Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
1. See, the problem with thinking of a veda or vedas as ONE work is that we start imagining an author or a group of authors writing it. No, those were the collected wisdom of ages.
VYASA compiled the vedas. He didn't write them, but he compiled the info. So it's fairly reasonable to believe most of the stuff he got together dated until his time. Why wouldn't he? For him, it was writing a textbook. He'd naturally get all the info dating up to his time.
So MBh and surrounding events can happen in Iron Age and still be included in vedas.
2. Moreover, the vedas are also in Panini sanskrit.
Which means whichever form has come to us in the modern era has been composed during or after Panini who lived after MBh era.
3. Rig Veda being a Bharat vanshi work.
2 possibilties.
(1) The Bharatas mentioned there might not even be Dushyantha Bharatas.
Priyamvadho nama sutho manoh swayambhuvasya ha !
Thasyagnigrasthatho nabhitrishbhashcha suthasthathah !!
Avatheerana puthrashatham thasyasidrahaychaparagham !
Vikyatham varshamethaghyannaamnaa bharathamuthapram !!
Manu had a son Priyamvadha who had a son called Agnigra
A had a son nabhi
N had a son Rishabha
Rishabha had a 100 sons, eldest of whom was Bharata, servant of Narayana, after whom the land is named.
This Bharata tribe is likely the one in Rig Veda.
The chief mention of Bharatas in RV is in the Mandala by Vishvamitra. But remember, Bharata of Kurus would be Vishvamitra's grandson. That clan had not yet formed to take part in the battle of 10 kings.
(2) if it were Dushyanta Bharatas, then it definitely was MBh era.
4. Regardless, Rig Veda's most prominent personality is Indra, not Bharat vanshis, regardless of role Battle of 10 Kings might have played.
Indra was not a friend to Krishna.
5. The similarities are too big to ignore between the Krishnasur of Rig Veda and the Krishna of MBh/HV/SB
1) No I don't think Vedas are one. The Vedas were compiled across centuries. I have said the same thing in my previous message too. Vedas complication took centuries if not millenniums. The difference between the language of earlier Vedic books like 2,3 and the last books like 1 and 10 is do huge that the same couldn't have had happened in a time gap of few centuries.. However the complied RigVed that we had around 1500 BCE was you could call the last edition. Post that it was only reprints ,π nothing changed henceforth (I guess that's why we don't get Yavanas n Romakas in Vedas) is what historians have a near consensus on. Those became Apaurasheya post this time
Although we attribute Ved Vyas as the complier of Vedas but each Mandala actually mentions the name of its complier (just the hymns mention the name of their composer). Aside Ved Vyas wasn't one person, anyone of his stature was given the post of Ved Vyas, hence even if we take that Vyas was the one to compile the final edition of the Vedas it's clear that this needn't be out Ved Vyas ji
2) No Vedas are not in Panini Sanskrit. The Vyakaran for which Panini had made is commonly known as Classical Sansksrit (aur Laukik Sansksrit in Hindi) and that is an Indo Aryan language being near contemporary to Pali or other Prakrit languages. Vedas on the other hand is in the ancient language of Vedic Sanskrit which is supposed to be the direct descandent to the Proto Indo European language and belongs to the Indo Iranian group of languages. Vedic Sansksrit has more resembles with the Avestan language of the Iranians than it has with the Classical Sansksrit of Panini. No contamination of Vedic literature(including Both Samhitas and Aryanyakas) with the Panini language is another proof that it has to be a much older text
3) Yes the composer is Vishwamitra. But is he the same Vishwamitra as the ancestor of Kurus? Rishis like Vishwamitra n Vashisht have had their presence across texts from Vedas to Ramayana
As per my understanding of the text(purely mine I could be wrong here) Bharat Vanshis were the patrons of the sages who composed the Vedas. Indra et all were the gods of their tribe ( and that of a few other tribes) probably that is how most of their heroics and worship of their Gods got into the storyline. As I already mentioned in my previous message, Yayati's story was just an attempt to bring all the influencial tribes to a common ancestory.
Anyhow I can agree to your point that this group from Mahabharatha could be a different family still they did belong to the Puru clan
4) Completely agreed here Indra was definitely not a friend of Krishna. Krishna had openly challenged his divinity and stopped his worship
5) For the similarities thing as I said there are differences too, the similarities are mostly there in the SB version of Krishna. The mights of Krishnasur could have been imported to the SB version of Krishna to make him more superhuman since SB makes every attempt to further seal his divinity.
P S There are many resembles in Naradas too, yet we all agree that they were different people