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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#11

Gisel and Friends, Can you answer this question? How do you find the thendral character Sudha as wife? If a normal woman can be like Sudha, does it help her in this unfair World? Definitely Sudha does not seem to be talking from the perspective described in the poem.

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Gisel

@Gisel

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#12

Originally posted by: maha2us
Gisel and Friends, Can you answer this question? How do you find the thendral character Sudha as wife? If a normal woman can be like Sudha, does it help her in this unfair World? Definitely Sudha does not seem to be talking from the perspective described in the poem.

I beg to differ. Each women excepts to be guarded against man by her man. Everyone has become modern and westernization is something we see in our day-to-day life. Women in jobs. Independent, etc, etc. But insecurity is something which is inherent to women. Some women enjoy it. Some women dread it. Some women don't care about it. But it is there.

The poem talks about a women's expectation and making a man realize that whatever be the case (even when there is equality, independence or whatever), a women always looks up to him to be by her side.

Here as we see, Puvi is by her side and is with her in her dreams (being a businesswomen). She always expected him to be by her side when her MIL was against her.

You might say that she is straightforward, bold and independent. But I think all these came only because she got a good husband who understands good and bad. If he didn't care her feelings, their marriage life would have been hell and when marriage life is hell then I guess success is never going to come to your doorstep.

Looking into reality, as we saw in one of the shows, the real life Sudha is totally different.

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Gisel

@Gisel

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#13

Originally posted by: maha2us

As Shammu says, no one is born bad. (This itself is a vast topic.) Also everyone has tenderness deep within in the heart. Because of that I believe, cheating husbands have to be forgiven by the wives and cheating wives also have to be forgiven by the husbands. If both the persons could have fresh understanding of why their relationship broke and could discuss on how the marriage could be strengthened, the marriage could be renewed. Probably Kovalan had learned from his mistakes and there was understanding between him and Kannagi. Note that Sri Rama asked Gautama to forgive Ahalya. The point here is the other spouse can also understand why the husband or wife cheated. This is not something seen in the case of Laxman and that is the reason we are disappointed with what they showed.

I didn't know the story Ahalya and Gautama before you mentioned it. I guess I have learned something new here. Thanks to you! As I was surfing through the net, I read the story which again mentions that Lord Indra disguised himself to cheat Ahalya. Gautama forgiving Ahalya doesn't have much of a weight-age, I think. Ahalya was not at fault at all. I mean this is what I deduced from the story I read.

Laxman here should be so ashamed. I mean how can he even sit with them and talk. Won't anyone die of guilt?

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#14

In that case, the story of Ahalya has different versions in the internet. I don't know which is the original version. But the version based on which I said goes this way which is in Ramayana. When Indra came in the disguise of Gautama, Ahalya could clearly see through his disguise and learn that he is Indra. But she felt elated and honored as she found it was Indra and told herself, 'The king of Devas wants me. I am really lucky.' The story also states Gautama was really old and Ahalya was young and beautiful.

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#15

Today I will say what I could learn in this area. I guess I am now better understanding the poem which starts this debate. Gisel, A curious question. Who wrote this poem? I thank you also as now I can understand a lot on how certain things are.

Western evolution researchers have made new discoveries in this subject. One interesting point I could learn is based on these discoveries one could explain the behavior of Laxman, TPS, Bhuvana and Thulasi and Laavanya. The prime point is during the prehistoric period itself when people were living with hunting and living in caves and fire was not discovered, women had accepted they needed the support and protection of men. This belief which was accepted as truth then is carried through generations and is deep seatedly programmed. It is always very difficult to dislodge programmed beliefs. The beliefs also include the fact that men find it extremely hard to forgive an affair. But a woman finds more tolerant of affairs. This is because if she becomes sure her man will stand by her and take care of her, she will forgive him as this is what she looks for from him. Unfortunately this is the case even as women have jobs, women are successful in business etc. That way I can accept what you said on Sudha, Gisel. Her life would be hell if Puvi behaved with inferiority complex.

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#16

Now looking into the Thendral characters. As Jayashree says, Laxman could have found a loss of identity living with TPS and her family and his ego would have got stirred up when his work colleagues mocked at him. It was 'vaaliba kolaaru' for him to prove who he is and to show he will have the say which was not there for him in TPS's family and so he left her to live with Bhuvana. Bhuvana seized the opportunity which came in her way. An interesting part of the Western research is women are more attracted to men who are more financially well-off. She took up the opportunity which came on the way and more so because she could see she could win Laxman's faith. Life went on smoothly for Bhuvana and Laxman till TPS was spotted in the city. Bhuvana's insecurity made her behave in a certain way. Whatever be her capability, position or anthasthu, Bhuvana felt she could lose her man on a day she found TPS also in action. Laxman had no such feelings as he believed he has already proved his point. While Bhuvana triggered actions with Dharman relationship started to deteriorate between them. TPS's mom consistently told her she needed a man to take care of her and to be her strength which TPS accepted. And now TPS is also sure, Laxman hates Bhuvana after the doleful ways she behaved (fake cancer, rowdy hobnobbing etc.), TPS has no problem accepting Laxman as her man as now she feels he will surely be her source of strength. As she needs her man, she will forgive what he did.

