DOES CLASS MATTER WHEN DECIDING MARRIAGE

These thoughts came to me while watching the episode yesterday.

Ila was hell-bent on not allowing the armaan-jassi union to take place, and it was mainly because Jassi was not of their class......She was able to accept the fact that her daughter had a marriage life gone all awry. She is able to accept the fact that her daughter-in-law-to-be has committed some serious crimes for which technically she could go to prison. But she cannot accept Jasmeet Walia as her son's bride as she was just a maamooli secretary.....

Now obviously this is a slightly skewed version of reality

....However, the Indian society is known to have very strict ideals when it comes to marraige...i.e. that one must get married only within the chosen/allowed perimeters (caste/sub-caste) of society. In the long run, generally family ties between couples who have undergone arranged marriages may seem smoother as it has taken place sorely with the permission of the adults in the household....Indians also respect arranged marriages as they feel it is the best way to preserve their respective cultures. People married within the same class/caste lead daily lives in a similar fashion, understand each other better even before getting started, celebrate the same festivals in the same fashion, follow the same ideals i.e .........overall the number of compromises made by the bride and groom is far lesser ....

on the other hand..................

Do you think love is stronger than any family ties?

As society is mordernizing, do you think love marriages between different classes/religions/castes can exist as harmoniously as people married within the same class/caste/religion?

If your parents/family were totally against the person you loved as they were from a different class/religion/caste would you forsake one for the other and which one?

And lastly in trying to preserve one's race so strictly, do you think asians have become racist?

When you do discuss the pros and cons of this discussion, please do not mention one off examples and keep the discussion general......otherwise it may tend to skew the outcome.

thanx.......

Originally posted by: lashforever

These thoughts came to me while watching the episode yesterday.

Ila was hell-bent on not allowing the armaan-jassi union to take place, and it was mainly because Jassi was not of their class......She was able to accept the fact that her daughter had a marriage life gone all awry. She is able to accept the fact that her daughter-in-law-to-be has committed some serious crimes for which technically she could go to prison. But she cannot accept Jasmeet Walia as her son's bride as she was just a maamooli secretary.....

Television has really blown the middle class concept out of proportion and gives far to much emphasis on class differences. I think this is an exaggeration of reality because I cant see real people condeming someone because of class... I hate the way a 'mamooli' insaan is picturised and do not believe in middle class or upper class...Ila is obviously still living in the dark ages. I think Indian television is wrong to sterotype a 'middle class mentality' ...it forces people to look at inane things like bank balances rather than what is really important - humanity, honesty etc.

Now obviously this is a slightly skewed version of reality

....However, the Indian society is known to have very strict ideals when it comes to marraige...i.e. that one must get married only within the chosen/allowed perimeters (caste/sub-caste) of society. In the long run, generally family ties between couples who have undergone arranged marriages may seem smoother as it has taken place sorely with the permission of the adults in the household....Indians also respect arranged marriages as they feel it is the best way to preserve their respective cultures. People married within the same class/caste lead daily lives in a similar fashion, understand each other better even before getting started, celebrate the same festivals in the same fashion, follow the same ideals i.e .........overall the number of compromises made by the bride and groom is far lesser ....

I come from a family where most of my cousins have married outside the cast creed race religion framework. In a progressive society, I think there is no place for such concepts. Understanding between couples cannot be attributed to similar backgrounds. Though I agree that it is important in some cases, I think there are other factors at play that are more important to a peaceful and happy marriage. Infact, I believe that the rate of separations and divorce is as high in arranged marriages (if not higher). Ofcourse, there will be cultural differences that may become more evident and pronounced as one gets older. How that affects a marriage would depend on the maturity and understanding between the couple. At the end of the day, I think it is wrong to force something on children ...especially something like marriage. Children after a certain age should make their own decisions and learn to live by those decisions, however wrong or right. As a society, I think we give far to much importance to cast and class. Also, I think the biggest compromise made by the bride and groom in an arranged marriage is accepting the concept itself...getting married to someone unfamiliar is a compromise. I am not saying thats bad and have nothing against the concept...I guess what I mean is, Arranged marriages work for certain people and dont for others. There can be no hard and fast rule that one is better than the other.

on the other hand..................

