Mughals - JA(REAL) is not Fiction-Pt4 - Author/TM's note on Pg1 and 91 - Page 22

Originally posted by: history_geek

Ok..friends...In response to your PM's...

Regarding, Tejawant(Shivani's fiance) , who is speculated to turn into Tuhir Das, who is considered to be chief architect of Fatehpur Sikri.!!..


😕..
😲..

i am NOT sure 100% that Tejawant = future Tuhir das.

But, one thing i READ was that PROBABLY Tuhir Das was from Bengal...😕..or was staying there...
Then,question is, How come he land in Amer..?..😕...

BUT,
Also, the palaces of Jodha in Agra Fort and Fatehpur Sikri had influence of Rajputana architecture, Bengal temple architecture, Gujarat Jain temple architecture...

Confused...as again this points to some association with Bengal..!!..

One thing is that, the architects who constructed Jodha's palace in Agra Fort(around 1563-64) were perhaps the SAME who constructed her palace in Fatehpur Sikri.(around 1571)...

So, if this works then, FIRST Tejawant should construct Jodha's palace of Agra Fort.😕.!!...

Also, labour for these constructions came from Bengal and Gujarat mostly.!!.
Then, they settled in Agra, later.

I doubt Ekta has the budget to show so many palaces..??.
At the moment, i know this much ONLY...will confirm later.

Originally posted by: Pals2411

Thanks for the info. In fact I was looking forward to your PM and also commented about our much needed info when I came across a post on forum 'Aaj ka Teejavar kal ka tuhir das?' This is the link https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/98935163 By the way, do you have an idea about who Shivani (if that is what she was called then) was married to? Then this whole think will be cleared.😊

Just now saw your comment there.
Also got some PM's on this issue. And, about your question on Shivani...
Initially even i doubted did Jodha ever had sister as well..??...Yes, she had.. Infact, their's was a big clan. But, i did not came across names of them. Had i got so, i would have written here only, and this confusion would have been resolved..😊...

BTW, i am finding it hard to believe this Hakim-Shivani story..😕...Let's see..May be we get some clue in future...i will post, or you guys also share here...

Rajputana chronicles are not as easily available as Mughals..😕
Even MUZ's other title of 'Wali Ni'maat' , was encountered in Rajputana chronicles..
And, in an edict issued by Heera..
Not in a Mughal chronicle..!!!...
So, problem is lack of access.😕..

Link:
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/97854537

👍🏼 Finding relevant and right info about MUZ is already taxing, I doubt some actual information about her sisters will be available. Still lets keep trying...

Originally posted by: Pals2411

👍🏼 Finding relevant and right info about MUZ is already taxing, I doubt some actual information about her sisters will be available. Still lets keep trying...

On the Hakim-Shivani story, even I have my own doubts. Alliance between Jodha-Jalal (an emperor) was already looked down, I don't think the Rajputana clan will be happy about this new alliance.

On a humorous noted, was Shivani really Jodha's sister.😆 I mean on one hand where Jodha had to marry the person she hated the most (against her wishes and for the welfare of her kingdom), Shivani's desire of marrying a kaarigar will humiliate them and let them down

Thnx..👍🏼

@ Red...
Do not underestimate the chronicles. The moment you HIT the right place, you will find it difficult how to read the entire information. It will be tough to handle. Though, i agree with you, information about every prince or princess of a royal family is not available. Still, little bit information is present in the royal archives of almost every kingdom.😊

@Blue
This is NON-SENSE. Hakim-Shivani story..😕..("till date", i did not came across such info.)
I feel it will be a short-lived event. Nothing like this will/should happen.

@Pink
As i told you before also, i do not know the names. Still, let me tell you, Jodha had around 6 more brothers, apart from those shown on the show. They will come in future, as they fought for Akbar. You never know, what COULD Reality have been.!!... That's why, i try finding first, before rejecting.😊

Everything is not written in Akbarnama and Jahangirnama...Mughal History is a far far BIG subject. The type of events i keep encountering make me think like this.

Did you feel Humayun will ever have a look-alike..? He had actually...!!...This is one of biggest shock for me till date..

