Karna - Suta or Sutaputra - Page 2

Pandu's son was Pandava. Pritha's son was Partha. Ganga's son was Gangeya. Suta's son was Sutaputra. There are many occassions when other Sutas were also called "son of Suta". So I think it was a commonly used term to address a Suta servant.
No MB version says Karna never studied under Drona. It is what we discussed & proved in Karna AT.
Karna was not univited in Rangabhoomi. He performed only after getting permission from Drona. If that was a fuction exclusive for princes, Drona would never have given him permission to perform there.

May anybody give a citation here from where I can see that karna had a khastriya father and Brahmin mother???as per my knowledge he was not suta due to that reason...becoz that cases he only considered as khastriya just like chakrovarty samrat ashoka..he also had a khastriya father and Brahmin mother...but when he was Hindu he was very much considered as khastriya.

Intermixture class means those who originated by mixing of two classes...neither adhiratha was a khastriya nor radha maa was an Brahmin...they were very much suta so karna was also considered as suta...till now in India their are poundrakhastriya,ugrakhastriya who were intermixture classes and originated from khsatrita but considered as lower classes.


Every where it was written that ppl redicule karna for His lower class...bheemsen redicule him during rangbhoomi...shaylay redicule him during kurukshetra...


Yudhisthir,bheeshma ,lord Krishna ,lord balaram and some others who were khsatriya but having imance knowledge on Vedas,sastras,scriptures,politics,economics etc...but those immance knowledge were not mandatary for every khastriya...it was their choice to get knowledge on that..even karna as a khsatriya also did not required that...but it was his choice to acquire those knowledge along with warfare science.

Similarly..guru drona,asswathama ,guru kripa many other Brahmins had very good knowledge on warfare..it was their choice to take that..it was not mandatory for everyone.

Keechak was suta but still was worrier is the case of liberal thinking of king virat...if someone was good worrier then what was wrong to made him commander of the army???Hindu caste system is always liberal for eligibility of a person .it is said that a person can become a Brahmin by his saint behaviour...rishi balmiki was the greatest example of that.

Dharmtta vidura was born in shudra joni..but due to his royal linage he had permission to get all the education of higher class ppl and work as a royal ppl...same rules goes to yuyutsu and vrishaketu..

Rejecting someone in sawamvar is absolutely right of a woman...but inviting someone in sawam var and then rejecting him on the basis of his caste is insult...it was clearly written in kmg that drupad never stopped karna for his caste...even there was description where dhristadhammu gladly described that duryadhan along with karna have reached to the place..which indicate that he was very much invited there...in this case draupadi needed to reject him as karna not as a suta...any way here i am giving benefit of doubt to draupadi considering her young age.

But there were no rules in the world who said that a prince only fight with a prince or king or royal ppl..as per rules of manarism of that time anybody give and accept chanllenge of anyone to fight..and if someone rejecting that would be consider as his defeate...even giving challenge to a worrier by an worrier was always considered as a honour for a worrier...i think it was rediculous and instantly made rule of kripacharya only to stop karna to fight with arjuna and save the image of royal family of hastinapur.


Karna was very much student of guru drona during his initial age...he was a suta by caste so he had all the permission to know the warfare also...but not as much as a khsatriya...like bhramhastra it was only for bhramhin and khsatriya...and anybody who read Mb properly she/he should know that karna was rejected by guru drona only then when he express his interest on bhramastra...then he worshiped him and leave his place...which indicate that he never disrespect drona also...but he believed that as an worrier he was eligible to acquire bhramhastra ...even parasuram also never cursed him for all of his knowledge just like starbharat..his curse was only on bhramhastra...he said him he could not use bhramhastra during his crucial time...but rest of the time he would be best to launch and withdraw it...bhrasmastra was a very leathal weapon and it causes harm to the nature...so it would be given only to the high souled persons who can use it properly and not unnessarily harm the nature...guru drona considered him as wicked soul so he rejected...guru parasuram was cursed him becoz he got it in unethical manner..but in that s case also guru drona misjudged karna...becoz later in the epic he was proven the most fair worrier...he never use bhramhastra unnessary...where as aswarhama who was son of guru drone used it in unethical manner...that is another lesson of life...do not judge anyone only on the basis of his caste or outer behaviour or friend circle...a person who you are perceiving a bad one..may be proven an excellent human being in some other aspect.

Nandita please read my post properly




Like I clearly mentioned it was a sports field and not battle field, and it was not open to public. In fact in battlefield also some kings would not lift a weapon on those inferior to them in status, like Bheeshma refused to fight shikhandi and dropped his weapon.

