Remarriage- Questions to the Kakis of this world

First Previous

Page

Frequent Posters

Kittya Cullen

@Kittya_Cullen

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#31

Originally posted by: sheema_rajoo
Kadeen you deserve more than a standing ovation for this write up not only for your boldness and courage for stating out these points but also for your extensive research that even I, who was born as a Hindu, didn't know of. You've really enlightened me with this write up and yes, it is not our traditions which are flawed but it's how society perceives these traditions that is miserably flawed. Powerful people in the society bent and carved traditions to their own whims and fancies and it was adopted by everyone else. I love the way you said we women continue to encourage these perceptions in our daughters and sons. We degrade other women in these positions instead of helping. We perpetuate and enable this sort of inequality by setting different moral standards for men and women.
I cannot agree more Kadeen. It is an absolute shame that a woman is and can be another woman's worst enemy. I really don't understand how a woman can actually support such degradation and even pass it down to their own children by saying it's ok to do so as it's a norm. People create these societal norms, not tradition or religion.
Kudos for such a fantastic write up Kadeen. I'm so thankful that you did such a write up which is not only enlightening but a platform for people to rethink and reconsider their stance on this social stigma of inequality.

Thank you Sheema😃. I wouldn't quite say it was extensive, but had I had the time and had it not been night I would not have been surprised if I had found my way to the library😆. It's just that there are so many things that I see and can't which make me wonder where exactly the perversions come from. Even with the marriage vows of themselves, pati aur patni are required to say different things, but atleast the overall theme of love and support is there, so the society has no excuse to allow the inequality. Perception is the biggest destroyer of many things, whether it be a relationship or a person's position in society. When we understand this and question for ourselves, and compare and contrast, we are atleast giving ourselves the chance to have a balanced perception. When we simply dictate and follow without an after thought, then we become mere puppets in the hands of traditions, rules, norms, mores, and folklore that we have created. Imagine that. Being ruled by the very thing we created and ultimately harmed by it.

P.S. I agree. It was the powerful people in the society who went about creating these things, and usually it was done to keep everyone in their "place" and under their control. A woman who is occupied with her household cannot question and upset the balance of male dominance, right? Make our women feel insecure and inferior, and then they'll become pliable objects for pleasure and use as we see fit. We can keep the power and they can touch our feet...And what could be better than turning our own women against each other? Divide and conquer. If they are always squabbling between themselves, and humiliating each other, they won't even spare a thought to how badly we are treating them. The good news, is somethings have changed, and are moving in the right direction.

Edited by Kittya_Cullen - 13 years ago

Quote

Kittya Cullen

@Kittya_Cullen

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: ssroomani

Not just a rebel, Kadeen...a rebel survivor! 😉 The emphasis is on the second word, that is why I said times are changing! 😃 It is not enough to rebel but one should survive to propagate the new ideas! 😊

I did wonder at the survivor part, but I didn't want to let my curiousity get the better of me. It's good to hear that you're a rebel survivor because it shows that no one has to stay in whatever situation and take it. There is an option, and it is not an option that will be the end of the world for your life, rather it will be an option that allows you to look back and realise how far you've managed to break away from the snares. It shows that breaking out of those snares isn't such a bad thing as you've once been taught.👍🏼

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

Kittya Cullen

@Kittya_Cullen

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: ashGC_arja
It was just perfect👏👏👏... Awesome and i simply loved the questions raised by you👍🏼.
That Taiji represents so many such people who from the old school of thoughts deny a widow or divorced woman's normal living...
I hope there is a day when all these so called traditions and customs would nowhere be there and every woman would have her RIGHTFUL RIGHT.

Yes, she does represent a part of our society that chooses not change their old school of thoughts. They are caught up in holding on to these things even if they do more harm than good. I hope that with the growth and understanding of the new generations, we will be able to give every woman her haq. Her full haq. Thank you for coming and adding to this thread!

Quote

Piie Dee

@Piie

Navigator

Posted: 13 years ago

#34

@Kadeen: That was one wonderful research and for that you deserve a standing ovation from me 👏 Good going gal!

My total appreciation and agreement to all that you've penned. Couldn't agree more on the treatment that both a widow or divorced woman gets, especially in India. One recent incident in my life disgusted me beyond believable.

