Jodha Akbar 67: Changing equations? - Page 4

Loved your analysis...i believe soon all the misunderstandings will be cleared out!

WoW...Shyamala (and all others here...😊)
saw 2day's epi...😃 Some respite at last...I can see that my thoughts and questions are somehow getting across to the Cvs...😉 and here are the effects !! If one looks into my earlier posts to u Shyamala, I had the same line of thought whose answers were partially shown 2day...😊

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3740547&PID=92359822&#p92359822

specially on the question " Isn't it very very unrealistic for the two of them to be always saying harsh words & exchanging Angry Glares instead of shy and indulgent glances once in a while at least??😳
All the more when Jodha is actually coming out Squeaky Clean even from the Markiest of Allegations?? 🤔 "

And I now have the answer to this also..."...Am a bit surprised to find Paridhi's Jodha giving "Soft look" with her large beautiful eyes instead of Glaring even after Badi-Ammi epi and Rajat's Jalal too, returning it with a bit "Pleasantly Surprised" stare!!😳 I wonder What made them cool off so soon ??😉"

Nice to see Jodha having the good sense of defending her Ever-erring Husband in public and showing how she is suffering from Hypocrisy ...!!😆 And even better to see Jalal Blushing and Gushing (am exaggerating a bit 😃) hearing his defense from his "Sanskaari" Patni..!!😉😉

But could not help but giggle seeing my even earlier prediction too, coming true here as Ambe Mata comes to JA's rescue...!! ( As I predicted that only supernatural intervention can help the duo in this hopeless case ...So Typical of EK productions🤣) Seems Kanha has taken temporary leave becoz of Jodha's constant bugging !!😆

But as far as MA is concerned , Jalal again will be fooled by her using the Ace of "Duplicate" citing the Mullah Beqazi case as here she only needs to find a person with similar "Eyes"...Easiest of tasks I guess for a Pro like her...!!😕

And , I have this uncanny feel that the Palace /Harem is actually unlucky for JA, as whenever they are out of it , they are better -sensed and behaved towards each other , and the moment they get in, the Badgering starts...!! ( just for info, it says in Fatehpur history, that the Emperor was told by some astrologer that Agra fort was inauspicious for him and his progeny becoz of some black magic curse/spell , which all the more egged him to shift to FS later!!)

However, Tiger Treat eludes us even now leaving us high and dry after today's softening of emotions!!😛

Regards,
Kamal

Kamal,

Very nice stuff, all of this, but as usual😉 it is on the wrong thread. Please copy it to my Denouement? post that I have just put up. I am off to bed at last!

Shyamala

Originally posted by: KDR81

WoW...Shyamala (and all others here...😊)
saw 2day's epi...😃 Some respite at last...I can see that my thoughts and questions are somehow getting across to the Cvs...😉 and here are the effects !! If one looks into my earlier posts to u Shyamala, I had the same line of thought whose answers were partially shown 2day...😊

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3740547&PID=92359822&#p92359822

specially on the question " Isn't it very very unrealistic for the two of them to be always saying harsh words & exchanging Angry Glares instead of shy and indulgent glances once in a while at least??😳
All the more when Jodha is actually coming out Squeaky Clean even from the Markiest of Allegations?? 🤔 "

And I now have the answer to this also..."...Am a bit surprised to find Paridhi's Jodha giving "Soft look" with her large beautiful eyes instead of Glaring even after Badi-Ammi epi and Rajat's Jalal too, returning it with a bit "Pleasantly Surprised" stare!!😳 I wonder What made them cool off so soon ??😉"

Nice to see Jodha having the good sense of defending her Ever-erring Husband in public and showing how she is suffering from Hypocrisy ...!!😆 And even better to see Jalal Blushing and Gushing (am exaggerating a bit 😃) hearing his defense from his "Sanskaari" Patni..!!😉😉

But could not help but giggle seeing my even earlier prediction too, coming true here as Ambe Mata comes to JA's rescue...!! ( As I predicted that only supernatural intervention can help the duo in this hopeless case ...So Typical of EK productions🤣) Seems Kanha has taken temporary leave becoz of Jodha's constant bugging !!😆

But as far as MA is concerned , Jalal again will be fooled by her using the Ace of "Duplicate" citing the Mullah Beqazi case as here she only needs to find a person with similar "Eyes"...Easiest of tasks I guess for a Pro like her...!!😕

And , I have this uncanny feel that the Palace /Harem is actually unlucky for JA, as whenever they are out of it , they are better -sensed and behaved towards each other , and the moment they get in, the Badgering starts...!! ( just for info, it says in Fatehpur history, that the Emperor was told by some astrologer that Agra fort was inauspicious for him and his progeny becoz of some black magic curse/spell , which all the more egged him to shift to FS later!!)

