17th Jan - JA-JO 'Shehenshah, your silence torments me' - Page 6

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Hena, that only means that you let yourself be too much influenced by what I write, though I must point out, in fairness to myself, that I have criticised Jalal a lot also for being weak and indecisive. I do not like lallus. And I praised Jodha a lot for the Thursday episode, didn't I? But If you want me to become a Jodhaphile and gush all over her no matter what she does, sorry, I cannot.

You should enjoy the episode according to your tastes, and then, since I never write the same evening anyway, when I do write at all, which is far from regularly these last few weeks, read my post and see if you agree with my take on it. Why on earth should my satirical takes spoil your appreciation of that episode? If it does, it only means that you are not sure of your own opinions. That should never be the case. I would not mind at all if you differed strongly from me, in fact quite the reverse!

The last option of course is to stop reading my posts, and stay happy with whatever the CVs show you! Not a bad idea, come to think of it.😉 I always want my young friends here to be happy!

Shyamala Aunty

yes Aunty ,u do influence me a lot n just not me many others here also😳
m akdhian i also criticize them when required😳. If i will take it all whatever cvs throws at us then they will take us for granted its just that m not experienced,cynical like u 😊
Finally mai apka post chor k kavi nai jaungi apki har daant khaane k liye tayyar hoon 🤗🤗. I wait for ur post so how can i stop reading it ??😃😃

Originally posted by: sashashyam

Lashy my dear, as always, I enjoyed your post, and your beautiful interpretations of all the major scenes.

However, you are far more emotional than I am and that colours your responses to what you see. It also makes them more positive and heartwarming than the satire that comes most readily to me, and is an acquired taste. In fact, for my Great Mahaanta Stakes post, there were those who missed the satire altogether, and took the Mirza section at face value. I was stumped.

Here too, my take on the Jalal-Jodha scene is somewhat different from yours, and perhaps from that of most others here bar a few. But not because I am being satirical.

It was a powerful scene, leading up from the very moving one in Mirza Hakim's bedroom, so that the two formed a seamless whole. But the power in it was almost entirely because of Rajat as Jalal. As he tells her about what Mirza's khamoshi was hiding, his eyes, - she cannot meet them out of sheer shame, and lowers her own - are level and still on the surface, but the pain in his husky voice is reflected in their depths.

Later, as he looks at her just before he turns away , they were full of such deep, tired sadness that my heart turned over in empathy. And as he regards the sleeping Hakim earlier, there is such sorrow, such empathy in his eyes, that one can almost physically grasp his despairing helplessness at not having been able to spare his brother this anguish. .

No wonder he won that award.

Jodha, on the other hand is portrayed as shallow and self-centred, and I do NOT means this as criticism. It is just a factual statement. All that concerns her is her own guilty misery, which is what makes her hang about outside Hakim's rooms, and what makes her run after Jalal. '

One could see clearly that there was nothing more to Jodha at that moment than that. She has nothing to say beyond Hamari behen ne devarji ka dil dukhaya. Not a word to show that u. All she wants is that he should help her get over her guilt by chastising her and punishing her.she is thinking beyond herself, that she is thinking about him and what he must be going thr

She cannot grasp the full extent of the damage Shivani has done, for she has no imagination, and no ability to think from the other person's point of view. Again, this is NOT her fault. I once wrote that Jodha is like a clear, babbling brook, clear and transparent to its depths, but shallow and with no understanding of what the storms in the deep ocean are really like.

It was the same yesterday. Jodha has no real idea of what Jalal is going thru on account of his affection for Hakim, apart from the personal and imperial humiliation. She never can. She could not understand what he felt after The Shove, and even now her comprehension of his feelings is very limited.

In that sense, Paridhi did very well, and while she cannot manage subtle nuances as Rajat can, there were here no nuances to be managed, so she looked good. She did not have to do more than cry - she looks lovely in tears as well, a rare talent - and look desperate.

Loveanime wrote once that Jalal is so far ahead in character development that he walks alone. It is the same with Rajat. He brings such incredible subtlety and finesse to his scenes that he leaves the rest not just behind, but out of sight. Yesterday, in that Jalal-Jodha scene, this was made clearer than ever before.

