Khalrika
I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with it. I missed last night's episode and was hoping to catch it this morning, but NDTVI now plays fast & loose with TV timings - they are genuinely🤬
Originally posted by: Khalrika
I don't think Sita thinks that Ramji would ever take them back to the palace. She probably saw only a hermit life for them and it is very logical that she wants them to get used to sleeping on the kusa grass. It is a sentiment I do understand. When the kids sing before Ramji they do reject Ramji's very generous compensation of 18,000 gold coins saying that they live in an ashram and these material things are useless to them.
This is what Lava and Kusa reply to Ramji "Of what use are these for us. We reside in the forest and subsist of fruits and roots. What shall we do with gold and silver coins in the forest."
On the 18000 gold coins refusal, Valmiki explicitly asked K-L to decline it, as Ananya points out below. Now you may have your own interpretation of why he asked them to, but the way I read it, the reason for that was that they were Kshatriyas, and therefore accepting alms like that from a king would be a violation of kshatriya behavior. Note that this would be different from what they'd do in the gurukul, where they'd learn begging in order to inculcate a sense of humility, but beyond that, it would have been disgraceful for a kshatriya to accept alms, let alone beg for them.
Originally posted by: Khalrika
Also, Sita is not sure that Ramji would ever take them to the palace. When they r born, I don't think she knows that Rishi Valmiki would train them to sing before Ramji; maybe later but not at their birth.
The ashram may be well supplied but it did not have luxuries. The Rishis and the ashramvasis ate only fruits and roots. They slept on the floor, on the kusa grass and lived in huts made of bamboo and straw roofs. I think it is very logical that Sita wanted the children to get used to ashram life very early because that was the way they were supposed to live. Maybe Valmiki had vision to see the future but Sita did not.
There is no talk of child labor here. I am sorry but many on this forum are seeing this epic from a 21 century perspective!!!!!!!!!! That was the way of the earlier age. After the yagnopaveetam (the sacred thread ceremony) the kids got their shikshah from their guru. They also had to do a lot of chores such as:
1. Go and "beg" for food and grains every day. If u remember, they showed that when Ramji and his brothers went to Vashisth's gurukul. Remeber "bikshan dehe" from all the kids? This was done in the olden days.
2. They had to bring firewood from the forest
3. They had to bathe, feed, and take care of all the cows and other animals in the ashram.
4. I am sure they were probably involved in the cooking (probably very simple food other than roots and fruits), repairing the huts and other areas, taking care of the grounds by keeping it neat and clean, planting trees and shrubs, and other such work. It is very hard work when combined with daily education. Sita wanting her children to get used to that life from very early on is very understandable.
Yeah, but at what age did RLBS do those things? 6? I know Valmiki doesn't mention their age, but they would have been around, say, 8 when they left for Gurukul, and returned when 14 (since Taraka happened at 15). Here, we are talking about babies at this point. RLBS weren't sent to Vashishtha's ashram when they were toddlers.
Originally posted by: Khalrika
Sitaji had no clue that at the age of 12 they would return to their father and the life in the palace. She did think that the ashram life was the only life they would know therefore making her statements very logical.
As far as Lavanasur is concerned, we are all partly to blame. We made so much fun of Lavanasur that the Sagars chickened out. It is my opinion that they read stuff posted on this forum.
They aren't listening to us on all the other things, so what made them chicken out here?😲😲
Originally posted by: ananyacool
Making tender babies sleep on a bedspread is not a luxury, as Lalitha said , it did sound rude when Sitaji denies them specially when the lady says that she had walked for 10 kroshas n got it for the babies through charity. I don't agree with the way its shown , Sitaji wanting that her children face hardships is fair enough but not with the tender babies (six days old) Theres one scene where she just leaves the babies in open air, under a tree!😕 that was heights. Nobody does that, saying that the kids should face hardships.
Exactly - granted Treta Yuga wasn't 21st century, but neither was it Denmark, where kids are left outside restaurants in strollers. This stuff is unbelievable.
Originally posted by: ananyacool
Here again I say that rishi ashramas were well to do better say self -sufficient and given that the family of Valmiki were bards and they enjoyed special privileges from the kings. Certainly they didn't have any dearth for food grains n clothes, again here I am not saying that used to get grants in gold coins from the kings. The rishi ashramas also had huge number of cows. Having cows is a sign of prosperity, even now.
