Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 56

^^^ exactly my point while it's undisputed that Arjun and Bheem were better warriors, assuming that Karna, Ashwathama and even Bheeshm Drona despite being elders weren't nothing is an extreme I believe. They were warriors and well trained, they must have had war experiences too (just that we didn't get to know about it because we spent most of our time with the Pandavas) again not being war trained doesn't mean being less in valour as Abhimanyu undoubtedly had even lesser experience than Karna and he was better by miles. Even Vrishsen had defeated much more war pro Drupad and returned after causing heavy blood bath having entered the Pandavas camp on evening 14.

Bheem didn't hesitate to opt for Adharma while hitting Duryodhan below the belt so it wasn't just for the sake of Dharma that the war extended so long.

First day they didn't directly combat with any elders and yet they lost the day's battle by huge margin

I think we can't completely dismiss the entire Kauravas clan as a group of amateurs

Its a fact that Drona Kripa and Ashwatthama had no battle experieNce. They had knowledge to be the gurus. But no experience. I am not restricting myself to MB here but all the puranas as well.

That was the primary reason of loyalty of these three to the kuru. They provided their vassal with protection against Drupad.

Its like Finance professor in My college He is a phd and teaches accounts well but cant file His own income tax returns. I help him. He Keeps his money in FD and is scared of investing in mutual funds and stocks. This when he knows everything that needs to be known about them.

Knowledge of weapons is very different from using them in a battle field which involves risk of life and bodyily harm

I Dont believe in divine magical weapons. I do believe in skill, knowledge and experience of warriors with weapons

Arjuna, Bhima Satyaki Dhrishtadyumna had that

In Kourava army Duryodhan, his brothers and Karna had that but they lost many of those battles. They were part of Jarasandh army attacking Mathura as well a battle in Kalinga They won They fought with panchalas that they lost, Karna did conquer the east and smaller kongdoms

Jayadrath conquered the entire west other than dwarka

Bhagadutta was a good warrior

Avanti brothers were good warriorS

Susharma was decent

Kritaverma was a good warrior.

Shalya was the most experienced warrior amongst the kouravas after Bhishma.

Oandavas had the experienxe and battle victories but smaller army

Kouravas (other than Drona Kripa and Ashwi) had experience even if they had a lot of lost battles and definetly twice the size of army.

By divyastras I meant speciality weapon.

Agneyastra was very likely fire-tipped arrow.

Nagastra was likely poison-tipped.

Naranyanastra was likely chemical weaponry rigged to some sort of magnetic weapon.

Brahmastra/Brahmashira were likely weapons with hallucinogens.

So on and so forth.

Nagastra was used time and again by Karna on Arjuna and Krishna. Krishna gets hit several times. Shakthi was used by Karna against Ghatotkatcha. Narayanastra was used by Ashwathhma as was Brahmastra.

Pandavas didn't just not use speciality weapons against Kuru elders. They did't use them at all except Arjuna with Jayadratha and Ashwatthama after the homicidal spree.

There is only one reason I can logically reach. They didn't have enough.

By Divyastras I didn't mean some extra terrestrial weapons, obviously those aren't real. I meant some weapons which were much better in features, accuracy and speciality than the other weapons of that era

Maybe some early form of explosives, or some special weapons which gave huge results.

Nagastra and Agneyastra were superior weapons over normal bow and arrow but they weren't Divyastra I think

Brahmshira n Brahmastra and Narayanastra were probably some early explosive kind of weapons npt everyone could be given those, only the ones who are brilliant and have precision could handle them

About army strength I agree completely Arjun and Bheem were much superior to Kaurav clan, my point however was that even Kaurav clan had warriors and dreaded ones. It wasn't without a reason that Kunti wanted to weaken Karna by her fake offer. They couldn't just be discarded as a bunch of overzealous amateurs.

Agreed to your point on Drona family extension

https://eshe.in/2021/03/04/women-with-disability-in-mythology/

thoughts

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

https://eshe.in/2021/03/04/women-with-disability-in-mythology/

thoughts

Agree.

But I do not think Laxmana acted against Kshatriya Dharma when he disfigured Surpanakha.

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

thoughts

1. Meenakshi/Surpanakha. I'm in 2 minds. IIRC, she tried to attack Sita which was when Lakshmana used the sword. If she didn't strike first, Lakshmana was 100% in the wrong.

2. Manthara. TBH, Dasharatha was in the wrong. He made a binding agreement to make Kaikeyi's son the king and then acted like it never happened. Manthara's loyalty was to her mistress, and she gave advice.

3. Gandhari. As the article says, she chose to be disabled. However, the writer makes the same mistake she accuses MBh of making. There is enough about Gandhari's bad behavior in the text.

Let's start with the fact it was a passive-aggressive protest against Bheeshma's high-handedness in deciding she would marry the blind prince. She was clearly not an idiot. She knew her being Dhritharashtra's eyes would be important for Hastinapuri.

However, she deserves some leeway in this as this was her only way of objecting.

But... when her sons committed all those atrocities, she chose to stay blind, literally and metaphorically.

In the dice hall, she wouldn't speak up for a daughter-in-law who was being sexually assaulted until it became clear her sons would pay for it.

Everyone talks about her curse to Krishna and how he accepted it.

Very few seem to know what Krishna said to Gandhari after the war.