I wonder how it would be if he got a heroine who matches him nuance for nuance, or at least projects the kind of healing warmth that he could feel a mile away. That would be something. Paridhi could do it, I think, but the script does not allow her to do so, at least not yet.

You should see the Tara of Ek Boond Ishq. When she looks at her Mrityunjay from 20 feet away, you feel that she is cuddling all 6' 2" of him in her arms and trying to shield him from every ill wind. Thus would Savitri have been with her Satyavan. It warms my heart to look at them together. I wonder if Jalal and Jodha are ever going to get to that level, for all this talk of amar prem. Not with the renewed Benazir track, that is for sure!

To revert, I think they are going to drag this Jalal fighting his own feelings riff for the whole of the next week. He sees them more than ever as a crippling weakness, and has no desire to go down on his knees (Mirza made a capital mistake with that sentence!). I do not blame him, he does not want to be accused of SKLL (stree ke liye lalasa) and shoved hard again, so good for him.

And I was pleased to see Jodha running after him for once, even if it was only for a self-indulgent reason, to assuage her own acute sense of guilt.

Which is where the khaas tohfa, who presented a most unappetising spectacle last night, will come back again, with or without the poison. She must have enough stocked in her body to last out a few weeks without replenishment!😉

I do not think Mirza will get an answer from Jalal to his question in the precap, but will probably make it out by himself.But then, how can he play at Cupid if he is away at war? Maybe this war too will be over in 30 seconds, as when Munim Khan defeated and captured Sharifuddin and he will be back in Agra.

I have always felt that as in the movies, Jalal should have had a good friend to give him sound advice, especially after Abdul vanished from the scene. Mirza is now obviously cast for that role. He is far too sentimental, and his idea of all round forgiveness and an abundance of the milk of human kindness in naive and would be totally impractical for an emperor. But at the moment, he seems to be more a plot device than a person.

I agree with your earlier comments on the forgiveness issue . It is ridiculous. Then why not let Bakshi Banu off the hook and Sharifuddin as well? I think they will have to dodge this one by making the war a blink-and-you-will- have-missed it affair, so that they can get Mirza back to Agra before Shivani and her boyfriend are caught. That way, he can again demand the right to pronounce sentence on them, and set them free. Then Jalal will not have to do the marshmallow act himself and will be spared looking even more than ever like a lallu.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: lashy

Aunty & Bobby (I hope I am not mistaken when I say both of you didn't have an impact with the scene in which Jalal took Jodha's hand in his😳) I was unable to go away without defending/explaining those bits alone 😆

Yes, Lashy. It was another beautiful scene. But I did not understand the significance of hand holding here. I felt hand holding looked out of place in that scene. I hope creative guys are not just adding hand holding/touching/hugging scenes for the sake of consoling people who wants Akdha scene. If Jodha tried to hold his hand in this scene, I probably believed it more than Jalal holding her hand. Somehow did not make sense to me. Can you explain little more on whey you thought it was done out of authority? I wanted to know what Jodha wanted to tell when she was stopped by Jalal. At least they could have showed her thinking about that later. I definitely did not want her to tell Jalal to forgive Shivani. I wanted the confirmation that she was not trying to do that

As for why I found it in context and convincing...was because of the timing and the statement he said when doing it

He said, 'If I had to punish you for this, I wouldn't need your permission to do so for it'

Taking her hand in his - i.e. for ANYTHING I do with you, I don't need prior permission to do so...but I don't do it only because I believe in doing the right thing..

A direct parallel can again be drawn to the scene back on THAT night - from where a lot of these problems have arisen anyway. Her not having given him permission and him having not compelled her against her wishes (though he's obviously taken the humiliation to heart)

Also, one could see him exerting a sense of 'authority' over her and a sense of 'possessiveness' over her as he did that - possibly something he needed to do while saying those statements...since he's been repeatedly made to feel by MA and Ruqs that he has neither authority over Jodha nor has she given him the right to be possessive of her!

Third and the last reason being that both of them were sharing pain as a result of betrayal and humiliation. Thanks to what both their sisters had done to them, they have that common factor in their lives. Its not an uncommon reaction - in the heat of the moment - to end up leaning upon another shoulder, placing your arm on someone, or taking that person's hand in yours when you're emotionally disturbed. He'd just come out of the chamber seeing how his little brother was distraught- and the effect it had on him was evidently shown.