Do you think love is stronger than any family ties?

As society is mordernizing, do you think love marriages between different classes/religions/castes can exist as harmoniously as people married within the same class/caste/religion?
I guess Ive answered this question in my previous point

If your parents/family were totally against the person you loved as they were from a different class/religion/caste would you forsake one for the other and which one?
I think the key is not to forsake either...Parents will eventually come around...No parent wants to see their child alone forever. However, I am sure there are parents who will be obstinate and refuse to see other points of view. In such a case, AFTER waiting for a reasonable amount of time for parental approval, and with adeuate warning to my parents, I would get married to the person of my choice (ofcourse I am already married so in my case for any second marriage I would need my husbands permission😆)

And lastly in trying to preserve one's race so strictly, do you think asians have become racist?

I actually believe that Asians, especially Indians, are more racist than most others. Infact Indians are racist amongst themselves. There is too much emphsis on colour of skin, cast etc etc. Infact, fair and lovely ads should be banned! Even when you come outside India, I find Indians abroad more racist. Just stand in a line at the airport in India and the lady checking your bag is incredibly rude to you but exceedingly sweet to the white skinned foriegner behind you!

When you do discuss the pros and cons of this discussion, please do not mention one off examples and keep the discussion general......otherwise it may tend to skew the outcome.

thanx.......

Lastly, this can be a contentious topic and I apologise to anyone who has been offended by my views. There was no intention what so ever of offending or insulting anyone. These are just my opinions...

Originally posted by: lashforever

<span>

These thoughts came to me while watching the episode yesterday. </span>

<span>Ila was hell-bent on not allowing the
armaan-jassi union to take place, and it was mainly because Jassi was
not of their class......She was able to accept the fact that her
daughter had a marriage life gone all awry. She is able to accept the
fact that her daughter-in-law-to-be has committed some serious crimes
for which technically she could go to prison. But she cannot accept
Jasmeet Walia as her son's bride as she was just a maamooli
secretary<span>.....</span>

</span><span>Now obviously this is a slightly skewed version of
reality</span>

....However, the Indian society is known to have very strict
ideals when it comes to marraige...i.e. that one must get married only
within the chosen/allowed perimeters (caste/sub-caste) of society. In
the long run, generally family ties between couples who have undergone
arranged marriages may seem smoother as it has taken place sorely with
the permission of the adults in the household....Indians also respect
arranged marriages as they feel it is the best way to preserve their
respective cultures. People married within the same class/caste lead
daily lives in a similar fashion, understand each other better even
before getting started, celebrate the same festivals in the same
fashion, follow the same ideals i.e .........overall the number of
compromises made by the bride and groom is far lesser ....
<span>
on the other hand..................</span>

Do you think love is stronger than any family ties?

As society is mordernizing, do you think love marriages between
different classes/religions/castes can exist as harmoniously as people
married within the same class/caste/religion?

If your parents/family were totally against the person you loved as
they were from a different class/religion/caste would you forsake one
for the other and which one?

And lastly in trying to preserve one's race so strictly, do you think asians have become racist?

<span>When you do discuss the pros and cons
of this discussion, please do not mention one off examples and keep the
discussion general......otherwise it may tend to skew the outcome</span>.

thanx.......
<span></span>

Very interesting topic and very complex. And my simple answer is NO. Things like class, clast, religion, race do not matter when it comes to love. To me love is stronger than any ties. more on this later...

i agree with vish, love is stronger and above all things, 😳

I agree with vishaka. Love is stronger than anything. But sadly In India Love is sandwiched between everything else, and at times pitifully yearns for a breath of fresh air. I hope Armaan makes his family understand this and make Jassi his own , very soon.

Excellent subject. Why can't we put it in the debate mansion?

Originally posted by: lashforever

These thoughts came to me while watching the episode yesterday.

Ila was hell-bent on not allowing the armaan-jassi union to take place, and it was mainly because Jassi was not of their class......She was able to accept the fact that her daughter had a marriage life gone all awry. She is able to accept the fact that her daughter-in-law-to-be has committed some serious crimes for which technically she could go to prison. But she cannot accept Jasmeet Walia as her son's bride as she was just a maamooli secretary.....

