Ram and Krushna & Ramayan & Mahabharat-Comparison - Page 3

Originally posted by: ananyacool

One thing I forgot to mention about differences in abductions was that Sita was a married woman (when abducted) while Rukmini wasn't , point is that In Treta yuga even in dwapar yuga abducting a married woman was one of the gravest sins and punishment for that was a death sentence or being exiled.

Shri Krishna's marriage to Rukmini is called 'Rakshas Vivah' as it was a common practise among Rakshas to abuduct girls and get married.

One thing common about Rama and Krishna is that both , showed to this world how to be above all desires even while being involved in this material world; Inspite of leading a married life both Ram and Krishna are known as Rajarishi and Yogeshwar respectively. Both were hailed as 'Yuga-purusha'.

Originally posted by: ananyacool

You have forgotten to mention about 'Ram-gita' and Krishna gita in your comparison😉 I think , it was u who posted abt Ram-gita sometime back. Do add that link here.

Originally posted by: rajnish_here

Nope , I am also confused as you,😕 and agree Balram posses right to become king as he was elder
and yes the succession of maternal grandfather is not followed at that time, so how come Vashuded succeded ugrasena in kingship. might be possible as ugrasena has no better succesor he installed vashudev as king

Originally posted by: rajnish_here

2. Rama and Krushna

1. First slaying of a woman- Ram- Tarika and Krushna Putana
2. Son of the Sun deity- Ram protected Sugreev son of the son deity whereas Krushna made Arjun slay Karna, son of the Sun deity
3. Son of Lord Indra- Ram slayed Vali, the son of Indra whereas Krushna helped Arjun, son of Indra on the battlefield
4. Accepting others' advice- Ram often accepted whereas Krushna never accepted
5. Mission- Ram mission was to Set an example to others by carrying it out Himself whereas Undertook it Himself and often also got it done from others
6. Acquisition of the title Shri [Shri (opulence) itself comes to the one who deserves it]- First Ram Name was Rama. After slaying Ravan it became Shrirama similarly First His Name was Krushna. After slaying Kansa it became Shrikrushna
7. Abandonment of a woman- Ram even deserted His wife according to the circumstances but Krushna ,Despite criticism of beingwith the gopis , never
   abandoned them
8. Ideal king- Ram was Rule of Righteousness(Ramarajya) but Krushna never ascended the throne. Krishna ruled Mathura for a few years then he established the kingdom of Dwarika. One differnce is that Ram did Ashwamedha yagna but Krishna didnt but rather He helped Yudhistir to do became a Chakravarty king
   
9. Behaviour during the period of prosperity and adverse times- Ram illustrated how a king should behave during the prosperous period and Krushna showed how a king should behave during the adverse times.

4. Religious life

A. Living within the limitations of Righteousness (Dharma)- For Ram its always, hence He is called the Supreme limit of Righteousness (Maryada-purushottam). (Nowadays limitations are called bondages!) But for Krushna its Depending on the situation, at times. He crossed the limitations of Righteousness He did diplomacy ...lied but the aim of all these was Dharma (righteousness) and not breach of Dharma ; but in reality since He was one beyond the three components, The Supreme Being performing the divine sport (Lilapurushottam) and The Absolute Supreme Being (Purnapurushottam) He was always beyond limitations. (Only those who are within the three components are bound by norms and restrictions, righteous limitations, etc.)

B. Living and teaching others- Ram lived it Himself But Krushna Besides living it Himself.. this proposition is not clear to meHe taught it to others-Hence the quote goes Krushna vande Jagatgurum (Salutation O Lord Krushna, the teacher of the universe')

C. Guidance to society- Ram did it through unity of family and krushna By performing various actions in the society

D. Spread of Righteousness- Ram- through righteous behaviour , Krushna - According to the situation even by crossing the limitations of Righteousness

E. The yogi and the one engrossed in worldly pleasures- Ram was a yogi yet He led a worldly life and krushna ,Though He led a life of worldly pleasures He was a yogi (The Lord of Yoga - Yogeshvar)

F. Miracles- Since Brahman is obscured by the covering of the Great Illusion (Maya) Ram did not perform
miracles whereas Great Illusion is surrounded by Brahman. Hence even in childhood Krushna performed miracles

