Affirmative Action in India.... - Page 7

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

See you are delving into the minorities issues...The problem here is muslims ever since the Partition time have feared communal violence... and thus seggregated into communities... Most muslims are like into small shops/traders..etc... so any communal disharmony breaks... they want to be able to protect businesses and lives... - First of all most hindus cant really be violent at drop of a hat (with the exception of some whio can be inhuman and gory)....whereas for many muslims though it could be true religion can make them take gory steps... So what happens here is whatever you do.. even if you give them 80% reservation they arent going to get to those "Hindu colleges" possibly... The reservation issue is slightly different... Its only for dalit hindus... who have faced social delineation and have to get into teh mainstream.. Is that possible?.. maybe... to uplift them that is only if its a planned and terminating proces.. u cant have it go on and on for decades...and I am a priest class brahmin..supposed to be total vegetarian no vegetarian fish😆... on the side...

With minorities its different... Christains most of who were convrted . still bear the non-violent and non-aggressive stand on religion compared to muslims which is not the case....So whereas I am veri comfortable finding myself stuck in middle of riots in Christain pockets of bandra...i shudder to think if I am stuck in Abdul rehman st/bhindi bazaar in mumbai... I have both my ears pierced..so my pants dont get pulled down😆. -( its like better to be found dead with the pants on 😆. Although it sounds like a joke now - during riots its shuddering )But humans are humans and everybody can be bad - just need a convincing reason.. thats it.. .not a religion.

All said I have many muslim friends and many of them from Guajarat and Pakistan.... .I am not criticizing anyone as much i am elucidating their propensities...so reservations will never work here. If we have no communal riots in India for next 20/30 years maybe the trust will develop..I think the next generation shiv sena mbai bhindi bazaar muslims will be the Green-card holders here in the US... and will give their fellows some purpose than wasting time and rioting.. but for now... its just depriving a General Category guy a seat because of reservation....😊 In short no Affirmative action for anybody but the Dalits...I mean the hindu dalits... for muslims and others they should provide ,merit scholarships....ok easy merit scholarships...😊

Well... I do understand ur fear of havin ur pants pulled down while walking through bhindi bazar... That is coupled by the fact tht Muslims form a large chunk of the population (14 Crore aint no joke!!) while Chirstians a real tiny chunk (2 Crore of so)....So Muslims as a community have more power to do something than the Chirstians can possibly have... being aggressive at the drop of a hat has a lot to do with the situation. Hindus are more a secure lot with the large population that they have. And come to think of it.. Most Hindus arent really bothered abt Minority problems till theres a Godhra or sumthin lik tht...Au contrarie... A Muslim in India is born cautious. He is conditioned to be on his toes all the time when 80% of the people around him are *different* from what he is... Rather he is **different** from them... This probably is why aggression comes easily to them...

But back to the point... The Muslim community cannot be left where it is.... There has to be some drastic step taken to force them out of where they are right now.... After all 14% of the country's population is no joke!! Gettin them into Hindu colleges only to face the wrath of the College authorities (Who'd no doubt blame the reservation system) is not really a desirable thing as of now... But wht abt those government colleges which are supposed to be secular? Oh these colleges have never felt the necessity to be secular cuz they just have an odd Muslim or Christian student here n there...

Merit Scholarships can be another probably less controversial method of bringing the Muslim sudents to the mainstream.... I still wouldnt rule out reservations without it being implemented for a change... We have tried everything... Why not reservation?

Originally posted by: swordfishh

Well... I do understand ur fear of havin ur pants pulled down while walking through bhindi bazar... That is coupled by the fact tht Muslims form a large chunk of the population (14 Crore aint no joke!!) while Chirstians a real tiny chunk (2 Crore of so)....So Muslims as a community have more power to do something than the Chirstians can possibly have... being aggressive at the drop of a hat has a lot to do with the situation. Hindus are more a secure lot with the large population that they have. And come to think of it.. Most Hindus arent really bothered abt Minority problems till theres a Godhra or sumthin lik tht...Au contrarie... A Muslim in India is born cautious. He is conditioned to be on his toes all the time when 80% of the people around him are *different* from what he is... Rather he is **different** from them... This probably is why aggression comes easily to them...