There was a mixture of everything in that hand hold - anger, sharing joy, showing authority, displaying possessiveness, sharing pain!

Rarely do I justify a scene so much - but, this time - I felt it deserved it!

I love romance - but, not when it comes at the cost of logic...and this time, I felt that the scene had both!

🤗 Hope I didn't bore you lovely ladies to death! 😆

Yes, Bobby that was definitely in bad taste, and I am very pleased that you thought so as well, when most of your age group in the forum were in ecstasies over it. I thought it was like a vulgar scene from a Govinda-Karisma movie from the 1990s, which were all, I understand, full of such stuff.

But trying to seduce her then? No my dear, one does not try to seduce a woman in broad daylight in a room where there seem to be no doors at all! I think he was trying to make her uncomfortable with his physical nearness and seeing how she would react.

It was not at all the sort of thing an emperor would do. It was pandering to what in the old days would be called the frontbenchers in a movie theater!

I will post both your comment and my response there on Lashy's thread. I don;t know where in the world you are, but if it is in India, sleep tight, and I am off to do the same, like Ciinderella for it is 14 minutes to midnight in Pune!

Shyamala Aunty


-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : Bobby13
Sent : 19 January 2014 at 6:47am

Aunty, I could not post it again. I believe there is a restriction on posting more than 10 posts in a day for a newby and I exceeded the quota. Can you please help me to post this? Otherwise I will post tomorrow.

I have to agree with you on this (even though I don't agree on your point of Jalal never tried to seduce her in Amer. Forgot those ooh aah s 😉 and bare torso massage?). I will let creatives take the blame for this again 😉. Some of these were not shown in good taste.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

No, Bobby, I have not made myself clear, it seems. I was not questioning her right to hold him at arm's length so much as pointing out that in real life, it would not have worked. If he is prepared to abide by the non-existent zubaan that he is now held to have given, that is his choice and her good fortune.

What I object to very strongly is her constantly accusing Jalal of trying all sorts of tricks to seduce her, or anuchit laabh uthana. She seems to think he has nothing else on his mind but physical intimacy with her.

This when she knows full well that he is a man of his word and has never tried anything the least bit seductive with for days on end when they shared a bedroom in Amer. It is this that is acutely distasteful to me. And her discussing their sleeping arrangements with a strange daasi on the road to Ajmer was the pits.

Finally, don't fret about the lost posts. I will take it that you had counter arguments to each of my points. There!

Shyamala Aunty

My dear Hena, why on earth would I scold a kid like you? Never! Only don't let my posts spoil your enjoyment of something you really like. If I think it is silly and OTT, that does not matter at all. Satire should be read for amusement, and then again, not all my posts are satirical!

Don't fret; as soon as I can, I will write a nice, sweet. sentimental post just for you! If only Jodha would be a bit more sensible, I could do it very soon😉

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: sunshine_sun

yes Aunty ,u do influence me a lot n just not me many others here also😳
m akdhian i also criticize them when required😳. If i will take it all whatever cvs throws at us then they will take us for granted its just that m not experienced,cynical like u 😊
Finally mai apka post chor k kavi nai jaungi apki har daant khaane k liye tayyar hoon 🤗🤗. I wait for ur post so how can i stop reading it ??😃😃

Originally posted by: sashashyam

My dear Hena, that only means that you let yourself be too much influenced by what I write, though I must point out, in fairness to myself, that I have criticised Jalal a lot also for being weak and indecisive. I do not like lallus. And I praised Jodha a lot for the Thursday episode, didn't I? But If you want me to become a Jodhaphile and gush all over her no matter what she does, sorry, I cannot.

You should enjoy the episode according to your tastes, and then, since I never write the same evening anyway, when I do write at all, which is far from regularly these last few weeks, read my post and see if you agree with my take on it. Why on earth should my satirical takes spoil your appreciation of that episode? If it does, it only means that you are not sure of your own opinions. That should never be the case. I would not mind at all if you differed strongly from me, in fact quite the reverse!

The last option of course is to stop reading my posts, and stay happy with whatever the CVs show you! Not a bad idea, come to think of it.😉 I always want my young friends here to be happy!

Shyamala Aunty

She does not, Joja,and as I said, that is not her fault. She is not a perceptive person. she cannot see anything from the point of view of another.That is how she is made, and she cannot help that.