However, Tiger Treat eludes us even now leaving us high and dry after today's softening of emotions!!😛

Regards,
Kamal

Nice post! And I totally agree with your points. The way Jalal recalled his childhood was very moving that for a second I forgot that MA was bad, and I was also shocked to see Jodha not thinking about his words on his struggle at all, and she didn't even try to think that maybe this is why he trusts her so much because she saved his life, and I feel like sometimes Moti is smarter than Jodha especially when she asked her that if she hates him so much than why was she hurt when his unborn child was killed and she couldn't give a befitting reply and started with her normal Grihna mantra. Coming to Ruquayia, I liked her little game that she played with MA to get a gist of the truth but MA being an experienced player easily conquered victory in that game but Ruquayia still wasn't convinced and I'm sure she'll do her own investigation, and you're right Hoshiyar is very nifty. Now the precap was so cute that I watched it literally like 5 times and it's nice to see them communicating calmly towards each other, can't wait to see the next episode. But I'm still very eager as to when they will end this track and bring out the tiger track, thanks again for a lovely analysis on the episode!

Thank you, my dear Jai, and now go on to Episode 68, Denoument? and I can guarantee that you will be even happier!

Shyamala B.Cowsik

Originally posted by: Jaisoif

Nice post! And I totally agree with your points. The way Jalal recalled his childhood was very moving that for a second I forgot that MA was bad, and I was also shocked to see Jodha not thinking about his words on his struggle at all, and she didn't even try to think that maybe this is why he trusts her so much because she saved his life, and I feel like sometimes Moti is smarter than Jodha especially when she asked her that if she hates him so much than why was she hurt when his unborn child was killed and she couldn't give a befitting reply and started with her normal Grihna mantra. Coming to Ruquayia, I liked her little game that she played with MA to get a gist of the truth but MA being an experienced player easily conquered victory in that game but Ruquayia still wasn't convinced and I'm sure she'll do her own investigation, and you're right Hoshiyar is very nifty. Now the precap was so cute that I watched it literally like 5 times and it's nice to see them communicating calmly towards each other, can't wait to see the next episode. But I'm still very eager as to when they will end this track and bring out the tiger track, thanks again for a lovely analysis on the episode!

A very,very perceptive analysis, Tripti, especially the part I have marked in blue. Your Mahaam Anga is a very complex creature, and today she really scared me when she told Adham Hum kahin nahin jayenge. Sharbat piyo!

A single caveat to this superb take on her. I think Mahaam's resentment has to do more with her being, when the chips are down, only a daayima, not a begum, not to having had to neglect Adham to care for Jalal.. Which is why she is so rude and overbearing to the daasis,and very bigoted towards the Hindu ones. The latter is because she resents having been a hunted refugee in Rajput palaces, in Umarkot and in Madhya Pradesh.

As for Jodha, the part marked red seems to me to be more of wishful thinking on your part than anything based on fact, Take today, which was a very bad day for Jalal. He is crushed by the revelation that he has all along been, as you put it so vividly, cuddling a black mamba that has eaten up his child.

I would have liked it if Jodha had spared a moment to think of what this would mean for Jalal,but she has no clue. Whereas Salima's face reflected Jalal's despair as he stood up to leave, and there is nothing at all between them, except empathy. The problem, as I have pointed out often, is that Jodha has no imagination and so cannot visualise how Jalal would be feeling once uski aankhon ka parda khul gaya. Instead of trying to think it out from his point of view and at least trying to understand it, Moti and she are busy exchanging high fives.

Even Bharmal is better, in his understanding of Jalal's motivations, and also of the total unsuitability of Ratan Singh as a husband for Sukanya. When he said that, I exclaimed At last! Why did he not say this to his daughter in Agra before he left for Amer?

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: Mallika-E-Bhais

In all her outlandish expressions, Maham Anga was a treat to watch! As Jalal was emotionally declaring how much she means to him & how he would do anything for the ones he loves (Jalal very much has a heart & sometimes I strongly suspect he knows just how weak it can be, and thus often repeats how he doesn't have one..) he was cradling her in his arms.

And it struck me how much it looked like a snake being cradled. Jalal doesn't know yet what his "Badi Ammi" is but the day he does, he will be horror-struck at the black cobra he was cuddling in his arms! This image was reinforced by the tiny snippet of Maham Anga doing a swivel in her rooms right after this scene. She looked like the famed mamba , right before it strikes down its prey! And strike down she did. Her poor servant & eunuch's deep belief in how close she is to the Mughal Sultanate's Wazir-E-Aalia. And Resham's horror-struck face was over the top but matched Maham Anga's, step by step!

