Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II - Page 49

Awwwww - you've just altered my negative views about Ananda Ramayan already😳😳😳 - Sita rejoining Rama and accompanying him to Vaikuntha. So Lakshman too is part of this return to Vaikuntha - the Ka'al/Durvasa combination doesn't take him down?

Although the flower-collection, battle and singing are so haphazardly combined - one wonders whether soma & sura was something Swami Ananda regularly took before he would write any of these? Also, while Luv was busy getting the flowers, what was Kush doing? Same w/ the battle - it looks here like Luv did all the work, and Kush, like a royal bara-bhaiyya was just, what, having a bath? 😕😕😕

Also, does the swarna-kamal story appear in this version? Or any other?

P.S. I have a new moniker for K-L: Flo-bros😆

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

From the daily-update thread

Vibs

Explicitly, they don't say so, but it's implicit from the following chapters:

7:49 - Valmiki tells the rishi womenfolk that she is the sinless daughter of Janak. That would have told them that it was Sita. Incidentally, the name 'Vandevi' is never used

7:95 - Rama comes to know that K-L were Sita's sons, and that's what prompted him to summon Sita to the yagnashala. The only way he could have known would have been either it being a part of their recitation, or him asking them a direct question and them telling him that they were Sita's kids.

Note that since Sita never lived incognito, Rama, Lakshman (7:52) and Shtrughan (7:66) knew where she lived, everyone in the ashram knew who she really was, it's highly unlikely that K-L were the only ones in the dark. Also, since Valmiki taught them the entire Ramayan (1:4) w/o changing anything, the knowledge that their mother was Sita plus the knowledge that Rama's wife was Sita would have automatically told them who their father really was.

The entire story is a lot more straight-forward than the Tom Clancey wannabes of that era tried to put it.

Originally posted by: Khalrika

Welcome back Vibs! We missed u and ur contributions. What is happening? Ramji is planning the Asvamedha yagna, Valmiki is telling the story of Ramji to Lav-Kush, Satrughan/Lavanasur over, and the nightmare L-K stories are also over. U came back at the right time. Until ur cable gets fixed, can't u see the videos posted on this forum everyday?

Originally posted by: chen2chic

Hey Vibs, welcome back !! Hope you had a wonderful vacation. We truly missed you and your inputs.... But then, not much of serious discussion wrt Ramayan was on all these days.. And as Khalrika said, you are back at the right time..

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I was also of the opinion that they knew about their lineage.

Also Maharishi Valmiki tells the two of them to introduce themselves as disciples of Valmiki and say nothing else about themselves.

One thing I don't understand is that Luv and Kush in the Valmiki Ramayan act like perfect saints - they recite the Ramayan after their mother had gone into the Earth. Was that written by Valmiki too? Did the kids know that they will lose their mother soon when they started for Naimisharanya? I read that Ram listened to the rest of the Uttar Kand in private. Did he know what was about to happen to Lakshman too?

Vibs

That is one of the things I think might have been a latter distortion. Just a psychological analysis would show it's impossible. In 2:103:3, when Rama heard the news of Dasharath's death, he fainted and collapsed on the ground like a tree that had been cut down. And one is supposed to believe that after witnessing the passing of their mother and the shock it produced in their father, his sons were unaffected enough to continue singing? And what was Brahma - another sadist in the image of the Sagar scriptwriters to ask Rama to simply ask them to sing away? I actually think that this portion, like the Shambhuka and the Kalapati de Kalanjar stories, was a later addition.

I don't think the kids knew what would happen to Sita. In 1:4:36, they seem to have sung everything until Sita's exile {Then those two singers, motivated by Rama's words, sang the ballad in maarga system, for they are well versed in it, then even Rama, who is also in the congregation, again to pacify his mind, [for the story of Seetha puts his mind to turmoil,] became interested at heart [to continue listening Seetha's story...] }, so it's not true as is sometimes claimed that they sang only until the end of the Yudha-kand. If true, they probably received that knowledge of what would happen to Rama in the aftermath of Sita's passing, not before. But no, I don't find that believable.

I also read that K-L sang the remainder of the story to the rishis and other audience, but not to RLBS or UMS or KSK. But if that was the case, how would Rama get calm if he wasn't there to listen to the rest of the story? I think that after that, he probably took them and turned them over to Kaushalya, and continued w/ the yagna.

Originally posted by: Khalrika

Yes, Valmiki teaches her the method to do the pooja to reunite with Ramji. This is the episode they r gonna show. I really do want to see the confrontation between Lav and Ramji in Ayodhya. The 2 brothers sneak into the garden in the palace which has a pond with the special lotuses.

Ananya

Chatter asks a good question. When Sita took her vow, were K-L there to witness it in the original Valmiki? If no, that alone might explain how they managed to be composed. Also, when they sung all this, were they supposed to be empty minded and not think an iota of what they were singing? B'cos if they were to sing of Sita's demise, that too would have traumatized them, even if they weren't there to witness it.

Originally posted by: Chandraketu