Sleet of Emotional Quivers on RadhaKrishn Love CC#10/DT Nt Pg#41 - Page 54

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

By the way people why do you think Arjun didn't use Divyastras in the war?

For some reason I don't buy the reason that they wanted to give Kauravas a fair chance. I mean had they used Divyastras and ended the war earlier, many innocent soldiers would have been saved. This makes absolutely no sense to prolong the war just because you want to give opponents a fair chance

Which Divyastra? Brahmashira and Pashupat? Or something else?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

By the way people why do you think Arjun didn't use Divyastras in the war?

For some reason I don't buy the reason that they wanted to give Kauravas a fair chance. I mean had they used Divyastras and ended the war earlier, many innocent soldiers would have been saved. This makes absolutely no sense to prolong the war just because you want to give opponents a fair chance

Arjun did use Divya astra in the war. There are some that he did possess, but did not use, like pashu patastra.

Which astra are you talking about?

Originally posted by: diksha710

Arjun did use Divya astra in the war. There are some that he did possess, but did not use, like pashu patastra.

Which astra are you talking about?

He didn't use Pashupatastra, didn't use Brahmastra(till Ashwathama initiated).

Which Divyastra did he use?

The Pandavas fans always give a reason that he did that because he didn't want to have an unfair advantage over Kauravas that's something I don't believe

Originally posted by: vyapti

Which Divyastra? Brahmashira and Pashupat? Or something else?

Neither he used Brahmshira only after Ashwathama initiated it

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

..

Neither he used Brahmshira only after Ashwathama initiated it

Arjuna used Agneyastra etc. These are called Divyastras too I think. But others also used them.

If you are talking about Arjuna not using Brahmashira and Pasupatashtra (the rare divyashtras) then there are two possible reasons.

1. These two were weapons of mass destruction. I always thought this was the reason.

2. It never occurred to me that he did so because they wanted to give Kauravas a fair chance. But after you mentioned it, I thought about it.

It is possible that there may have been some convention that a win by unfair means is not a win at all. In that case even if Kauravas were wiped out the kingdom would go to Dhritarashtra after the war.

Agneyastra is simply fire-tipped (could be fire-tailed) arrow. Nothing magical about it. Also, plenty of unfairness was done by Pandava side. This was even bluntly stated by Krishna as necessary to win the war while being numerically at a disadvantage.

With re: *magical* weapons.

(WHAT FOLLOWS IS MY INTERPPRETATION OF FACTS AVAILABLE IN TEXTS. NOWHERE ARE PEOPLE'S MOTIVES SPECIFIED... THAT IS THE ONLY PART I'M ASSUMING)

See, what most people imagine Kurukshetra as is Kuru-Pandav war, but it was not that alone.

A multiplicity of motives battled for those 18 days.

1. It was a kshatriya v kshtariya war, but it was mainly a Kuru-Panchal conflict where kshatriyas were concerned. The background of it is well-described in Adi Parva

2. It was also a brahmin v brahmin war with Vasishta-Varuni on one side and Angirasa brahmanas on the other. Drona was a Bharadwaja Angirasa. Karna, as Parasu Ram shishya, was also an Angirasa student. They both turned traitor because of political/financial reasons to support Hastinapuri which had already endorsed Vasishta-Varunis for obvious reasons (Vyasa). Drupada was an Angirasa supporter. Krishna-Govinda was Ghora Angirasa's student who was trying to unify the land, so he was talking to both sides. Panchali, either by birth (speculation) or by adoption (Drupada), was an Angirasa also, married to Vasishta-Varuni king (Yudhishtitra) which is one of the reaons I'm pretty certain the marriage was Krishna's doing. *He* was the one who wanted to unify the land. So in the Yudhishtira-Panchali marriage, they would've had both Kuru-Panchal ceasefire and Vasishta Varuni-Angirasa alliance.

The Angirasa rishis were the weapons suppliers mostly - see: Khandava dahana episode and Varuna of a thousand eyes (Agni = Angirasa, as stated in Mahabharata several times). After dice hall events, almost all the elite united against Pandavas except Drupada and gang probably because their girl was the empress. By then, the aim was to keep power in elite hands so the VV-A differences blurred, and everyone with power went to Kauravas. This left the Pandavas with little in terms of material support. What weapons they would've had came from Panchal because remember, only Krishna and a few Yadavas came from even Dwaraka, and with few troops/weapons. Yudhishtira actually forbade Krishna from fighting. Yes. it was Yudhishtira, not that silly story about who asked first. We can only speculate as to the reasons behind the king's decree.

Essentially, whatever *divyastra* Arjuna would've had would be from his prior collection or from Panchal. He would not have wanted to waste them because it would've been a waste! The other side had more. He would've wanted to wait until the warriors on Kaurava side who knew how to use speciality weapons were killed. The exception was of course Jayadratha, and Krishna gets mightily angry with Arjuna for that vow for good reason.

Originally posted by: vyapti

Arjuna used Agneyastra etc. These are called Divyastras too I think. But others also used them.

If you are talking about Arjuna not using Brahmashira and Pasupatashtra (the rare divyashtras) then there are two possible reasons.

1. These two were weapons of mass destruction. I always thought this was the reason.

2. It never occurred to me that he did so because they wanted to give Kauravas a fair chance. But after you mentioned it I thought about it.

It is possible that there may have been some convention that a win by unfair means is not a win at all. In that case even if Kaurava's were wiped out the kingdom would go to Dhritarashtra after the war.

