All 5 Comparison Scores (by Anurag) - Page 5

Originally posted by: bigmac

I know many will disagree with my scores. Thats ok and like I had mentioned earlier, I completely respect that. I must add though that i think we are perhaps giving top much credit to the mentors authenticity in their judgment and scoring. There is a lot of bias and interest that accompanies that judgment (even from the opposing Gharans's mentors - these guys all work together at the end of the day its "Show Business", with the keyword being "business", so lets not forget that.

I have evaluated these songs with a fine toothed comb and adjudicated them on pretty high standards. Problem with learning and performing music for a long time (I have beeing doing since 4 and I am 33 now) is that it unfortunately trains your ears to pick up minor nuances that are pretty obvious to me but may not be to someone else. I am not sounding my trumpet here - please understand. Its just something I pick up when I listen to music. By and large I have set these contestants renditions to the standards of Kishore, Lata, Rafi, Mukesh, Manna Dey etc. and every time there is a slight error (in my opinion), I make a note of it. The overall song may have sounded very nice to one, but if I gave it a lower score, I may have noted many burn-points where they could have been performed better.

See I think Vinit is a great singer (honestly)> My general issue with him was that he sounds for now more in the boys voice range than in the mens voice range in terms of maturity of voice (maybe a teenage Rafi in the making).

So again, feel free to disagree with me and my scoring, and I totally respect that. Are bhai mentors ne Khaiyyam saab ke judgment ko nahi chhoda to main kis khet ki mooli hoon :).

My only defense is that I know I have scored them on very very high standards, and not used the video at all - its as if I was listening to their singing without having ever seen them. But to be brutally honest, if this was an 'All India Radio' music contest or a 'Sangeet Research Academy' contest, the standards would have been even higher than what I have used. You don't believe me eh :). Better believe it. In that case, the scores would probably have been even lower. Again this doesn't mean these performers are bad. The differences between their average scores are in decimals, so its not that huge.

I am used to the quality of singers than perform in Tansen Samaroh or Savai Gandharva or Gwalior Sangeet Samaroh or the likes of those. Many singers that perform at these festivals are light classical and light music singers who can sing the bollywood songs without much difficulty - they might need some hindi film singing coaching though I am not discounting that aspect of it ofcourse to be fair to everybody. But with some minimal effort, they can perform competitively and quite well.

I think the lesson to learn here is that not everybody makes the effort to get off their couch and work hard to compete in SRGMP or cross great hurdles to get somewhere in the film industry or in life for that matter. So I must give it to these contestants who have worked so hard and have gone through great sacrifices to get there. I know it takes a bucket load of effort that armchair-intellectual talk wont achieve. They are doing it and even if they are not the best, they are good enough for what the market demands. Yes there is always something or someone better, but thats always the case.

this scoring reminds me of an old epi of this show where one contestant got 80-100% from various judges.

but, when abida parveen judged him, he got 30% only. that just goes to show how hard marking can be.

mr. harsh, while i do disagree with your scoring patterns for some songs, could you pick just one song by each of the contestants and give us your analysis? so we could know how you are judging them and where points were deducted? only if you have the time that is.

regards,

Originally posted by: bigmac

I know many will disagree with my scores. Thats ok and like I had mentioned earlier, I completely respect that. I must add though that i think we are perhaps giving top much credit to the mentors authenticity in their judgment and scoring. There is a lot of bias and interest that accompanies that judgment (even from the opposing Gharans's mentors - these guys all work together at the end of the day its "Show Business", with the keyword being "business", so lets not forget that.

I have evaluated these songs with a fine toothed comb and adjudicated them on pretty high standards. Problem with learning and performing music for a long time (I have beeing doing since 4 and I am 33 now) is that it unfortunately trains your ears to pick up minor nuances that are pretty obvious to me but may not be to someone else. I am not sounding my trumpet here - please understand. Its just something I pick up when I listen to music. By and large I have set these contestants renditions to the standards of Kishore, Lata, Rafi, Mukesh, Manna Dey etc. and every time there is a slight error (in my opinion), I make a note of it. The overall song may have sounded very nice to one, but if I gave it a lower score, I may have noted many burn-points where they could have been performed better.

See I think Vinit is a great singer (honestly)> My general issue with him was that he sounds for now more in the boys voice range than in the mens voice range in terms of maturity of voice (maybe a teenage Rafi in the making).

So again, feel free to disagree with me and my scoring, and I totally respect that. Are bhai mentors ne Khaiyyam saab ke judgment ko nahi chhoda to main kis khet ki mooli hoon :).

My only defense is that I know I have scored them on very very high standards, and not used the video at all - its as if I was listening to their singing without having ever seen them. But to be brutally honest, if this was an 'All India Radio' music contest or a 'Sangeet Research Academy' contest, the standards would have been even higher than what I have used. You don't believe me eh :). Better believe it. In that case, the scores would probably have been even lower. Again this doesn't mean these performers are bad. The differences between their average scores are in decimals, so its not that huge.

I am used to the quality of singers than perform in Tansen Samaroh or Savai Gandharva or Gwalior Sangeet Samaroh or the likes of those. Many singers that perform at these festivals are light classical and light music singers who can sing the bollywood songs without much difficulty - they might need some hindi film singing coaching though I am not discounting that aspect of it ofcourse to be fair to everybody. But with some minimal effort, they can perform competitively and quite well.