5. Type of life led outwardly
Ram experienced several unhappy events whereas Krushna was always happy

6. Incarnations and others

A. Impression of the people regarding His temperament- Ram- Composed, serious, Krushna- Naughty, mischievous

B. How did people behave with Him?- Ram-They were reserved, Krushna- They were open, free

I think reserved word is not apt for Lord Ram. He was very friendly towards all. He nature was very pleasant. One can say He was more straight forward than Lord Krishna. Whereas Lord krishna was more diplomatic than Lord Ram. But Ram use to hide his sorrow or anger. He conquered them. He was not straightforward here

sa cha nityaM prashaantaatmaa mR^idupuurvaM tu bhaashhate |
uchyamaano.api parushhaM nottaraM pratipadyate || 2-1-10
That Rama was always peaceful in mind and spoke softly. He did not react to the hard words spoken by others.

saanukrosho jitakrodho braahmaNapratipuujakaH |
diinaanukampii dharmajJno nityaM pragrahavaan shuchiH || 2-1-15
He had compassion. He conquered anger. He used to be receptive and worshipful to the wise. He had mercy towards the meek. He knew what was to be done. He had always self-control. He was clean (in conduct).

kalyaaNaabhijanaH saadhuradiinaH satyavaagR^ijuH |
vR^iddhairabhiviniitashcha dvijairdharmaarthadarshibhiH || 2-1-21
Rama, having born in a good clan, was gentle minded. He was not feeble. He spoke truth. He was straightforward. He was properly trained by elderly wise men that knew righteousness.

nibhR^itaH saMvR^itaakaaro guptamantraH sahaayavaan |
amoghakrodhaharshhashcha tyaagasaMyamakaalavit || 2-1-23
Rama was humble. He did not let his feelings appear outwardly. He kept his thoughts to himself. He helped others. His anger and pleasure were not wasteful. He knew when to give and when not to give.--I think this quality is something common in both of them


C. Feeling of the common man for Him- Ram- Respect, Krushna- love.Here too I disagree

na chaanR^itakatho vidvaan vR^iddhaanaaM pratipuujakaH |
anuraktaH prajaabhishcha prajaashchaapyanurajyate || 2-1-14
He (Ram) did not speak untruth. He was all knowing. He used to be receptive and worshipful to the elders. People used to love him and he used to love the people.

sa tu sreshhThairguNairyuktaH prajaanaaM paarthivaatmajaH |
bahishchara iva praaNo babhuuva guNataH priyaH || 2-1-19
People loved the virtuous prince Rama and treated him as their spirit moving outside.

saMgraamaatpunaraagamya kuN^jareNa rathena vaa || 2-2-37
pauraan svajanavannityam kushalaM paripR^ichchhati |
putreshhvagnishhu daareshhu preshhyashishhyagaNeshhu cha || 2-2-38
nikhilenaanupuurvyaachcha pitaa putraanivaurasaan |
After returning from battle, Rama goes to citizens on an elephant or a chariot and inquires about their well being as though they were his own kinsmen, like a father does to his sons. He asks about their wives and children, about the sacred fires, about their servants and students, always completely as per the due order




7. Renunciation of the body

A. Method- Ram- Jalsamadhi, Krushna- Pretence of being injured with a hunter's arrow

B. Perishing of the inhabitants of the city after the renunciation of the body- After Rama's renunciation of the body inhabitants of Ayodhya renounced their bodies in the Sharayu river whereas Before the end of Krushna's incarnation inhabitants of Dvaraka fought amongst themselves and died. After His renunciation Dvaraka too got submerged[See second post]

8. According to the science of kalas (kalashastra)

Ram- 12 kalas, Krushn- 16 kalas [See second post]

10. Progress in spiritual practice from the seeker's point of view

As one chants Rama's Name, one can merge into Him By chanting Krushna's Name one does not acquire His form; because the entire universe itself is composed of Krushna!

Note-The spelling 'Krushna' is used instead of 'Krishna' as it is more appropriate and in accordance with Sanskrit pronunciation.

Originally posted by: rajnish_here

Nope , I am also confused as you,😕 and agree Balram posses right to become king as he was elder
and yes the succession of maternal grandfather is not followed at that time, so how come Vashuded succeded ugrasena in kingship. might be possible as ugrasena has no better succesor he installed vashudev as king

The one case of maternal succession I know of was Chitrangada. Since her father had no sons, he allowed Arjun to marry his daughter only on condition that her son would be an inheritor tohis kingdom, and not the Pandavas'. Since Babruvahana wouldn't have stood to succeed Yudhisthir anyway (although I wonder whether Yudhisthir wished that once the war was over?), Arjun had no problem accepting the request. Another by-product of this decision that Babruvahana was the only surviving son of Arjun after the war.

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

First of all Great Work Rajnish!!! Good Analysis! 👏

I think Balram was convinced every time he had a different opinion. Abhimanyu's marriage with Balram's daughter - Balram was not in favour of it but Krishna had his own way - This time Balram did not listen to Krishna but was convinced in the end after they had got married.