^^^ The above theory about Karna being the product of a Pratiloma marriage is not there in MB - it is there in other literature from the classical ages. Since the divine theory is usually discounted when doing a historical analysis - no history will ever say Krishna was Vishnu - that's where these theories about Karna being biologically born to Radha and being a Suta that way comes up.

It was there in the last few pages of the Doubts & Discussions about the Mahabharat thread. It was pointed out that 4 generations later, Karna's descendants lost Anga to Ghatotkacha's descendants, and took sanyas, thereby adapting Radha's lineage, which was allowed for Pratiloma marriages 4 generations down.

Depends on what one wants to believe - Vyasa or others. Both of whom have serious credibility issues.

Thanks Amrita for putting this out more clearly

Originally posted by: Adishakti

Nandita please read my post properly

I said adirath's father was Kshatriya and mother was a Brahmin and hence Adirath was suta. Similarly Radha was a suta Because Adirath adopted Karna he was called son of suta Adirath or sutaputra. Karna was not a suta he was a sutaputra. His son would be sutapautra. Or grandson of suta. By the way Adirath father lineage is given in harivamsa. And suta definition of caste is as per manusmriti which was followed even then

Second we have discussed this before in MM forum. Karna was invited as a baraati in SV not dulha. Just like Shakuni was and king somdatta of bahlika. KMG clearly mentions Duryodhan and his brothers accompanied by radheyA. When people invite the groom obviously they will be accompanied by their fathers, relatives and friends. But it does not give them all a right to marry the bride.

Shakuni was Draupadi's father age and somdatta was grand father's that is why they didn't participate. Similarly in CE version Karna does not participate. Because he attended as Baraati. Just like all the other princes and kings attended with their relatives and friends

When posting citations, it's better to give complete link of the page so that people can read what is written before and after what you have quoted. When you read the full section it is obvious Karna is uninvited not only that he was not only one getting insulted, he insulted Arjuna too.

Like I clearly mentioned it was a sports field and not battle field, and it was not open to public. In fact in battlefield also some kings would not lift a weapon on those inferior to them in status, like Bheeshma refused to fight shikhandi and dropped his weapon.

As per my knowledge on scripture 2nd or 3rd genaration could not be taken as intermixing of caste...it need atleast more than 3 gens... 😊

And karna insulted arjuna on rangbhoomi????"" 😲 ...pls give me a link of it...even yudi himself was impressed with karna and his valour and considers to himself that there were no worrier like karna.
. 😛

If karna went there as barati only..then as per my common sense the rejection should be come from drupad..not from draupadi...so what are you saying I hv doubt on that...but as I do not not consider draupadi sawamvar a bigger event of the epic so i am dismissing it...it was her swamvar..so she had right to choose.

This is an epic a story written by a particular person on his own point of view to give some lesson of life..and readers have full right to interperte it...after dwapar yug kali yug have come..so accordingly ppl change their mentality also...everything get changed with time...caste system ..racism...is always a curse for Hindu dharma...infact once upon a time it was the main reason of the downfall of Hindu dharma...so knowlegable persons of that time was forced to change the society as per the changing mentality
.

Knowledge is not a thing which can be restricted by caste or class...it should be available for everyone...veda vayas took suta s as their student that also support the restriction...ek class Mein parne se hi sab log ist nehi baan jatey...that means not a teacher should only teach one single person in the class and reject others...that is insult of education system...knowledge is no one's personal property.

Originally posted by: amritat

That is the problem Preeti...People judge everything in Karna's life with a Kayugi mentality...
While I agree that some mistakes and crimes are wrong irrespective of age, most other things depended in the times n the perception of the people living in those times...
The best example of that is polygamy...Once it was a celebrated norm but now it is a crime, atleast in Hinduism.
There was a time when a woman could not raise a finger at her husband marrying again but now a man can be jailed for marrying twice...Which is more correct? For me it is monogamy, bcoz I belong to this age...but not so for women of the old I guess...

I know that the same rules are not applied for everything...It's difficult to say who felt wat...who did wat...n why...
But it's a fact that we have to judge a situation keeping in mind the age in which the characters belonged...
So Morality, despite being absolute is not so absolute...

As per Hinduism polyandry choro polygamy is also restricted now. 😛 ...if Krishna ,Arjun karna born in kaliyug they would go to jail instead of kurukshetra... 😆and off course draupadi also accompied her friend ,husband and brother in law there 😆