If Duryodhan had been discarded....

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...do you think that the Kauravas would have co-existed w/ the Pandava

Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

With all the discussions about Duryodhan going about, an interesting thought struck me.

As we all know, when Duryodhan was born, he himself brayed like an ass, and a whole bunch of jackals began howling. On which Bheeshma & Vidura advised Dhritarashtra to abandon him, but the latter refused. Hence the resulting story.

But here is a thought experiment. What if Dhritarashtra had gone w/ the advice? After all, he'd still have had 100 sons (w/ Yuyutsu) and Gandhari would still have had 99. So let's say that Dhritarashtra, like Kunti w/ Karna, had abandoned Duryodhan or adopted him out to somebody in a different kingdom.

In that case, do you think the Kauravas & Pandavas would have peacefully lived? Would Yuyutsu or Dushashan - depending on who inherited the right to lead the Kauravas - have accepted Yudisthir as the sole yuvraj? Would Dushashan still have plotted the house of lac, or the game of dice or disrobed Draupadi?

Note that Shakuni's role as an instigator in all of this is debatable: the texts clearly mention that the original poisoning of Bhima was done by Duryodhan, not Shakuni. However, the house of lac conspiracy was born out of Dhritarashtra's own insecurity, Shakuni did participate in it, but the idea came from Dhritarashtra. So chances are that everything up to the division of Hastinapur would have gone on.

However, beyond that, once both the Kauravas & Pandavas got their own kingdom, do you think that history would have been unchanged w/ Dushashan running things instead of Duryodhan, or would they have been totally different?

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Medha.S

@Medha.S

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

It is hard to think just how duryodhan-y dushassan would be?Could he lead his brothers like duri did?The poisoning thing wouldnt happen so bheem would be without the boon.Dush was younger than both bheem & yudhi na? With two elders wont it be more difficult?In the pratiyogta, which pandava he could defeat?Would he make karna a king, was shakuni behind that in real?So even if lakshgrah took place .. after indraprasth, no dice game?Wow the ifs and if nots.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

I think the poisoning may still have happened, since Bhima did have a tendency to bully the other Kauravas. So would the house of lac, since Dhritarashtra initiated it.

But I think that Dushashan would have been content w/ Hastinapur & not craved Indraprastha. I also think he'd not have bothered befriending Karna, since he'd have shared the Pandava view of Karna as a suta putra, but wouldn't have accepted him even if Kunti had come forward & revealed that K was her son. I think that he'd have been more straightforward in his dealings & hostility, and would have refused Yudisthir's invitation to take part in the Rajasuya yagna.

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anoosree

@anoosree

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

Duryodhana was plain evil when it came to Pandavas. He was devoid of any emotion for them except

hate. He was not born with this hate, so basically Dritharashtra's insecurity and shakuni's instigation contributed a lot to what he became later.

Duryodhan's hate for pandavas was well beyond just a stake for hastinapur. He could not see them live and if thy lived, he won't let them live in peace. Hate to this extent cannot develop on its own. He was raised by Dritharashtra and Shakuni to hate Pandavas and claim to hastinapur was just a reason given to develop this hate and keep it burning. So if not Duryodhan, may be these two would have done the same with the other sons, after all Dritharashtra had 100.

Edited by anoosree - 12 years ago

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Medha.S

@Medha.S

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

But perhaps the poisoning would have happen in a different way without bheem being thrown in the river? So bheem would have died?
Duhsasasn wont be so subtle and swift, yes. So if refused to attend the yajna then bheem and arjun would have gone on war with hastinapur?With duri and karna, draupadi swayamvar would be peaceful too.No subhadra haran because balram wont have duriyodhan to promise her as a wife.Simple wedding for subhadra and arjuna without krishna having a reason to make them run away?

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Arijit

@Arijit007

Sparkler

Posted: 12 years ago

without duryodhan, shakuni would have lacked an importend pawn yo destroy hastinapur, may be he couldhave chosen dushaashan for his plan, may be the evil acts of duryodhan would have been done by dushaasans or never would have happened. can't say it actualy.