She has not had a childhood spent running for her life, never sure if the next hour would not be her last. She has never known terrible alienation, never had close relatives plotting to kill her, never been in a position where she could trust no one but 3 people. She does not head an empire or face situations where the choice is not between the good and the bad, but between the bad and the worse.

She has had a pampered, safe life all along, so she can preach constantly to all and sundry, and is always sure that she, and only she, is right every time. Contrast her with Sukanya, who has ten times the good sense Jodha has, and, instinctively, ten times the sensitivity as well.

This lack of perception was shown on the first occasion, during the dature ka ark track, when Jodha learns of Jalal's terrible childhood, when his uncle was using him as a target for cannonfire. Does that make any impression on her, or alter her perception of where he is coming from, or make her understand him a little better? No. She does not even mention it to Moti afterwards, though it is a hugely important revelation about Jalal.

When, in Amer, Jalal tells her about why the Ratanpur fort was so important for him, because of its links with his father, the Emperor Humayun. He is visibly moved, and is opening up to her to an unprecedented extent. Again there is not the slightest reaction or understanding from Jodha, and she says nothing, either then or afterwards.

She seems to be incapable of any deep feeling, that is all. Maybe this will change with time, and I do hope so. Otherwise, they will just have to put up a placard ISI WAQT SHURU HUYI JODHA-AKBAR KI AMAR PREM KAHANI, for otherwise we would never realise that it had, at last, ARRIVED!!

And there are no voiceovers for her because this is the way the CVs see her.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: Joja

Even i am confused with Jodha's reactions. i really cannot makeout of she is just guilty or is she really understands Jalal's pain. she needs some self talk atleast at times like this

My dear Bobby,

One point that got left out in that marathon comment of mine yesterday.😉

Jalal does not weep only in front of Jodha.He does it with both Mahaam and Ruqaiya, and even if you leave that out saying that they have always been extremely close to him, he sheds tears in full public view when he hugs that little Hindu boy in the Diwan-e-Aam scene. And again, though a bit surreptitiously, after the address of the Awaam after the Bakshi Banu affair. He does not see it as in any way unmanly to bare his emotions to the public.

In that scene in Jodha's rooms after the Bakshi Banu affair, he sheds tears because of his state of mind, not because he feels that Jodha is empathising with him. Which she is not, unless you call that rattofied speech about prem empathising!

Coming back to Jodha, I do not hold it against her that she cannot feel his pain. It is not her fault. She is not a perceptive person. she cannot see anything from the point of view of another.That is how she is made, and she cannot help it.

She has not had a childhood spent running for her life, never sure if the next hour would not be her last. She has never known terrible alienation, never had close relatives plotting to kill her, never been in a position where she could trust no one but 3 people. She does not head an empire or face situations where the choice is not between the good and the bad, but between the bad and the worse.

She has had a pampered, safe life all along, so she can preach constantly to all and sundry, and is always sure that she, and only she, is right every time. Contrast her with Sukanya, who has ten times the good sense Jodha has, and, instinctively, ten times the sensitivity as well.

This lack of perception was shown on the first occasion, during the dature ka ark track, when Jodha learns of Jalal's terrible childhood, when his uncle was using him as a target for cannonfire. Does that make any impression on her, or alter her perception of where he is coming from, or make her understand him a little better? No. She does not even mention it to Moti afterwards, though it is a hugely important revelation about Jalal.

When, in Amer, Jalal tells her about why the Ratanpur fort was so important for him, because of its links with his father, the Emperor Humayun. He is visibly moved, and is opening up to her to an unprecedented extent. Again there is not the slightest reaction or understanding from Jodha, and she says nothing, either then or afterwards.

She seems to be incapable of any deep feeling, that is all. Maybe this will change with time, and I do hope so. Otherwise, they will just have to put up a placard ISI WAQT SHURU HUYI JODHA-AKBAR KI AMAR PREM KAHANI, for otherwise we would never realise that it had, at last, ARRIVED!!

And there are no voiceovers for her because this is the way the CVs see her.