While Maham Anga was over the top & vulgar(?) in her expressions I wasn't surprised that she by expression '& tone nodded in the affirmative when she looked at Jodha. And the reason is simple-In all her insecurity ( it stings anew each time she realises that at the end of the day she is after-all, just a servant. This is her vulnerability & in her eyes, her biggest setback. But also the very reason that gives her strength to display an impetrenable facade & a Will stronger than steel!) her ruthless itntelligence & villainy; she is very vain. Too confident over the hold she has over Jalal, her assured position as Wazir-E-Aalia bu most importantly (and as you rightly said) she underestimates Jodha. Not Jodha per say, because it is the Jodha's purity & goodness of heart that she's scared of as she realises that this alone is what can truly win Jalal's heart; but of Jodha's intelligence. She simply doesn't believe that Jodha has that kind of cunning & snake-like intelligence that Maham Anga has got as a gift from Satan himself! Am sure you noticed that, she never gave an inch away to Ruqaiiya. Why? Because she well knows what Ruqaiyya is capable of if she wants to get down to it. It is this, more than anything else that makes her feel secure, secure enough to reveal to Jodha & infact, take pleasure on seeing Jodha's furious helpless & Jalal's livid diatribe, that yes! YES Jodha Begum! It was I! I who was responsible for killing the beloved foetus of Jalal!

Whenever I see Maham Anga with Jalal I see a woman who in her schizophrenic mind does care a lot about her Imperial son, might love him too & yet there is a certain resentment. And I feel the resentment exists because of all the time that was taken away from her own flesh & blood useless son, Adham Khan, and given to the future Emperor Jalal, to secure her shining future in the Mughal Sultanate that that 6 year old she cradled from arrows , is shaping today.

Jodha's scene with Moti was revealing. In all her "grihna"mode inadvertently am sure , Jodha revealed her true feelings towards Jalal, something I see her do nowadays with more consistency. She is Jalal's shubhchintak & at some deep level. , has begun to care about him. Even I was very surprised that she never displayed any emotion or even a slight feeling towards the hapless & abused 6 year old that her husband was, but I think the realisation is at a much more subconscious level Aunty, but despite not saying it, Jodha feels it. And unwittingly, displays it through word, and sometimes action. 😊

Moti Bai will be the biggest mirror for Jodha's feelings & I can't wait for the day she turns around & tells her, "Aap chahe maane ya na maane Jodha, Aap Shahenshaah Jee se adhik prem karti hain."

P. S. the precap has me sighing! I can't wait for tonight & so I shall not say one bit. These CVs I am convinced stalk these forums only to come up with promos & precaps that have us laughing, anxious or feeling pink; and then when the episode has been aired, sit afar & laugh at us! 😆

My dear Sangeeta,

Thank you for one of the most insightful posts on Mahaam and Jodha-Jalaal that it has ever been my privilege to read. But first things first. I hope your thesis shaped up well. What was it about? So soon you will be a PhD!

You know, I found your rationale for Mahaam's getting rid of all of Jalal's unborn babies very plausible, for I always felt that such an intelligent woman could never have imagined that a dayimaa's son, no matter how capable a general he was, would ever be allowed to ascend the throne. I thought that she had once offered the prospect to Adham as a lollipop to get him to behave at least halfway sensibly, and then it became the monkey on her back.

But I do not buy Megha's theory about Mahaam resenting that she lost out on time with Adham because of Jalal. If she had had a second child, what then? Plus all her stature and power came from that caring and Jalal's gratitude - so rare in a king - for that.

Do see my response above to Megha, where I have suggested that Mahaam's resentment has to do more with her being, when the chips are down, only a daayima, not a begum, not to having had to neglect Adham to care for Jalal.. Which is why she is so rude and overbearing to the daasis,and very bigoted towards the Hindu ones. The latter is because she resents having been a hunted refugee in Rajput palaces, in Umarkot and in Madhya Pradesh.
About Jodha too, I would buy the other theory, as far as the deliberate demonisation of Jalal goes. She hates him irrationally, in that she believes every black rumour about him, even when Moti suggests that much of the crimes laid routinely at his door might not be within his knowledge at all. I always found this Jalal ka sar obsession of hers , even at a time when he had done nothing against her family personally, unwarranted and bloodthirsty.So she ignores anything positive about him that she might now note, like his love for Rahim, as she does not want that image disturbed.

But I do not buy the Ameri cultural exclusivity part. It should apply equally to her relationship with Hamida then, and she is perennially on a lovefest with her!

Regardless, of these reservations , it is a fascinating post of remarkable quality. Thank you for letting me read it. All the very best for the defence of your thesis.

And do read my Skeleton behind the mirror post on the Friday episode, especially for the Jalal-Rahim scene.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: smiletherapy

Dear Shyamala Aunty, another fantastic post! Though I've been too busy to reply of late (finally finished the thesis!), I've been keeping up with all your brilliant posts. They are just too insightful, witty and interesting to pass up even for a day.