Now obviously this is a slightly skewed version of reality

....However, the Indian society is known to have very strict ideals when it comes to marraige...i.e. that one must get married only within the chosen/allowed perimeters (caste/sub-caste) of society. In the long run, generally family ties between couples who have undergone arranged marriages may seem smoother as it has taken place sorely with the permission of the adults in the household....Indians also respect arranged marriages as they feel it is the best way to preserve their respective cultures. People married within the same class/caste lead daily lives in a similar fashion, understand each other better even before getting started, celebrate the same festivals in the same fashion, follow the same ideals i.e .........overall the number of compromises made by the bride and groom is far lesser ....

on the other hand..................

Do you think love is stronger than any family ties?

As society is mordernizing, do you think love marriages between different classes/religions/castes can exist as harmoniously as people married within the same class/caste/religion?

If your parents/family were totally against the person you loved as they were from a different class/religion/caste would you forsake one for the other and which one?

And lastly in trying to preserve one's race so strictly, do you think asians have become racist?

When you do discuss the pros and cons of this discussion, please do not mention one off examples and keep the discussion general......otherwise it may tend to skew the outcome.

thanx.......

Let me start with a famous quote.

Happy marriages begin when we marry the ones we love, and they blossom when we love the ones we marry.
- Tom Mullen

Do you think love is stronger than any family ties?

First of all it is not fair to test the strength of love against family ties. They are complementary to each other. A marriage without love is as complicated as a love without the support of family ties. The romantic escapades will be fun when you begin, but when it comes to reality, family support is an integral part of a successful marriage. Similarly, living with a partner whom you don't love and got married just because your family wished you to is the worst nightmare a person can face in this world.(Sorry Alien, I don't know about Titan.)

As society is mordernizing, do you think love marriages between different classes/religions/castes can exist as harmoniously as people married within the same class/caste/religion?
To this question, my answer is yes,it can exist quite harmoniously. To understand this, we will have to analyse the system of arranged marriages in India. In the earlier times, when the girlchilds had no exposure to outer world and they were just kept safely in the four walls of a kitchen, it was quite necessary for the parents to search and find a boy for them because they neither had the opportunity or experience to make an independent decision on the selection of their partners. But in the present scenario, allmost all girls are educated, perhaps more than men, they all are exposed to the hard realities of life, most of them are financially independent,they are familiar with the different cultures coexisting in this world, it is quite possible for them to adjust with cultural differences.

If your parents/family were totally against the person you loved as they were from a different class/religion/caste would you forsake one for the other and which one?

This is to be a personal decision and luckily for me I never had to choose one from the other. It will be quite painful for anybody to forsake either his/her family or lover and the emotional impact will be actually quite damaging. But, accept the facts of life, this does happen in real life so often. Actually, if you take a close look, you can see four types of couples in India.

1. The lucky ones (Thank God) who found their love themselves, got the blessings from their parents ,got married and live happily ever.

2. The parents arranged the marriage, they learned to love their partners and live happily ever.

3. The parents arranged the marriage, couldn't adjust with the partners and suffer eternally.

4. Found your love yourselves and lost your parents for that love and grieve for the pain you caused on your parents.

If I were in that position, I don't know what I will do because it all will depend on the situation.

And lastly in trying to preserve one's race so strictly, do you think asians have become racist?

That is a bit harsh. It is generalising the situations with a few examples of narrowmindedness. Actually, the situation is far better in India now a days. Parents are showing a level of tolerence unprecedented in the near history. Inter cast,inter religion and Inter country marriages are quite common now a days and does not raise much eyebrows as it used to once.

. Love marriages coexists along side the arranged counter part. Neither one is weak enough to be superseded by the other. But there cannot be a good marriage without love and there can be no love without commitment.

To conclude,

The cure for love is marriage, and the cure for marriage is love again
- Unknown

yeah blue and beagle....but you know what we are only debating from the 30% indian point of view (the upper middle class nation)......what about the 70% agricultural/village india.....do you think these discussions hold true for them as well.....now what if armaan, puru, ila came from a different background all together...

Originally posted by: lashforever

yeah blue and beagle....but you know what we are only debating from the 30% indian point of view (the upper middle class nation)......what about the 70% agricultural/village india.....do you think these discussions hold true for them as well.....now what if armaan, puru, ila came from a different background all together...