This is mentioned in my Part-2 thread- Akbar Ruqayya...
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/95903050
Ruqs MC track is on page-10...of this part..

And many future events, will be tough to believe. Just wait..


@Brown
It's not that such things happened with them only (if it happened..?...)
Ok. Try finding something about a daughter of Shah Jahan.😉

History hides things very nicely. You will get to know soon.😊

abhay thnx a lot for sharng such interestng things with us! 👏

Originally posted by: sreev12

abhay thnx a lot for sharng such interestng things with us! 👏

Welcome..
😊
BTW, i am missing KDR81 and lizzy.
I am sure, they would have added some information here.

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thnx..👍🏼

@ Red...
Do not underestimate the chronicles. The moment you HIT the right place, you will find it difficult how to read the entire information. It will be tough to handle. Though, i agree with you, information about every prince or princess of a royal family is not available. Still, little bit information is present in the royal archives of almost every kingdom.😊

@Blue
This is NON-SENSE. Hakim-Shivani story..😕..("till date", i did not came across such info.)
I feel it will be a short-lived event. Nothing like this will/should happen.

@Pink
As i told you before also, i do not know the names. Still, let me tell you, Jodha had around 6 more brothers, apart from those shown on the show. They will come in future, as they fought for Akbar. You never know, what COULD Reality have been.!!... That's why, i try finding first, before rejecting.😊

Everything is not written in Akbarnama and Jahangirnama...Mughal History is a far far BIG subject. The type of events i keep encountering make me think like this.

Did you feel Humayun will ever have a look-alike..? He had actually...!!...This is one of biggest shock for me till date..

This is mentioned in my Part-2 thread- Akbar Ruqayya...
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/95903050
Ruqs MC track is on page-10...of this part..

And many future events, will be tough to believe. Just wait..


@Brown
It's not that such things happened with them only (if it happened..?...)
Ok. Try finding something about a daughter of Shah Jahan.😉

History hides things very nicely. You will get to know soon.😊

That's true, Akbarnama and Jahangirnama are written on Akbar and Jahangir's attacks, wars, possessions, annexations, rulings, etc. and is all positive about them. Info about their personal relationships are not given in detail (many of the begums are only named, some also unnamed I feel). However finding the right source is difficult and I am wary about them, particularly when there is so much misinformation or altered information online.

Hats off to you Abhay..!! And also to all the others who research so much and post here! Seriously guys... Great job!!👏

I just had a question... Is it true that Aurangzeb had almost all the things related to MUZ destroyed?? He is said to be a Muslim fanatic... so it might be true... but can't be sure, because I had read this somewhere...
And I also had a request... Can you elaborate a little on Maan Singh?? I am beginning to feel that Wikipedia isn't such a reliable source after reading all these posts...😕
But of course, only when you get the time...!!
Thanks in advance!😊

Originally posted by: history_geek

Ok..friends...In response to your PM's...

Regarding, Tejawant(Shivani's fiance) , who is speculated to turn into Tuhir Das, who is considered to be chief architect of Fatehpur Sikri.!!..


😕..
😲..

i am NOT sure 100% that Tejawant = future Tuhir das.

But, one thing i READ was that PROBABLY Tuhir Das was from Bengal...😕..or was staying there...
Then,question is, How come he land in Amer..?..😕...

BUT,
Also, the palaces of Jodha in Agra Fort and Fatehpur Sikri had influence of Rajputana architecture, Bengal temple architecture, Gujarat Jain temple architecture...

Confused...as again this points to some association with Bengal..!!..

One thing is that, the architects who constructed Jodha's palace in Agra Fort(around 1563-64) were perhaps the SAME who constructed her palace in Fatehpur Sikri.(around 1571)...

So, if this works then, FIRST Tejawant should construct Jodha's palace of Agra Fort.😕.!!...

Also, labour for these constructions came from Bengal and Gujarat mostly.!!.
Then, they settled in Agra, later.

I doubt Ekta has the budget to show so many palaces..??.
At the moment, i know this much ONLY...will confirm later.

Originally posted by: akdha-fan

Hats off to you Abhay..!! And also to all the others who research so much and post here! Seriously guys... Great job!!