As usual I agree with much of your take on this topic, though I do think there might be some other motives for MA's serial feoticide than just Adham Khan's feelings or some delusion he might rise in the ranks--so don't lose hope yet. I would argue, that her motivation has more to do with protecting her own standing with Jalal. With Ruq's pregnancy it was clear that Ruq would use the pregnancy to try to oust MA from power, so that was a decidedly immediate threat to her power. But in the case of the other pregnancies which were not such obvious direct threats to her power, I think she still felt threatened as she knew that Jalal's affection for his child would change him in various ways (the dreaded growing of his heart that was talked about) but also just in terms of now MA who occupies the top spot will be bumped by the baby. She feeds off of Jalal's emotional attachment to her. A kid, especially for one as eager to be a father as Jalal, is a game-changer in many predictable and unpredictable ways. If MA was fearful of Jodha's potential hold on his heart, then most certainly the child's hold on Jalal is exponentially worse to my thinking. At the very least, I think of Adham's drunken tirade to MA about how he would have to spend his life bowing down to Jalal's heir--well the same could be said for MA.

So all of that just to hopefully 'redeem' MA as a worthy villain, rather than a delusional one who would try to put her moronic son on the throne.

I also think Mallika-e-Bhal's point is very well said: Whenever I see Maham Anga with Jalal I see a woman who in her schizophrenic mind does care a lot about her Imperial son, might love him too & yet there is a certain resentment. And I feel the resentment exists because of all the time that was taken away from her own flesh & blood useless son, Adham Khan, and given to the future Emperor Jalal, to secure her shining future in the Mughal Sultanate that that 6 year old she cradled from arrows , is shaping today.

I have been thinking the same thing--especially based on the scene on Friday where she finally cops to the crime. She's totally like a Jekyll and Hyde--even referring to the evil MA in third person. I kept wondering if the CV's intended to portray her as someone with a split personality. So even resentment to Jalal's future children might add to her motivations to force miscarriages in the harem.

Re: Jodha, I long ago wrote a post about Jodha's need to "other" Jalal--that is to define him as completely different from herself and thus, not have to admit he's human just like her. By painting him as so awful and inhuman, she can then tell herself she doesn't have to apply all her high principles, ideals and manners to him and more importantly she can keep up her defenses against feeling something for him. So all her annoying ranting about how horrid he is and her grinha is all just a defense mechanism on her part. She tries to keep her image of him as "other," as inhuman and barbaric in tact, so that she won't develop feelings for him. But of course, as many have already noted, we all know that's not really working. The more she gets to see of his human side, especially the suffering 6 year old (she loves children after all) it becomes more and more impossible for her to do that.

Why is she resisting feelings for him? I think given all that has happened between them, she obviously still doesn't trust him. But more than that, as Ruq, MA, and Jalal himself have hammered into her, she doesn't believe he will ever return her affections in kind. That she doesn't want to fall in love with him, someone who will never love her back (as she believes) in the same way is now I think what is mainly motivating her to try to keep up her defenses against showing even the smallest amount of feeling towards him--even compassion for a man grieving over a lost child or for the scared little child that man once was. Given all she's seen and heard, she's justified in that belief.

Also, her own identity I think plays into this as well. Another huge reason for "othering" is in order to define yourself. She's very attached to Amer and her identity as the epitome of Ameri ideals and sanskars. For anyone marrying someone of a different religion and/or culture, their own religious and cultural values are going to come into question to some greater or lesser degree. That is to say, as she learns about the Mughal traditions and customs, some of which she now has to adopt, they may contradict or (even worse for Jodha) coincide with what her own beliefs and traditions. Cultural clashes might bring about some questions about one's own beliefs (though they can just as easily entrench each party); but the areas in which the cultures share similarities, serve to remind Jodha once more that "hmm, these folks are not that different than me.' And that makes seeing them as different and other, much harder, which in turn, also blurs the lines of her own identity to some greater or lesser extent. Greater if most of her identity is wrapped up in her Ameri identity; Lesser if she has a stronger sense of self that is understood as taking from Ameri culture but not comprised solely by it... Hope that makes sense.

In any case, I prefer to see Jodha in that light, as it makes all her seemingly callous refusal to spare even the slightest bit of compassion or warmth to Jalal a defense mechanism which is not truly indicative of what she truly feels. It gives her character much more depth; I feel like we've gotten a lot of depth of character to Jalal but not as much for Jodha lately, so she really does seem to appear as the unimaginative, unempathetic, obstinate woman you characterize her as unfortunately!

Thanks again for another lovely post--and really for weeks of wonderful posts that provided much needed breaks in the past months!

Sangeeta

Oh yes, the part where she admonishes Adham & asks him to "Sharbat piyo!" Had me almost breaking it in goosebumps, Ashwini is a fine actress & am quite sure has had good theatre experience. She strikes me to be a theatre actress.