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well i have no time to read all discussions now but about Kunti weakening Karna although i hate Kunti but i found in my bengali translation of vyasa MB its presented the way Kunti was not seeming very wrong i could have given citation if people were bengali here but anyway it felt like a mother is saying herself that her son has been distracted (the bengali word was Durmati whose english was wicked by KMG which is not exact translation Durmati can be similar as Matibhrasht in hindi means whose thought process going wrong)

Jhum, mother thinks of son's benefit only on the eve of battle? If she was truly cared for him, she would have told him long back. I know all the excuses, but what prevented her from telling him at least in secret? He would have certainly tried to check Duryodhana if he knew. I dont think Kunti ever gave a second thought to Karna even though he was at Hastinapur most of the time. She was shrewd and ambitious and that was what led her to approach him.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Anu Di,

Draupadi is ONE of the heroes of MB. Actually I prefer to call her the only heroine of MB. The most phenomenal woman character. She was a great woman but how can she be the hero and also only hero of the story? A hero is one person who has a lot to do, and takes the story forward, is in control of most of the events. For me, Kunti is the strongest woman of MB. But Draupadi surely was a turning point in the story. Without her it would not be as it was. But I don't find the logic in calling her the hero of the epic! Mahabharata is no AC where Panchaali is the only great important character, and Krishna the 2nd most and others nothing. It just makes no sense. How could Draupadi even be born without Drona and Drupad's fight, in turn Drona sending ARJUNA to fight and conquer Drupad? And mind you, Panchaali was born for a reason. I believe Panchaali had a much worse life than Karna. Karna had a happy life IMO. Many other characters have worse lives than him. But that does not mean Panchaali is the only great person in the epic.

Originally posted by: KURT15

Jhum, mother thinks of son's benefit only on the eve of battle? If she was truly cared for him, she would have told him long back. I know all the excuses, but what prevented her from telling him at least in secret? He would have certainly tried to check Duryodhana if he knew. I dont think Kunti ever gave a second thought to Karna even though he was at Hastinapur most of the time. She was shrewd and ambitious and that was what led her to approach him.

Patrarekha

Issue ain't translation - even the 'durmati' description doesn't match what Karna had.

Why is it Karna's 'durmati' that he doesn't support Kunti's sons? What had they done to earn his support? The first day they met (discounting the Shanti Parva description of Dury's friendship w/ Karna, whose validity is questionable), Karna's feat was greeted w/ only insults from the Pandavas (Pandavas here meaning Bhima & Arjun, since YNS were statues). Dury OTOH congratulated & supported him. So why shouldn't Karna reciprocate?

I agree w/ Kurt - Kunti may have been a good mother to the Pandavas (actually, she wasn't: if she had any self respect and pride in her sons, she'd have left Hastinapur and spurned Vidura's offer to keep her; also, she would not have left them and gone w/ Dhritarashtra & Gandhari). But she wasn't a mother to Karna at all, and to ask her sons to do his water rites was laughable.

She was an evil soul. She didn't go to Karna to give him anything, and her offer to him was more a bribe than anything else. It was only after his death that her previously suppressed conscience refused to remain suppressed, and now that her sons were safe, she could turn her attention to other things, like Karna's posthumous well being (which was redundant, since Karna was safe w/ Surya-dev). It's a travesty that she ended up w/ Pandu & Madri. She should have been reborn a million times.

I don't agree w/ Brishti that Draupadi is the only heroine, but I don't count Kunti among the heroines at all. She is a villain, and exactly the person I wouldn't want anybody I know to be. For me, Amba is no less a heroine than Draupadi - defying Bheeshma and going through several births until she could be in a position to at least cause his death, if not kill him. While Subhadra & Uttara were peripheral characters, I do sympathize w/ them.

Originally posted by: KURT15

Jhum, mother thinks of son's benefit only on the eve of battle? If she was truly cared for him, she would have told him long back. I know all the excuses, but what prevented her from telling him at least in secret? He would have certainly tried to check Duryodhana if he knew. I dont think Kunti ever gave a second thought to Karna even though he was at Hastinapur most of the time. She was shrewd and ambitious and that was what led her to approach him.

That's been my point. There were an unlimited number of private moments that Kunti could have had w/ both the Pandavas and Karna, and resolved the differences b/w them. Had Arjun & Karna known that they were brothers, they wouldn't have dedicated themselves to killing each other, had this been revealed earlier. After the game of dice, it was too late, but before that, there were 36-40 years that Kunti had to reveal things to them and set things right. Something that she even wished she had done, when she shamelessly left her sons to accompany Dhritarashtra & Gandhari.

well Vrish my question to Brishti was keeping in mind her love for Kunti that she should count Kunti is heroine of MB as well not that i want to count her heroine actually i don't consider anyone hero , heroine and villain of MB i feel even who were there for small time did leave great impact of Mahabharata story. only one most important in MB imo is vedvyasa himself and Vaishampayan as well for giving us chance to discuss MB

Karna only killed Ghatotkacha, so even if she had asked that, nothing would have saved them. Alambusha would still have killed Iravana, Dushashan's son would still have killed Abhimanyu, Ashwatthama would still have killed Prativindya & brothers as well as Anjanparva. Had Karna not killed Ghatotkacha, the Kaurava army would have been wiped out, and it would have been a 1:1 b/w Ghatotkacha & Drona.

but he wouldn't hav been participated in disarming abhimanyu then that might have saved Abhimanyu