Shyamala Aunty


She definitely has the capacity to understand Jalal's pain. We have seen that in Bhakshi Banu's episode. When all the others were away from Jalal either thinking that Jalal had done the justice or Jalal does not like anybody's interference, she was the only one who had the courage to go near him. We also saw that Jalal was able to shed tears in front of only her and that tells a lot. Normally you do not show your vulnerability in front of a person who can not empathize with you (Especially somebody as egoistic as Jalal who hates to show his vulnerability to anybody).

Originally posted by: sashashyam

She does not, Joja,and as I said, that is not her fault. She is not a perceptive person. she cannot see anything from the point of view of another.That is how she is made, and she cannot help that.

She has not had a childhood spent running for her life, never sure if the next hour would not be her last. She has never known terrible alienation, never had close relatives plotting to kill her, never been in a position where she could trust no one but 3 people. She does not head an empire or face situations where the choice is not between the good and the bad, but between the bad and the worse.

She has had a pampered, safe life all along, so she can preach constantly to all and sundry, and is always sure that she, and only she, is right every time. Contrast her with Sukanya, who has ten times the good sense Jodha has, and, instinctively, ten times the sensitivity as well.

This lack of perception was shown on the first occasion, during the dature ka ark track, when Jodha learns of Jalal's terrible childhood, when his uncle was using him as a target for cannonfire. Does that make any impression on her, or alter her perception of where he is coming from, or make her understand him a little better? No. She does not even mention it to Moti afterwards, though it is a hugely important revelation about Jalal.

When, in Amer, Jalal tells her about why the Ratanpur fort was so important for him, because of its links with his father, the Emperor Humayun. He is visibly moved, and is opening up to her to an unprecedented extent. Again there is not the slightest reaction or understanding from Jodha, and she says nothing, either then or afterwards.

She seems to be incapable of any deep feeling, that is all. Maybe this will change with time, and I do hope so. Otherwise, they will just have to put up a placard ISI WAQT SHURU HUYI JODHA-AKBAR KI AMAR PREM KAHANI, for otherwise we would never realise that it had, at last, ARRIVED!!

And there are no voiceovers for her because this is the way the CVs see her.

Shyamala B.Cowsik

My dear Joja,

The whole first part about Jodha is satirical, as is the last para. They are not to be taken literally. Of course she should not be the way she is!

I loved the precap tonight for Jalal's razor sharp jibe at Jodha's dhakoslabaazi in keeping the Mahashivaratri vrat when she does not even consider him her husband. Splendid. Even otherwise Jalal seems to be recovering his old form, which is a great relief.

Shyamala aunty

Originally posted by: Joja

But isnt it not right for her being so self cenetred or to just think about herself.

Love is to give and take not just receive.

she wants all the attention, respect and trust but she doesnt show any of these.

One sided love is not epic love story.

Originally posted by: sashashyam

She does not, Joja,and as I said, that is not her fault. She is not a perceptive person. she cannot see anything from the point of view of another.That is how she is made, and she cannot help that.

She has not had a childhood spent running for her life, never sure if the next hour would not be her last. She has never known terrible alienation, never had close relatives plotting to kill her, never been in a position where she could trust no one but 3 people. She does not head an empire or face situations where the choice is not between the good and the bad, but between the bad and the worse.

She has had a pampered, safe life all along, so she can preach constantly to all and sundry, and is always sure that she, and only she, is right every time. Contrast her with Sukanya, who has ten times the good sense Jodha has, and, instinctively, ten times the sensitivity as well.

This lack of perception was shown on the first occasion, during the dature ka ark track, when Jodha learns of Jalal's terrible childhood, when his uncle was using him as a target for cannonfire. Does that make any impression on her, or alter her perception of where he is coming from, or make her understand him a little better? No. She does not even mention it to Moti afterwards, though it is a hugely important revelation about Jalal.

When, in Amer, Jalal tells her about why the Ratanpur fort was so important for him, because of its links with his father, the Emperor Humayun. He is visibly moved, and is opening up to her to an unprecedented extent. Again there is not the slightest reaction or understanding from Jodha, and she says nothing, either then or afterwards.

She seems to be incapable of any deep feeling, that is all. Maybe this will change with time, and I do hope so. Otherwise, they will just have to put up a placard ISI WAQT SHURU HUYI JODHA-AKBAR KI AMAR PREM KAHANI, for otherwise we would never realise that it had, at last, ARRIVED!!

And there are no voiceovers for her because this is the way the CVs see her.

Shyamala B.Cowsik