only one thing that he the son of vasudev and rohini .  By the by krishna is biologically related to devaki . The trone of mathura related to krishna only because he is the son of devaki and blood related grantson of ugrasenna.

Does Vasudev have his own kingdom in any other places? . why  he stayed with his wife related royal family.
 If it so only krishna have the capacity to sat on the throne through direct blood relations etc.not Balram who is the son of rohini.

 
Vanadhi
 
Excellent question!!! 👍🏼  I moved it to this thread, which is here to answer precisely these sort of questions, and which is a sticky for that very purpose!
 
Actually, Devaki was Ugrasena's daughter - Vasudev wasn't Ugrasena's son.  But somehow (someone else can elaborate better), he was not in the line of succession of his father Shura, and when he married Devaki, it was followed by his being imprisoned by Kamsa.  Somehow, I have no idea why, when Krishna got him released, he didn't return w/ Devaki, Rohini, Balaram & Krishna to his paternal kingdom.
 
By the conventional rules of succession of any kingdom, where a son succeeds his father, his son succeeds him and so on, Vasudev would have succeeded Shura, and Balaram would have been his successor (actually, had Devaki's first 6 babies lived, the eldest of them would have been the first in line in succession).  Krishna would have been second in line after Balaram, but had Balaram had a son, that son would have been ahead of Krishna in succession hierarchy.  I'm forgetting for the moment which kingdom Shura ruled, and who his successors were.
 
Had Kamsa had any sons by Asti or Prapti (daughters of Jarasandha), they would have been Ugrasena's rightful successors, not Krishna.  Krishna being in the line of succession in Mathura always seemed a bit strange - it would be akin to Yudhisthir or Karna being made the successor to Kuntibhoj (actually, Kuntibhoj had a son Purujit) or Rama being in the line of succession of not Ayodhya, but Kaushalya's maayka South Kosala (today's Chattisgarh).  Normally, daughter's descendents are successors to her husbands kingdom, not her father's.
 
Balaram was conceived by Vasudev & Devaki, but b'cos of the threat of getting killed by Kamsa, he was transferred from Devaki's womb to Rohini's by yogamaya (dunno the exact details of this).  Since he was born to Rohini, he was universally recognized as Rohini's son.  But he was older to Krishna, so would have trumped him as legitimate heir to any throne based on Vasudev.  But afaik, he didn't have any sons, so next in line to him would have been Krishna, Pradhyumna, Samba, Charudeshna and so on.
 
All this is somewhat academic, since Balaram, Krishna and all his sons & grandsons never sat on the throne.  After the fracticide @ Dwarka, after Arjun took all the survivors back to Mathura, since there was nobody else from the family surviving, Arjun crowned Vajra - son of Anirudha/Usha as the ruler of the Vrishnis & Andhakas.
varaali thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
#99
>>Actually, Devaki was Ugrasena's daughter - Vasudev wasn't Ugrasena's son. >>>

Actually Devaki was Ugrasena's niece. Ugrasena had a younger brother- Devaka whose daughter was Devaki.

The entire lineage is described in the ninth chapter of Srimad Bhagavatham.



vanadhi thumbnail
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Posted: 12 years ago
hi  vrish,
what ever may its strange to accept that no one question ugrasenea for exact  throne successor .
 he to have another grantsons of his own chitrakedu and prahipala etc. but i think krishna is Saviour of mathura people they accept whatever related to him unquestioned .
because of his heroic activities and loving nature people considered him as above all humans vice versa  . 

Another doubt it is said that all the people of mathura get drowned in sea only one escaped from the massacre who is udav ,krishna beloved cousin who is married to naga log queen and settled there .(perhaps nagaland i think)  .
it is krishna intensively send him to that naga log to get married and settle there (story behind this is udav got attracted towards sylpiya a young princess of pounduragan court .she is so adamant in behavior and lover of svadakedu too . so avoid udav from her attention he send him far from his kingdom  ).because he feel udav is the last person in yadav community to survive after sea massacre in dwaraka .

so he is one remaining in yadava clan after krishna's period .
they said themselves that they are from yadu, yayadhi bloods etc.