They should not change the truth - Page 11

Originally posted by: akhl

Kal El,
I agree with whatever you have written. But when a serial shows something which is against popular belief, then the makers of the serial must cite their sources as reference.

I agree. I think the serial maker should do a special "Behind the scenes" show where they can tell the audience about their research and the reason behind the choices they made. This is done all the time in the west for the tv shows there. 😃

Kal El,
What is it that you trying to say? I do not get the point. As akhl said, When it comes to religion there are some popular belief and we would like to stick it to it. I am open to everything but some belief that we see in this show, just hard to digest. Show me some proof of research and I will buy it.

Kal El
The topic on which you are talking is simply engrossing and difficult.We have diffrrent point of views for ramayan in consideration to others for example In Sri Lanka they praise ravan as lord .But we praise Ram as lord.We have known the story so far as the battle between good and evil.But there must be some other texts interpreting why this war happened.Of course they say it happened bcause to kill ravan.Since Ravan series i began thinking why they always hate ravan.Their must be some good things about him.The series is now showing some stupid things for example ravan wants to kill his own son why?Are they copying kansa vadh?Ravan has raged an army against raghukul king what?.Ravan was supposed to be great devotee of lord shiva which has not ben described clearly in the series.I would say that the director has ruined the series.They are not having a good episode lately.

@mainkaun: I thought I was pretty clear about my point. I was trying to say that we should not just assume that one particular version must be true and the rest aren't. Nobody is asking you to give up your beliefs or something. I was simply pointing out that beliefs have never been constant and they still aren't constant everywhere in south asia. You are comfortable with the currently popular views about Ram as a divine incarnation and Ravan as the evil guy, the demon. Other people are comfortable with different versions. Some people find it perfectly normal to think that Sita took on the form of Maa Kali in the epic. Jains and Buddhists have their versions. Go down South India and you will find many people "sticking to" their beliefs about Ravan as a better person than the popular one. You find it so hard to consider Sita as Ravan' daughter yet this has been the norm in many regions. So then, which version is really the truth? Adherents of each will defend their versions of course. Christians will fight to the end to defend Jesus as God, a concept highly offensive to Jews who hold that he was a false prophet. So who is right? Think about that sometime. We cannot arbitrarily declare one version to be true based simply on the number of the adherents. 🤔

When we look beyond the beliefs and wish to research the historicity of the legends we cannot afford to rigidly stick to one version or the other. We have to be completely unbiased if we are to figure out the actual incidents that gave birth to the myths. The legend has undergone many modifications as they were passed on from generation to generation in oral form as well as under different writers, different political scenarios, different belief systems, errors introduced over time, etc. Even the Valmiki text has had numerous changes introduced in it over time. The Buddhist version is claimed to predate the Valmiki text. Valmiki himself may have simply adapted the version of the myths that was floating around in his region into a poem. On top of this there is no concrete evidence of the reality of the myths. It is possible that the story is pure fiction. It is also possible that the real events were very different from the myths. We need to open our minds to the possibilities. 😉


@kedar200723: I believe they are adapting the story of Sita being Ravan's daughter in this serial. This, in fact, does occur in many versions. In most of them, either Ravan or Mandodari or both get rid of the child by burying her in a field or setting her afloat on a river/ocean. Mareech is often the one ordered to do this. In one version Mandodari ties a stone to the baby's neck and throws it into a river. I am not sure where they got the idea of Ravan actually ordering Mareech to kill the child as opposed to getting rid of it though.

I agree with you that the director has not managed to handle the adult Ravan properly. The transition from the positive young Ravan to the villainous adult Ravan has been rather abrupt and not well depicted. They needed to slow down and focus a bit more on the teen Ravan I think.

Anyway this serial will, I hope, open the door toward more efforts to present Ravan's side of the story. The popular version(s) of the Ramayan has/have been depicted in movies and series many times. Hopefully this will make way for more people presenting their take on Ravan's story. I look at this serial as an experiment, a trial version. There can be much better efforts but this is a good start. Also, we should appreciate the writer/director's efforts to focus on technology much more than any previous filmmaker has done. 😊

Kal El
I am open to all possibilities and I do understand that there are so many versions out there but there are some items that this show is trying to tell us are littlrely hard to digest. This is not some show that we can watch and forget, they trying to change general beliefe and there are not many people like you are open minded when it comes to religion.

It is perfectly all right to give a different perspective but the makers must cite their source.(Both I am Kal El agree on this). Citing source is important because there may be viewers of Ravan serial who are not aware of popular beliefs about Ravan. If they watch this serial, they will think that the serial is showing what people believe in general. They will be misguided. Therefore, it is very important to make it clear that they are showing different perspective and they must cite the sources so that people can verify for themselves if they want.

I have not watched all episodes of this serial. But, in a few episodes I noticed that Valmiki Ramayan is mentioned as one of the sources. When the serial is showing something completely opposite of Valmiki Ramayan, then it is not proper to cite Valmiki Ramayan as source. Otherwise, viewers may be misguided into thinking that this is what Valmiki Ramayan says.

akhl,
your last paragraph says all what I been trying to say.