Absolutely....Exactly what I was thinking on my way home. What about rural india which takes up a larger proportion of the country. This is the part of India that matters most in a way ...I would think that my earlier arguments do not hold true for rural india in general. I guess it would also depend on the literacy rate...( Though Ila being educated makes these distinctions).

Some rural areas in India are more backward than others and it would depend on the region. Over all, the concept of cast and religion will be stronger in rural india, and hence more difficult for people steeped in such concepts to come out of it. I think you would find stronger parental opposition to inter caste and inter religion marriages there. The rate of arranged marriages is probably higher in rural areas, though I would wrong to comment on it.

However, I think that though rural people are extremely proud of their culture and heritage, there is in general an openess towards other cultures. People (in India in general) do not look down upon other cultures. As in rural areas in other countries, you will always have a small minority that does have a superiority complex. By and large, I find people open minded. How far this open mindedness will extend when it comes to their family matters is another thing all together.

Yes Lash, I was also thinking about the rural people of India. It is quite surprising but from my personal experience, the so called educated, cultured and elite families are more conservative than an average Indian Rural family. In my place most of the inter religion and intercast marriages occur in the rural bottomline community. I don't know why but it can be because they are not much bothered about their status in society or what others will think about them. That is the main reason Ila objects Arman's union with Jassi. Such a thing is unacceptable in the society she lives, she can accept three or four divorces of her daughter because all the husband s were rich and came from some highclass families. But Jassi doesn't belong to their type, and that is the only thing against her. Our rural population of India does not give much importance to such misguded pride and prejudices because they are having other things to think about like from where to bring food for the day or how to find money to educate their children etc......

Thank you for starting so interesting discussion Lash👏👏👏

I completely agree with Bluelotus on both her posts(btw can you give me ur beautiful collection of quotes?)

Okay, I 'll restrict myself on Indian scenario only.Don't you think LOVE,MARRIAGE,REBEL,etc are universal emotions & can never be bound by country,religion or anything? In rural India you can see much more passionate lovestories than armaan jassi.Their innocent love starts in colourful surrounding of 'MELA', flourishes in farms & may end in bloodshed (not by parents but jealous lover).

The cocept of marriage is treated as an institution for regulation of society.so our ancesters created a system,some discipline to run it harmoniously.There was certain logic behind it..like GOTRA-TRIBE,which divides all of us as children of seven Rishis..so two ppl from same GOTRA can't get married 'coz they'll be brother-sister..& now it's known that congenial marriages can cause congenital anomolies in the fetus! That's only an example.All the norms they set had a reason behind it.but at the same time childhood-marriages are still prevalent in Rajasthan which don't seem beneficial to society.

But I belive success of marriage is completely dependent on the person & not on the mode of marraige.I've witnessed three generations closely. My grandparents who never met before but lived a content & happy married life inspite of being completely different from each other on the basis of understanding & patience. My parent's generation - 8 out of 10 couple felt life stagnant & routine after 10yrs of marriage but didn't do anything to disturb the system of marriage & our generation who's quite clear & firm about their decisions & parents being comparatively open to them 'coz being adamant & strict just woudn't help.this is generalised change in any part of India today.

Being Racist no I don't agree.The situation which made u write this Lash ie Ila-Armaan..only an exaggeration...No mom & no son is stupid enough to give importance to such things..yeah it's seen in page 3 kind of ppl who care for their social status more ...but their children are comfortable growing in such surrounding, this is class of ppl who is blindly following western values,trying to live in fake world under the falsies of modernization & NOT the ppl in rural India..! who are still rooted to values & belive me these values no way come in way of love marriage.Come on Love & rebel exist since ages...& who can bind them?

What's changing is personal benefit taking over family values or interests..the spirit to 'let go'is vanishing,that's the reason of failure rather than any boundaries of caste or religion eg.Hindu marrying Muslim has to undergo lot of understaning in living together than overcoming parental opposition but still shahrukh -Gauri live happy married life..!so it's all personal & not social.

Choosing Family or love is again personal decision ...to me my happiness can't mean somebody's hurt !