Recently I had a chance to participate in one of my closest cousin's baby shower in India. Since I was also in India on a work related matter, I thought of visiting her anyway. One of my colleague, an European guy wanted to tag along with me, simply because he was very much interested in learning the colourful culture. I notified my cousin on the additional headcount and she gladly agreed.

The first impression I got as soon as I stepped into her house was some sneer remarks about my dressing like a woman with a husband, am a divorcee by the way (my whole clan seems to know it...thanks to my dadima and chachi!). Well, I just couldn't be bothered with those remarks since am there to visit my cousin...so what the H***!

As the function progresses, the sneering became more intense among the oldies. I just turn deaf ears to all those remarks and wished my cousin. When I was about to leave, an old lady (one of my extended relation) came up to me and asked whether don't I have any shame, dressing up like a married woman and hanging around with another male despite being a divorcee...all the while giving a deathly glare at my colleague!

I was speechless and numb for a few second trying to absorb what she was saying. I swear, that b**** was spared simply because my spoken Punjabi was hopeless, otherwise she would've been a dead meat. Yet, with my somewhat broken Punjabi I told her that she'll be getting a wedding invitation from me very soon and held my confused colleague's hand. Well, her eyes almost popped out from its socket.

So, I guess people like Kaki still very much exist in this community. What baffled me is, the community / country that hail woman in a form of Goddesses, fails to give the same respect to a living and breathing woman. *Sigh*

**Sorry if my post has hurt anyone, am just sharing my real life experience**

Edited by SarahRam - 13 years ago

Quote

Sheema Rajoo

@sheema_rajoo

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: Kittya_Cullen

Thank you Sheema😃. I wouldn't quite say it was extensive, but had I had the time and had it not been night I would not have been surprised if I had found my way to the library😆. It's just that there are so many things that I see and can't which make me wonder where exactly the perversions come from. Even with the marriage vows of themselves, pati aur patni are required to say different things, but atleast the overall theme of love and support is there, so the society has no excuse to allow the inequality. Perception is the biggest destroyer of many things, whether it be a relationship or a person's position in society. When we understand this and question for ourselves, and compare and contrast, we are atleast giving ourselves the chance to have a balanced perception. When we simply dictate and follow without an after thought, then we become mere puppets in the hands of traditions, rules, norms, mores, and folklore that we have created. Imagine that. Being ruled by the very thing we created and ultimately harmed by it.

P.S. I agree. It was the powerful people in the society who went about creating these things, and usually it was done to keep everyone in their "place" and under their control. A woman who is occupied with her household cannot question and upset the balance of male dominance, right? Make our women feel insecure and inferior, and then they'll become pliable objects for pleasure and use as we see fit. We can keep the power and they can touch our feet...And what could be better than turning our own women against each other? Divide and conquer. If they are always squabbling between themselves, and humiliating each other, they won't even spare a thought to how badly we are treating them. The good news, is somethings have changed, and are moving in the right direction.

And honestly the vows itself are really biased if I might say so.. The wife's vows are so inclined towards the responsibilities she has on her husband and to satisfy all his needs and requirements but the same sort of requirements don't apply to the husband. I really didn't like the part where the wife has to vow to be chaste while the husband is not required to do so. This itself is proving that men has a upper hand over women as they are not required to remain faithful. Plus the grooms vows are really vague and just kinda acknowledges the wife but for the bride, it's a detailed explanation on what she needs to be/do for her husband. Plus I really find the I will strive to please you in every way I can for the bride quite awkward as is it only the duty of the women to ensure the relationship is pleasurable and if it's not she's to be blamed?? Is this why people presume that if a man sleeps/finds another woman, it's his wife's fault as she couldn't satisfy him (this was exactly what taiji thought and said to justify Prashant's actions of cheating on Aarti). Gosh society is messed up so badly. If you ask me I don't even understand why the vows are different for men and women.. Shouldn't both vow the same thing? Plus why are all this signs and symbols of marriage only applicable for women? why don't men need to wear or put on the same things as women does to show that they're married? If one tries to justify saying that, women need to show that she's married to ward off any evil intentions of another men, shouldn't the same go for men so that other women don't try to woo him? OH GOSH.. questions after questions. I just don't understand this double standards. It's just so painful and blood-boiling to watch, let alone endure.