I believe the Valmiki Ramayan is being used as the backbone of the story while other sources are used to flesh out the plots. Take for instance Ravan's conflict with the rishis. The notion of the Rakshasas tormenting the rishis is from the Valmiki Ramayan. However, earlier in the serial it was established that Ravan's dislike of the rishis arose from his opposition to animal-sacrifice. Sumali then used this point to paint a very negative image of the rishis in Ravan's mind from his childhood. The result being that he now hates them with passion. Now, Ravan's opposition to animal-sacrifice is mentioned in the Jain Ramayans (and maybe in other versions too but I can't be sure of this right now). It forms the basis for some of his conflicts with other kings in those versions (Although the Jain versions are, naturally, set purely within a Jain framework. There are no Hindu elements present at all.)

So it seems that the basic story of the conflict with rishis came from the Valmiki version while another source was used to flesh out the reasoning behind it.

The above is an example. I think they have used this approach throughout the serial and this why, I guess, the Valmiki Ramayan is cited as one of the sources. 🤔

All the more reason for a behind-the-scenes special episode. 😃

But it is very important to keep in mind the basic theme of a source. The basic theme of Valmiki Ramayan is that Ravan was evil and Ram was good. But when the serial is showing something against the basic theme of Valmiki Ramayan, then Valmiki Ramayan should not be cited one of the sources. Of course, some incidents are common. But theme is more important than some incidents.
I understand that there are different versions. If makers of this serial want to portray a version, which is not so common, then it is good. But the serial should be shown in such a way that people understand what versions being shown.

Hi Kal El,
I have been reading urs and others posts... i admire ur objective approach of watching this serial... It is very important as u said, to listen attentively and with respect anything about history, religion infact any subject to get to know the full and actual story.... however it is even more important to be able to differentiate between truth and false, right and wrong...

I have repeatedly said in my posts that it is good to show the good qualities of Ravaan... he is a mahatma who needs to be appreciated for some of his peculiar way of life... however, he had many flaws... and that is why my Tulsi in Ramcharitmanas calls him not a Yogi but a KuYogi! We need to learn from the goods of Ravaan but not bu showing the inexistant bads of Ram!

Bringing out a new version of the story is not bad.... Tulsi is Ramcharitmanas says that some people have for the sake of fame, money etc created false routes and I believe this serial is one of them... If you tell me that Ravan's fight against the Rishis for animal sacrifices was right that means u support the war against Terrorism and Afghanistan (comparing it to contemporary issues)... Ravan was the great great grandson of Bramha! Tulsi says in the Vinay Patrika that Bramha used to go to Ravan everyday to learn the Vedas! How can such a learned man fight against some Rishis! Yes, there were false Yogis at that time too... but Ravan was one of them! He became a hypocrit if u tell me that Ravan was fighting against the injustice of some Rishis!

The Ramayan teaches us to become humans... to have a nature like Ram! After watching this serial and people who support Ravan, tell me, how many of you will keep ur childs name Ravan even! I bet none... Ram is the name of many, Ravan is nones. You say that Ravan is worshiped as a god in Sri Lanka... this is true... even in the south (of india) he is worshiped as a great mind/thinker... however noone names their children after him... the simple reason behind it is that he wasnt perfect! Ram was!!!! This world doesnt need another Ravan, it needs a Ram...

Tell me one place where Ram did wrong! Some people who havent read the Ramayan can tink of two places... 1. Bali's death and 2. Sita's agnipariksha or Sita's abandoning...

Yes, Ram did shoot Bali from behind the tree as Bali had made his younger brothers wife his own by force! To protect the freedom of women Ram told us that I am willing to loose my name if I am to protect a woman... Secondl;y, when Ram shot the arrow to Bali and Bali accepted his mistakes, Ram put his hands on Vali's head and asked him if he wanted his life back!!! Then Vali said no, it is possible to be born again by ur grace, but not die again by ur hands! I want death now... so Vali wanted to die then even though Ram could have given him life

In Sita's case, it was just a way to end Ram Charitra... Let me ask u... Ram and Sita are gods, they wont die... so how was there Leela to end? It was just one way to end the Leela... everyone knows about Sita's agniparkisha... but nonw knows about Ram's Jal-samadhi later on! It was just a way to give the new world (free from tyrants like ravan) to human kind..

I read Kal El mention that the Budhist version predates that of Valmiki... as for the historians, this is not true... Historians believe that Krishna avtara (and the Mahabharat) dates to approx. 5000 years ago! Ram avatar was much before that and Valmiki himself is a character in Ram avatar meaning that Valmiki wrote the Ramayan before Krishna Avatara... Budh avatar was after Krishna, so the Budhist version was afetr Krishna avatar... how can then the Budhist version predate the Valmiki version? Correct me if I am wrong though.. I am just curious as You didnt provide any proof...

The producers of this serial are just trying to attract a few viewers... We should enjoy the creativity and try to learn from the good points of Ravan... but please, rather than trying to find out what the truth behind the Ramayan is... use that energy on becoming like Ram.. or even a good human being as shown in the popular Ramayan... that would be of more good to u, to me and to the whole world...