1) It was a weapon of mass destruction but only to the soldiers who were there (might be something like a granade or something) would have been affected. Like when Ashwathama sent it towards women abode only they were affected not everyone in the universe, Pashupatastra might have been slightly more dangerous but definitely only to those on battlefield not to everyone in the world. The soldiers were as it is to die, had they been killed along with major frontliners early, maybe the number of soldiers who died would have been lower. So this reason isn't something very valid

2) That too doesn't seem much of a reason because Arjun was collecting Divyastras only for this anticipated war, what exactly was he gonna do with the astras when he didn't even use it in the biggest war of his era (hell he didn't even use them against the Dasyus after MausulParva).

Plus I doubt using better weapons would have been called an unfair win.

I think the reason could have been that these special weapons were saved for usage in some extra special occasions. I mean Karna didn't use Indrastra over Arjun on day 14 when the latter was approaching them for Jaydrath vadh. They definitely had a direct combat there and apparently Karna wanted the weapon to use it against Ariun himself. He only used the weapon against Ghatochkach when it was a life n death situation for Duryodhan

If you remove divinity then probably these were some superior weapon as per those days standards and were produced in very small numbers

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Essentially, whatever *divyastra* Arjuna would've had would be from his prior collection or from Panchal. He would not have wanted to waste them because it would've been a waste! The other side had more. He would've wanted to wait until the warriors on Kaurava side who knew how to use speciality weapons were killed. The exception was of course Jayadratha, and Krishna gets mightily angry with Arjuna for that vow for good reason.

Arjun did go to Sakra and would have definitely taken some weapons for himself from his father.

He got Pashupatastra during the Vanwas too.

So his Divyastras weren't only the ones from previous collection but also the ones he collected during Vanwaas. He had few (if not plenty) of them in his collection.

Aside whom do you think from Kaurav side had a neutraliser for these superior most weapons on earth in that era?

Definitely not Bheeshm guy died by efforts of someone as ordinary as Shikhandi, Ashwathama wasn't even pro in handling Brahmshira he initiated so definitely he wouldn't be someone who could neutralise superior weapons by opponents.

Karna and Shalya aren't even good enough to be discussed in this context. Dury Dushy, Jaidarth, Shakuni and other Kauravas were no where even near to this league. No idea about others

Maybe only Drona and Kripa might be capable for this, (I doubt even on that) but is it like anywhere meaningful to not use superior weapons that would expedite the victory (and Pandavas weren't sure of win till Karna vadh we know) just fearing that those could be neutralised by two opponents?

Goes Completely against the teachings of Geeta regarding do your duty without being concerned about the result

Off topic many Indologists of today say that Parashuram wasn't an Agnirasa but was a Bhrigu.

In fact even many Zoroastrians now say that even Zoroaster could have been a Bhrigu vanshi(the Agnirasa Bhrigu division is there since earliest of Vedic books when Asuras and Devas are both Vandaniya, so could be that later few Bhrigu vanshis only restricted to Asura worship)

Have not completely understood their rationale am still reading and trying to understand it.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Arjun did go to Sakra and would have definitely taken some weapons for himself from his father.

He got Pashupatastra during the Vanwas too.

So his Divyastras weren't only the ones from previous collection but also the ones he collected during Vanwaas. He had few (if not plenty) of them in his collection.

Aside whom do you think from Kaurav side had a neutraliser for these superior most weapons on earth in that era?

Definitely not Bheeshm guy died by efforts of someone as ordinary as Shikhandi, Ashwathama wasn't even pro in handling Brahmshira he initiated so definitely he wouldn't be someone who could neutralise superior weapons by opponents.

Karna and Shalya aren't even good enough to be discussed in this context. Dury Dushy, Jaidarth, Shakuni and other Kauravas were no where even near to this league. No idea about others

Maybe only Drona and Kripa might be capable for this, (I doubt even on that) but is it like anywhere meaningful to not use superior weapons that would expedite the victory (and Pandavas weren't sure of win till Karna vadh we know) just fearing that those could be neutralised by two opponents?

Goes Completely against the teachings of Geeta regarding do your duty without being concerned about the result

But Arjuna's weapons from Shakra aren't listed, are they? Also, I have doubts how successful Arjuna was in that mission because acc to text, his 5 years seemed like mere days to the rest. If you remove magic, it means Arjuna didn't stay in Shakra's kingdom that long. The most Pandavas got from Shakra was he didn't take sides in a more present form.

Pashupata Arjuna got from Shiva. He would've had a few from before. The rest would all be necessarily from Panchal. in fact, the fact his weapons *disappeared* after Krishna's death says a lot.

With re: Kauravas. The art of war involves several layers - moral and physical being almost equally important. Bheeshma had *moral* authority. He was a great warrior in his prime, but he would've been in his 90s by war and couldn't be expected to fight a 40-ish Arjuna well. There were sevral troops guarding the old man. However, Drona still could. Asshwatthama, though I dislike him, could as well. Even Krishna had to bow to Narayana Astra. A is called Rudra's own avatar for a reason. He was not flat villain he is widely presented as. Karna, again a criminal, did know how to use the weapons because Parasu Ram taught him. Moreover, Anga had steel mines. Steel would've been a huge advantage those days because of how lightweight the weapons would be.

Arjuna would've lost the war in a day if he tried to use the speciality weapons.

@Bold. I'm sorry, but I have to massively disagree with that. Gita doesn't say run in to a war without any planning or strategy. That would be very silly advice to give. Karmanyevadhikarasthe/nishkama karmam mean your only right is to do your duty. You have no right to insist on a positive outcome which depends on a whole lot of other things.