P.S. I didn't mean to offend anyone in this comment. Just sharing my opinion and distress on inequalities. 😊

Quote

Kittya Cullen

@Kittya_Cullen

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#36

Sheema, you just said everything that has been on my mind!!!... but since I'm not Hindu, I didn't want to step on anyone's toes. The one thing I love about the Christian marriage vows, as vague as they may be, is that they are the same for both husband and wife. Will get back to you in a few minutes.😆

Quote

aimf

@aimf

Voyager

Posted: 13 years ago

#37

Dear Kadeen

I commend you for this extremely insightful and well-researched post. You have portrayed this issue with great sensitivity and balance. Bertrand Russel once put it, "The problem lies not with the faith, but with the faithful."

The Vedas, an extensive storehouse of knowledge delineating the way of life conducive to attaining liberation, have been subject to various interpretation by men. The Vedic tradition, like many others, also became more and more patriarchal with the interpretations substituting the original. We see this process in many things including the systematic erosion of women's authority in areas such as being initiated for Vedic study, or performing fire rituals independently.

Fortunately, in this area, as in others, I see a gradual change, a subtle movement of re-inhabiting power on part of Hindu women, both in the religious and secular realms. As you mentioned, change is slow, and it takes time to overcome the deep-rooted internalized oppression.

Quote

Sheema Rajoo

@sheema_rajoo

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: Kittya_Cullen
Sheema, you just said everything that has been on my mind!!!... but since I'm not Hindu, I didn't want to step on anyone's toes. The one thing I love about the Christian marriage vows, as vague as they may be, is that they are the same for both husband and wife. Will get back to you in a few minutes.😆

I totally get you Kadeen. Though I'm born hindu, I don't practice it. Actually I don't practice any religion as I find religion too complicated and I cant fathom it coz it's beyond the logical mind (I'm the type of person who believes things which is visible to my 5 senses) but if I were to marry and if there needs to be a ceremony then I'll ensure we (both me and the guy) make our own vows together so that we can be true to it together and most importantly are aware of the vows we made together. Most people aren't aware of the vows when they make the pheres. I've asked many of my hindu aunts, family friends etc on what each of the circle symbolises and most can't even give me an answer. So that tells you that people are unaware of it and just go through it as it's tradition and a norm. This kind of ignorance is honestly very shocking as you jump into something without even knowing what you've promised to uphold.

Quote

Shobha

@ssroomani

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 13 years ago

#39

Kadeen, you must look up the Arya Samaj marriage rites. You would find it interesting. There is no mangalsutra or any other kind of ornament put on the bride to signify her married status and it is a vedic wedding ceremony. Only sindoor is used.

My daughter was married this way and it is a beautiful ceremony with the priest actually explaining each and every rasm of the ceremony.

FYI! 😊

Quote

Kittya Cullen

@Kittya_Cullen

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 13 years ago

#40

Sarah, I think you've told the story behind your divorce once, and to find that your dadima and chachi told the rest of your relatives is first of all such a reminder of how things are shared in joint families. The funny thing is, everyone can share in the gossip, jokes, teasings, etc, but not many share in the pain that's attached when your life changes in a way you never planned on. If I'm remembering correctly, then first of all I respect you immensely for handling your life after that divorce so well.

It's unfortunate that those women, although have gained many years, they have not gained as much wisdom as they could have in their lifetime. I am not saying that do not have wisdom, but simply that they have not expanded the wisdom they do have. For how can a person, a fellow woman at that, not see that you and other divorced women have the right to move on with their lives? What is so wrong in you going with a male acquaintance to a family function? Your life, and the lives of other divorced women certainly do not end with the marriage. Perhaps it's a good thing you weren't all that well-versed in Punjabi, for you would have been compelled to waste precious energy and breath in that moment, that has been better spent elsewhere. The good news is, we're the new generation, and have seen that change is good in some things, especially when done carefully, with proper consideration and with the right timing.

Funny that you should bring up that little blurb in your last paragraph. I have always wondered about that. How a Hindu man can spend so much time worshipping goddesses for wealth, health, strength, protection, fertility, etc, but not give that same respect to his daughters, wife, mother and sisters. If they can't see something in that, I really don't know when they ever will.

Quote

1 2 3 4

Remarriage- Questions to the Kakis of this world - Page 4

Related Topics

Explore Topics