As far as rishis and ashramvasis ate only simple food ,there is age old controversy that goes on that rishis n ashramavasis did eat meat when sacrificial yajnas took place( which took place once in a while). Its just that I am not keen on discussing this here.
Not only that, but in Rama rajya, there was no paucity of things anywhere in the kingdom - everybody was prosperous. Rama also made it a point in particular to make sure Brahmins were well fed and supplied, and these supplies were more often then not in kind - clothes, cows, pottery, etc. Having cows was a major status symbol, and cows in those days were like GOOG stocks (when Rama was exiled, he reassured Kaushalya reminding her of the number of cows that were there in her name). So it's unthinkable that even ordinary villagers had to live a life of hardship, particularly in Rama rajya.
Originally posted by: ananyacool
Also the begging part is only done in the initial days of student life when they take a 'diksha' or when they go through yajnopavIta sanskar not the whole part of student life. B t w today, toddler Kush n Lav were shown wearing the sacred thread around their shoulders , that means they already had undergone YajnopavIta sanskar n it wasn't shown in the serial now if they show yajnopavIta of K-L in comin epi, it'll be a big blooper again!!
Yes the students did all the chores in rishi ashrama ,they also learnt how to build parnakuti, boats,rafts even learnt carpentry making arms and this depended on the students interest;
At what age range did such activities take place? A more basic question - wasn't Yajnopavta sanskar something that only Brahmins did?
Originally posted by: Khalrika
This is what Lava and Kusa reply to Ramji "Of what use are these for us. We reside in the forest and subsist of fruits and roots. What shall we do with gold and silver coins in the forest."
Originally posted by: ananyacool
This they do because their guru specifically asks them to(7-93-24), not that I intend to say that the kids wanted gold coins but its a peculiar reason that bards usually don't accept coins/cash because they feel that makes them greedy.; This I am saying because I personally have seen bards singing, in my childhood and they used to visit our house ,every summer evening singing about our family ancestors. Never once did they accept money from us instead they used to ask for clothes, food grains ; school text books, toys for their kids.
Yeah, but K-L didn't, and weren't asked to ask for those things in kind either. Reason was probably that Valmiki did not want them to end up accepting alms from their father, which would have disgraced their lineage. Had they been Brahmin kids, they'd probably have accepted gifts in kind. Note that during the yagna, they only accepted the fruits and berries that were distributed to the rishis.
But like I said above, since they were Kshatriyas and Valmiki probably knew that the right thing for them was to be returned to Rama once Sita was gone, he had them not accept anything, as true kshatriyas.
Originally posted by: ananyacool
I also feel that the reason Ramji chose Valmiki ashram for Sitaji's exile is that Valmikis were accomplished bards n they knew all about Raghuvamsha ,it would be easier for K-L to learn about their great clan and at the same time being shielded from the gossips that were circulating in the city.
Except that in this serial, all the gossips were happening around the ashram
Originally posted by: ananyacool
Theres nothing wrong in writing what we feel.
Ramayan is very close to our hearts n when things aregoing wrong ,nay bizzaire ,we vent out our feelings hoping for better
Precisely! Again, I respect the opinion of those who are liking things the way it's currenly being shown, but it's nothing close to the Ramayan we all know & love. Incidentally, I too knew quite a number of things differently, but when I read the original Valmiki for references and find out something that contradicts what I knew earlier, I usually readily embrace it (unless it's something bizarre about Sita getting married at 6, or Narad telling Rama that practice of agriculture spreads adharma)
I can understand (though not agree) if the Sagars were to use some version other than Valmiki that's generally known and recognized, be it Tulsidas, Kamban, Vyasa, et al. But the stuff they are using is unrecognizable to any of us, and most of it is simply lifted from the previous serial, which though better, itself did its own inventing. As it is, this chapter in Rama's life is controversial to begin with, and when they start throwing in their own inventions, it makes a chapter that's difficult to understand only worse. That's the reason so many of us are having a major problem with this storyline.
Edited by Chandraketu - 16 years ago
Indian Mythology