I just had a question... Is it true that Aurangzeb had almost all the things related to MUZ destroyed?? He is said to be a Muslim fanatic... so it might be true... but can't be sure, because I had read this somewhere...

And I also had a request... Can you elaborate a little on Maan Singh?? I am beginning to feel that Wikipedia isn't such a reliable source after reading all these posts...😕

But of course, only when you get the time...!!
Thanks in advance!

Thnx Shreya..

If i start telling you about Aurangzeb, then i will have to initiate a new thread.😕.
So, many "noble" deeds are 'credited' to him..

His biggest drawback --->> He mixed religion with politics.😕
Yes, he destroyed references associated with MUZ.

He is credited for "altering/ruining" lot of Mughal Literature.😕

If you have read, you must be knowing he ordered the Mughal library shutdown somewhere around late 1660's(date not 100% correct.). And, ordered 'IMMEDIATE SHUTDOWN' for writing chronicles..(have read this myself..😕.😕)

(guess the reason for shutdown of library & banning recording chronicles.?..what he did in that period.?..i know what he did...).

Right now, you may take 1 example.

Link:
https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/98345835


Wikipedia......----->>>> 😆...Do not talk about it...It confused me a lot, when i started my research...
For Man Singh, Wait..!..


******************************************************************************************

BTW, i have answered on Aurangzeb before also..See this.
A similar question.on Part-3 thread..Glory of Faith...

Originally posted by: MaddyO

There has been so much discussion about the painting already
Just want to point out another possibility

There was a practice in old days to repaint on old paintings (certainly in Europe). Since Aurangzeb destroyed or distorted lot of references to Jodha, it is quite possible he got somebody to paint over the original painting to give Jodha's clothes a Mugal touch.
Only if the original painting is checked can this point be clarified

Also in those days they used to be sitting stiffly or in formal pose for paintings. This painting is certainly intimate - holding hands, the way they are sitting. So the point that this painting could have been done for private use also seems valid.
A painting done for public viewing would be much more formal

Maddy,
I feel you already got the answer. Just adding some points.

Regarding repainting, it has already been found out by ann2012 that, the original one was a sketch. Even, i had written in my main post that the one which i saw did not appeared colorful. It was a faded portrait, appeared black and white.

Regarding Aurangzeb, what all he did is SOMETHING i do not want to write. But, FYI, as you mentioned he was responsible for destruction for many references with respect to MUZ. So, i am mentioning 1 incident directly related to her. The Agra Palace of MUZ had deities in it, in her temple. This was on the west end of the palace. They were destroyed by Aurangzeb, later around 1670. Around same time he destroyed temples in Banaras.(Hope you know..!..!..)

Regarding clothes, a separate thread is there(Part-4), and such "fashionable attires" existed at that time also. It's been mentioned in that thread, with major updates on comment pages.

************************************************************************************

I do not want to write more on Aurangzeb.. Otherwise, he has destroyed a lot..!!..
Apne bacho ko bhi nahi baksha..!!!!...
What more you expect..??...
*************************************************************************************
😊

Originally posted by: sonilausarun

Thankss a lot abhay 👍🏼

Hi All,
Though I still am too much pre-occupied.,But had to come on someone dear's request.😃

Point 1.
Tuhir Das was indeed from Bengal...Hence doubt is there whether this Tejwar is going to metamorphose into Tuhir Das or not... As there is no indication right now whether he was indigenous to Rajputana or was imported from somewhere else...!!

SO, We have to wait for the revelation...Hence Be patient Folks..!!😉

Point 2. Bharmal did not get another of his own daughters married to the Mughal Family...So the Hakim-Shivani Match-making isn't going to flourish...(If history is taken into account)
Instead, There is chance that some misunderstanding will create a rift between the Step-Brothers...😔

Point 3. Never came to read of Bharmal's daughter ELOPING till now...😕😕 So , if Shivani does get married to this guy, Akbar might play a role in convincing / settling the issue with his dual purpose Chaals...!!😳

Regards,
Kamal

P.S. About Aurangzeb, He Ruined things related to mainly Hindus and also Non-Mughals...The reason that he tampered maximum of MUZ's signs is also because she was the one with the maximum impact as well... 😊