...............

A very well thought of analysis, Rajnish.

Great Work!!!⭐️⭐️⭐️

I couldn't just comment on the points I had different views about without changing the original format and hence I had posted it like this. Apologies if this became too tedious for reading.

I had written about the comparison of Ramayan and Skanda Puran earlier but never have I compared Ramayan and Mahabharat. 😉

Back to the original point, the best 2 cases of Krishna overriding Balarama was Subhadra's marriage to Arjun, and Bhima's smashing Duryodhan's thigh with his mace. I don't know that there were any others - do you?

Originally posted by: Chandraketu

I've read of Abhimanyu's marriage to Balarama's daughter only in the ACK on Ghatotkacha, but even there, Krishna was uninvolved. I doubt this story, as well as some of the online Purana accounts that have had cousin marriages in Krishna's family, (mainly Pradyumna's marriage to Rukmi's daughter Rukmavati and Anirudha's marriage to Rukmi's grandaughter Rochana). Reason I doubt it is that according to the shastras, Kshatriyas were/are supposed to have seven generations of separation between 2 people before they are allowed to marry. Krishna & his family were all Kshatriyas so I consider it highly unlikely that they'd have broken such a cardinal rule. Also, in Abhimanyu's case, he was 16 when he died, and married to Uttara for 6 months, meaning he was either 15 or 16 when he married. The supposed incident with Balarama's daughter took place during the Pandava exile, so he'd have had to be 14 or less, and Balarama's daughter even younger. While child marriage was undoubtedly common, I doubt that Krishna would have allowed, much less pressed, Balarama to giving his daughter into a marriage where she was bound to be widowed very soon. Also, there is no account of Balarama's daughter in the Mahabharat, and had there been, she'd have beensenior to Uttara, and may even have had a child before Parikshit. A son of Krishna's nephew & Balaram's daughter would surely have been a pride of the Pandavas for the Yuvraj spot, don't ya think?

Back to the original point, the best 2 cases of Krishna overriding Balarama was Subhadra's marriage to Arjun, and Bhima's smashing Duryodhan's thigh with his mace. I don't know that there were any others - do you?

Originally posted by: rajnish_here

3. Begining- Ramayan Begins from Lav and Kush it includes the history of the previous seven generations and Mahabharata begins from King Janmejay and includes the history of the previous seven generations

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

There might be a doubt as to whether Abhimanyu married Balrama's daughter. But Arjun married Shubhadhra who definitely was his cousin - isn't it so? According to the story I read, Balrama, though he initially promised to give his daughter in marriage to Abhimanyu, did not want to his daughter to suffer the pains of living in the forest with the Pandavas (as they were in exile at that time). Hence, Balarama, readily agreed to give his daugter to Duryodhan's son. I do not know who sent the message to Shubhadhra about this (either it was Krishna himself or he arranged for someone else to send the message). Shubhadhra came to ask her brother about this. On the way they met Hidimba and Ghatotkach and stayed there while Ghatotkach vowed to assist in this matter. The marriage was performed in the forest itself with Indra filling in for Arjun who was not present at that time. It was said that either Krishna directly sent for Indra or sent message through someone else for Indra to take up the groom's father's place in the marriage. Ghatotkach met Krishna as soon as he reached the palace and informed him of his arrival and intentions. Krishna feigned sickness and kept away from all preparations - Rukmini commented why he was deceiving everybody when he was so jubilant regarding Abhimanyu's marriage with Sundari, Balarama's daughter (I think the name is different in different versions - in the South, its Sundari - sometimes its Vatsala - some versions mention Vatsala to be another wife which I think is highly impossible). I don't think they had time to have a child as the marriage with Uttara follwed and the war followed that event very soon.

In the South this story is quite famous as the legend of Abhimanyu Sundari - many films, plays, serials, dances other rural arts like puppet shows, roadside shows have portrayed this story. It is a common culture in the South for the brother's children to marry the sister's. If the sister had a son and the brother had a daughter of age - they were promptly brought together by marriage. There are instances of the women marrying uncles as well. The sister's daughter is sometimes given in marriage to her maternal uncle (younger brother of her mother). It has been followed for a long time.

I cannot recall any other incident where Balarama was overruled by Krishna except the two you have already mentioned. But when Duryodhan wanted Balarama to fight for his side, Balarama refused saying that Krishna doesn't want to fight and hence he won't fight as well. There was one incident in which Balaram took initiative in an issue which Krishna had abandoned - rescuing Samba from the Kauravas.