Same is not the case with MM. His ego was shattered when Bhuvana left her and to prove his point he not only married again but also tortured Thulasi during her tender days. He could never forgive Bhuvana. And so he is cruel to her even today as she stayed in Bhuvana's home. But for Thulasi she is also programmed to believe that she needs man to protect her. And she wants to have the love of the first man in her life at any cost who is her dad. And she is behaving in this way.

Isn't Laavanya behaving in a certain way in her husband's home because of her insecurity? Can we say if Nitish were more loving and understanding to her, she wouldn't have been so bad? Wouldn't she have felt overwhelmed as she entered a rich household where her MIL was nagging at her?

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#17

Now a probable solution to this problem. The poem itself has a key to the solution. 'Reasons unjustified.' is a line in the poem. I ask why am I to believe an unjustified reason? A programmed belief has been made a truth through generations and so the society we see now is unfair to women. What can we do? One point I learn is this is not the only unfair aspect we see in this World. Things which happen in this world are more unfair than fair. All of you will accept that rich have one rule and poor have another rule. We have even seen parents giving preference to one child over another.

One point. Probably we may be able to accept that the belief of women that they need the support and the protection of men is a false belief. But many persons in the society may not accept this and they feel clinging on to the old belief gives safety to them. Also it is impossible for anyone to change this belief all on a sudden. It is upto each of us to challenge this false belief. The hard truth is we can't dislodge the deep-seated beliefs in people. How many people believe what is said in Thirukkural are all maxims? Because of this reason we could not change the society. An attempt to change the society makes no sense to me.

One point I can say is we can follow the examples of those who challenged these false beliefs. One truth I learn is God wants everyone of us to show up as extra ordinary or someone who could make some difference in this World like Gandhiji or Tagore or Madame Curie. That capability is in everyone. If I can find how I can excel in life, it will give satisfaction. I won't be frustrated by the unfair situations in this World. A person who could direct his/her efforts in this line would not be frustrated by these types of unfair happenings. Interestingly those who have excelled in this World all had to accept this point as they themselves were treated unfairly in this world. Complaining that my parents ill-treated me and pampered my brother is going to take me nowhere.

Edited by maha2us - 13 years ago

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Mahadevan Venkitaraman

@maha2us

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#18

One last point. My dear sisters! I have all of you in my heart. Whatever I said I meant to hurt no one. If anyone is hurt by what I said, please forgive me.

Edited by maha2us - 13 years ago

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Gisel

@Gisel

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#19

I would like to take the honor of writing the poem😊 !

And I didn't know that version of Ahalya's story. Thanks for the info.

There is one basic point you are trying to point out in all your comments as to "Probably we may be able to accept that the belief of women that they need the support and the protection of men is a false belief." I guess a support of man (real man) is needed by women. In the earlier stages when a father doesn't give that strength or courage, then comes the brother and then of course the husband. A girl today at age of 20, if she says that she is able to face the world and doesn't want to get married (I have heard a lot of my friends say that), that is necessarily because of their fathers. They have given them support, independence, courage and most importantly believed in them.

I, being a girl, know the physical and mental pain, a girl has to undergo throughout her life.

"I am fragile. I am week. I affirm. I speak." One such pain would be when she wants to do something but can not because the society will talk bad of her and her family. Talking about physical pain, it is not just the labor pain which is equal to 20 bones getting fracture at a time, there is much more.

Edited by Gisel - 13 years ago

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Gisel

@Gisel

Voyager

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#20

Men have jumped from dhotis to pants. Women from saris and salwars to pants. And we all know how everyone looks at ..you know want I am saying. This is basically with reference to the Tamil community.

Now let's come to a general community.

Watch the video (from 13.00 to 13.45)

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTLYWXE-wK0[/YOUTUBE]

We can clearly see the bias here.

"You are a women how can you be smoking? Aren't you ashamed?"

I would have liked it better if she said, "When a man isn't ashamed why should I be?"

Well what she says is that it is her personal desire which again no one should question. If someone advises that it is no good for your health, it is more than fine.

Edited by Gisel - 13 years ago

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