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halfbloodprince

@WindsOfHeaven

Achiever

+ 8

Posted: 12 years ago

Nice topic.

In case Dhrit would have abandoned Duryodhana considering the advice of the wise men, perhaps history would have been a bit different. Knowing that Duryo was actually demon Kali, I don't think Dusshasan would have been exactly like him. Shakuni and Dhrit's roles are quite important in how Duryo turned out to be...so perhaps Dusshasan and others would have been close to Duryodhana. But I doubt they would have been as impactive as Duryodhana was. Maybe...there would have been less damage..Karna's tale changes too, as Duryo befriended him.

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shruti

@-Nymphadora-

Stunner

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

What if Duryodhan still acted like a pain even after he was discarded at birth?
What if he & Karna ganged up?
Duri wAs Demon Kali,i highly doubt he would have left anyone at peace

If Duryodhan wasnt there maybe The war may not have happened
But then i doubt the equations would have been any better
Dritrashtra may have held a grudge for having to loose his first born
What if Dushana under the influence of his father developed a grudge too?

Prior to Duryodhans birth there was a foundation for bitterness anyways
His presense aggrevated it
But im pretty sure there still would have been conflict
Either directly or indirectly

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: medha00
But perhaps the poisoning would have happen in a different way without bheem being thrown in the river? So bheem would have died?
Duhsasasn wont be so subtle and swift, yes. So if refused to attend the yajna then bheem and arjun would have gone on war with hastinapur?With duri and karna, draupadi swayamvar would be peaceful too.No subhadra haran because balram wont have duriyodhan to promise her as a wife.Simple wedding for subhadra and arjuna without krishna having a reason to make them run away?

The way the Rajasuya yagna worked, the Pandavas invaded all other kingdoms & subdued them. Some kingdoms, like Panchala, Madra, Dwarka were allies, so didn't come under their RADAR.

W/ Hastinapur, Yudisthir didn't regard himself as separate from the Kurus, so none of his brothers were sent against them. But if Dushashan had refused to attend it, that wouldn't have by itself been an act of war, given that Hastinapur may still have had representatives like Bheeshma, Vidura, et al. That way, Dushashan's jealousy wouldn't have been aroused, and the Kauravas would have lived independently from the Pandavas, and may have launched their own wars to win over other kingdoms. Since they'd still have had Bheeshma & Drona w/ them, as well as Bhurishrava & others, they'd have been safe from any influence of Indraprastha.

Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Stunner

+ 6

Posted: 12 years ago

#10

Originally posted by: -ShrNi-
What if Duryodhan still acted like a pain even after he was discarded at birth?
What if he & Karna ganged up?
Duri wAs Demon Kali,i highly doubt he would have left anyone at peace

If Duryodhan wasnt there maybe The war may not have happened
But then i doubt the equations would have been any better
Dritrashtra may have held a grudge for having to loose his first born
What if Dushana under the influence of his father developed a grudge too?

Prior to Duryodhans birth there was a foundation for bitterness anyways
His presense aggrevated it
But im pretty sure there still would have been conflict
Either directly or indirectly

But legally, things would have been very different.

For one, Duryodhan would no longer have been Dhritarashtra's legal heir - that would have been Dushashan. So Bheeshma & Drona would not have been beholden to him the way they were.

Dhritarashtra may have held a grudge, but Dushashan may not have supported it, since he'd have stood to lose his status as the leader of the Kauravas. But yeah, I too think that he'd not have been warm towards the Pandavas, since they'd stand b/w him & the throne.

I doubt that Dushashan would have befriended Karna, and in absense of that, Kunti may have told her sons about their relationship, and made a coalition of 6 instead of 5.

Where I think things would have been different is that Dushashan would have had a policy of being distant from the Pandavas, and even allying w/ their enemy kingdoms. But it wouldn't have gone to a game of dice or an all out war, since Dushashan knew that he was no match for Bhima, and only did what he did b'cos he believed that Duryodhan could protect them.

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