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m11/m11025.htm

"The holy one said, ‘Arise, arise, O Gandhari, do not set thy heart on grief! Through thy fault, this vast carnage has taken place! Thy son Duryodhana was wicked-souled, envious, and exceedingly arrogant. Applauding his wicked acts, thou regardest them to be good. Exceedingly cruel, he was the embodiment of hostilities, and disobedient to the injunctions of the old. Why dost thou wish to ascribe thy own faults to me? Dead or lost, the person that grieves for what has already occurred, obtaineth more grief. By indulging in grief, one increases it two-fold. A woman of the regenerate class bears children for the practice of austerities; the cow brings forth offspring for bearing burdens; the mare brings forth her young for acquiring speed of motion; the Shudra woman bears a child for adding to the number of servitors; the Vaishya woman for adding to the number of keepers of cattle. A princess, however, like thee, brings forth sons for being slaughtered!’"

Vaishampayana said, "Hearing these words of Vasudeva that were disagreeable to her, Gandhari, with heart exceedingly agitated by grief, remained silent. T

I find it difficult to sympathize with her because unlike what the shows portray, she and Dhritharastra were both encouraging of their sons' misdeeds.

Valmiki Ramayana doesnt have a lot of details that other puranas cover.

There is more to surpanaka story than what is there in Ramayanaa.

Ravan's father Rishi Vishrava was son of Rishi Pulastya. He married Rishi Bharadwaj's daughtet Ilavida (devarahini) and had a son Kubera.

Pulastya was chief of Rakshas and Yaksha tribes. By the time Kubera grew up, he felt the need to consolidate all rakshas and yaksha clans and give them an independent kingdom

Vishrava suggested Lanka where Vishwakarma family built him a golden fortified city.

Kubera then got busy running the kingdom. Made it extremely prosperous and wealthy.

Vishrava stayed back in his asram but felt neglected by his son. Wife had most likely doed by then.

Kubera here made the biggest mistake of his life.

He chose his commander Rakshas Sumali's three daughters as bride for his father and sent them to him.

These three sisters were Kaikesi (Pushpotaka), Malini and Raka

All the three women had 3 sons and 1 daughter.

Kaikesi had Ravana Kumbhakarna Vibhishan and Surpanaka (Meenakshi)

Ravana when he grew up, chased kubera out of lanka with his family and became chief of Rakshas. He controlled Lanka but he established his step brothers and sisters as kings of independent kingdoms. Surpanaka was married to kalakeya Rakshas (from a region north oF himalayas) Viddyujjiva(not To confuse with her step bro who had the same name). She was widowed when Ravana attacked Kalakeyas and killed her husband. Ravana pacified her by asking her to choose a new husband. She had a son Sambukumar

Malini's children were 3 sons Mahodara, Prahasta, Khara, Mahapamsu and daughter Kumbhinasi.

These guys were given teritory south of godavari with capital at Chitrakoot Janasthan and Panchavati. Sister Kubhinasi was given as bride to king oF Mathura her son was famous Lavansur

Raka had 4 children too Trisiras, Vidyutjiva, Dusana and Tadaka (also known as Asalika)

They were given rights over land north of godavari all the way upto banks of River Ganga.

Tataka was married to Sunda a yaksha and ruled Karusha teritory (area near nagpur) She became a widow wheb Agastya killed her husband. She then ruled the kingdom with her sons Subahu and Maricha.

Kubera took refuge in the gandhamadana mountains (nepal) with rakshas and yaksha loyal to him

Now note what Rama and Lakshmana did

Before Sita was kidnapped

1. Killed Tadaka and her son Subahu under orders from Vishwamitra. Karusha then went tp suryavanshi rule

2. Came to Chitrakoot during exile killed surpanaka's son Sambukumar under the instructions of RishiS of Dandakaranya.

After this surpanaka approached Rama got mutiliated and Sita was kidnapped.

3. Then proceeded to kill Khara and his 1 brother as well as Dusan and 2 brotherS in 3 separate battles.

4. Kills Tadaka's surving son Mareech who was disguised as golden deer.

Sita gets kidnapped.

At this point Ravana has kumbhakarana Vibhishan and their sons alive along with one step brother Prahasta (Khara's brother) in Lanka and one stepsister Kumbhinasi and her family in mathura.

Rama then proceeds to kill everyone in Lanka except vibhishan and his sons who accept him as lord.

Brings back Sita.

After this Shatrughan proceeds to Mathura and kills the only other surviving family of kumbinasi, her husband and son lavanasura and occupies Mathura. Mathura goes to him and his sons

Lakshmana and his sons were given all the teritory between Narmada and Godavari.

Bharat and his sons get their mom kaikeyi's kingdom. He however annexes Gandhara too and adds to his teritory.

Surpanaka did not cause Lanka war..Rama and Lakshaman started it with Karusha kingdom, where they settle their cousins. And over a period of several years take over all the teritories of Ravana.

By the way Surpanaka Tadaka and Kumbhinasi were not just king's wife. They were independent strong women who controlled teritories of their own. Tadaka ruled Karusha.

Do note Rama and Lakshmana started the war against Ravanavs family much before they met Surpanaka and Sita was kidnapped.

Rishis of Dankaranya like Vishwamitra Agastya Atri and Sarabhanga specifically point out Ravanavs brothers and sisters, provide weaponry and strategic support to kill them.

Just like Mahabharat war would have happened even if Draupadi was not humiliated

Similarly Rama Ravana war would have happened even if Sita was not kidnapped or surpanaka mutilated.

Hidimbi the rakshasi wife of Bhima descended from Kubera side of the tribe not the Ravana side.

Ghatothkach had the family heirloom Rishi Pulastya's bow. He used it in the MB war. MB time kubera whom bhima defeated was most likely Ghatothkach's uncle.