But back to the point... The Muslim community cannot be left where it is.... There has to be some drastic step taken to force them out of where they are right now.... After all 14% of the country's population is no joke!! Gettin them into Hindu colleges only to face the wrath of the College authorities (Who'd no doubt blame the reservation system) is not really a desirable thing as of now... But wht abt those government colleges which are supposed to be secular? Oh these colleges have never felt the necessity to be secular cuz they just have an odd Muslim or Christian student here n there...

Merit Scholarships can be another probably less controversial method of bringing the Muslim sudents to the mainstream.... I still wouldnt rule out reservations without it being implemented for a change... We have tried everything... Why not reservation?

Muslims are part of the main-stream by and large... there are acheivers in every field.... The 4 ruling khans of bollywood, mf hussain, president kalam..

Dalits who have been achievers have still found it difficult to be part of the main-stream....and i have a feeling people still look down upon them...for whatever reason.... even of they have been achievers...

Can you list 10 dalit (SC/ST/OBC) achievers...?

(There been quite a few in poetry and arts in Maharashtra but hardly with national presence)

Reservation is a extremely powerful mechanism of getting historically socially ostracized classes into main-stream... (If it is used in US it should be good with a good reason) misusing it and leaving 60-80% hindus disgruntled and crying foul is not exactly the right way to handle the situation..."dalit" muslims... thats a bad joke...

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

(If it is used in US it should be good with a good reason)

Didn't get it.😕

Originally posted by: souro

Didn't get it.😕

This term Affirmative action comes from US.. It is basically a pro-active form of reservation...

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

This term Affirmative action comes from US.. It is basically a pro-active form of reservation...

That I know but I thought you people are discussing mainly about Reservation policy in India. Anyway do continue with your discussions.😊

Originally posted by: sunp

Oh so the Americans are doing it is it has to be right argument, they are fast running away from it like it is infested bubonic plague 😉

https://usa.usembassy.de/classroom/affirmativeaction.htm

Affirmative Action

WebQuest | Background | Articles/ Polls/ Statistics Affirmative action measures were an outgrowth and continuation of efforts in the United States to remedy discrimination against racial and ethnic minorities and women. These measures addressed the recognition that certain patterns of disadvantage and legal and social exclusion might require race- or gender-conscious measures to achieve equality of opportunity. The first significant wave of progress in enhancing employment opportunities for African Americans and women came during the labor shortages of World War II and immediately afterwards. The civil rights movement had its dramatic victories -- Brown v. Board of Education and the other cases striking down segregation, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 -- which helped advance the Constitution's promise of equal opportunity to all minorities and women. Discrimination in education was the target of the original breakthrough civil rights cases. Education has consistently been a central focus of civil rights efforts because education is the gateway to opportunity. In 1955, only 4.9 percent of college students were black. This figure rose to 6.5 percent during the next five years, but by 1965 had slumped back to 4.9 percent. Only in the wake of affirmative action measures in the late 1960s and early 1970s did the percentage of black college students begin to climb. The 1978 Regents of the University of California v. Bakke Supreme Court case set the parameters of educational affirmative action. According to this Supreme Court judgment, colleges could use race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions decisions but could not designate set numbers of spaces for members of specific ethnic and racial groups. Unintended consequences related to fairness and racial equality have complicated perceptions and influenced public opinion relating to the effectiveness and the future of affirmative action programs. President Bush recently announced his administration will argue before the U.S. Supreme Court that the University of Michigan's admissions policies -- which currently award students a significant number of extra points based solely on their race, and establishes numerical admission targets for incoming minority students -- are unconstitutional. President Bush cited programs in California and Florida and Texas where race-neutral admissions policies have resulted in levels of minority attendance for incoming students that are close to, and in some instances slightly surpass, those under the old race-based approach. These programs guarantee admissions to the top students from high schools throughout the state, including low-income neighborhoods.

Is it the specific case in michigan or is it a general plague.?..😆.. since I know about this michigan case...Thinking west is almost always right... if they perceive a need then it does make sense..😊