I think the lesson to learn here is that not everybody makes the effort to get off their couch and work hard to compete in SRGMP or cross great hurdles to get somewhere in the film industry or in life for that matter. So I must give it to these contestants who have worked so hard and have gone through great sacrifices to get there. I know it takes a bucket load of effort that armchair-intellectual talk wont achieve. They are doing it and even if they are not the best, they are good enough for what the market demands. Yes there is always something or someone better, but thats always the case.

first, thanks for a post that fits the width of the screen! 😊

i beg to differ on characterization of savai gandharva. most singers who perfrom are traditional classical singers as opposed to your assertion of light classical/light music. i can't speak for the other two programmes you mentioned.

Originally posted by: bigmac

I really dont understand why people dont read the memos properly. I already said that the first time I had written my comments on the singers they were based on listening to the songs on TV with their videos. Its completely different to listen on good headphones an MP3 recording. Thats why the judges and mentors are given headphones. when I did use the right equipment and put on my critical hat, the results were different.

My results wont change. They are what they are now.

yes, they changed once since yesterday. now they won't change until the next time.😆

Anuragji, I would like your scoring breakdown in the sub-categories as well. Then we can see in what areas the singers should improve. Please, post them.

Anuragji, I would like your scoring breakdown in the sub-categories as well. Then we can see in what areas the singers should improve. Please, post them.

Originally posted by: N Sinha

I went through your website bigmac/Anuraagji, it certainly sounds impressive. Please write after complete analysis & not change your opinion. People see you as a learned musician & if you do so you will be seen as suspicious.
I hope you shall write in great details the nuances of music in your coming posts which common people like us don't understand.
Heartfelt apology once again for wrong language in last thread.

i was impressed too, sinhaji. except when i saw inconsistencies between his two posts, it made me wonder what's going on.

Originally posted by: adwarakanath

Thanks for that wonderful analysis, Anurag saab. Although I do have a couple of minor disagreements, by and large, that is the actual scenerio. Agreed, Nihira's HRHK and Rangeela Re should've been evaluated, too.

I don't actually support giving 10 to any song. Giving 10 means it was perfect. Now, we can't REPRODUCE an original song 100% perfectly, can we? Hence I disagree with the 10 marks for Debo's Jhumroo. I also disagree with the low scores for Vinit's Tera Jadoo.

Please keep in mind two things -

1) Anuragji is a classical musician, and by my experiance, they tend to be perfectionists and technically anal (sorry for sounding rude..😉 ).

2) Mentometers are in reality Mental Meters.

As Anuragji has said, ultimately, what matters is how a song affects a person. Fine. But when you judge, you shouldn't make that matter. As a judge, if you have a favourite song, or a singer, then you aren't worthy to judge.

Those who are pointing out that a technical analysis doesn't make sense, do you people think that when greats like Shiv-Hari etc come and judge, they judge by how they liked the song? No, they unbiasedly judge purely on technical criteria. Ever noticed the headphones they get? They're also high-fidelity headphones. Us laymen see and watch, and it's a fact of science that the sense of sight has the first impression rather than the sense of sound, and that the sense of sight is more pleasing than the sense of sound. When judging music, sense of sight must be compromised to give full leeway to the sense of sound.

I understand what you're trying to say about SRA and AIR contests. As I've mentioned earlier, there's a girl in my college, who's a shishya of Pt. Rajan and Sajan Mishra of the Benaras Gharana. She's been selected as one of the top 50 young vocalists of India last year by SRA. I can safely say that she's way ahead of even Nihira, who's my personal favourite. I was nothing short of spellbound when I heard her own composition in Vrindavai Sarang. Fortunately or Unfortunately, talents like those don't participate in Show Biz Glam Sham shows, and go on to enthrall niche audiences where their art is respected.

I am appalled at the kind of replies Anurag saab is getting. Doubting his credentials. Qwerty, did you bother to check his website? Heard his singing? Reminds you of Pt. Bhimsen Joshi and no less. In India, people of pure arts are highly respected...especially the classical musicians and dancers. You absolutely have no credentials to even talk about Anurag Saab.

Please respect his analysis. There are trained classical singers on this forum. If you trust them, let them come and comment. Let's see what they say. Here, I make an appeal to Raghav, Ruby, Vidyaahji and Bhaktada to please put to rest any notions of biased analyses.

Just my two cents. Thanks. L E S T R A C K 👍🏼

i will start addressing from the top and will update as time permits:

there is no question harsh is trained, and people including me do respect that. i question "by my experience" phrase. what's this experience and how much is it?

i don't dispute we should look at technicality when judging singers. but i question putting number on every aspect of it and taking average. that's plain silly in a subjective field like music.

I dont doubt him at all. In fact Ihave PMed him but he is too busy to answer. I wanted to attend his concert because I was bowled over by his singing.
I made an effort at humor because Tansensez is a trained singer/teacher and his analysis was different from bigmac

Originally posted by: kamleshk

You also missed rating Nihira's top 2 songs... "I Love You/Hare Krishna" & "Rangeela Re" (available on voiceofambition.com).

I encourage you to listen to above two songs right now... you'll be elevated to another world... Trust me!

I too believe that Anurag, you should listen to Nihira's above stated songs. She is flawless in those. I respect your analysis & music training, but Nihira has been applauded even by all the esteemed (other than mentors) judges that have been in the show. She should have got perfect marks in each of the follwing categories: Musicality, Voice Quality, Tone , Style &Pronunciation. That alone would have made her the top contestant.

I agree Debo is better than Vinit, but he is not better than Hema (or Nihira). Maybe you did not include Hema's Ramta Jogi & Nahin Samne that is why he got lower score. I also belive "Vande Matram" is a very difficult song & he sang it pretty well, if not perfect. He should have got higher marks there just because of the difficulty level.

Otherwise, great analysis. It was certainly informative to read!