Jesus did not die on cross, says scholar..!!

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Life_Rulezz

@WillSmith456

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Posted: 15 years ago

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7849852/Jesus-did-not-die-on-cross-says-scholar.html

Jesus did not die on cross, says scholar

Jesus may not have died nailed to the cross because there is no evidence that the Romans crucified prisoners two thousand years ago, a scholar has claimed.

Published: 11:47AM BST 23 Jun 2010

A penitent is nailed to a wooden cross to mark the death of Jesus Christ on Good Friday in the town of Pampanga , Philippines Photo: EPA

The legend of his execution is based on the traditions of the Christian church and artistic illustrations rather than antique texts, according to theologian Gunnar Samuelsson.

He claims the Bible has been misinterpreted as there are no explicit references the use of nails or to crucifixion - only that Jesus bore a "staurus" towards Calvary which is not necessarily a cross but can also mean a "pole".

Mr Samuelsson, who has written a 400-page thesis after studying the original texts, said: "The problem is descriptions of crucifixions are remarkably absent in the antique literature.

"The sources where you would expect to find support for the established understanding of the event really don't say anything."

The ancient Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature from Homer to the first century AD describe an arsenal of suspension punishments but none mention "crosses" or "crucifixion."

Mr Samuelsson, of Gothenburg University, said: "Consequently, the contemporary understanding of crucifixion as a punishment is severely challenged.

"And what's even more challenging is the same can be concluded about the accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus. The New Testament doesn't say as much as we'd like to believe."

Any evidence that Jesus was left to die after being nailed to a cross is strikingly sparse - both in the ancient pre-Christian and extra-Biblical literature as well as The Bible.

Mr Samuelsson, a committed Christian himself, admitted his claims are so close to the heart of his faith that it is easy to react emotionally instead of logically.

Mr Samuelsson said the actual execution texts do not describe how Christ was attached to the execution device.

He said: "This is the heart of the problem. The text of the passion narratives is not that exact and information loaded, as we Christians sometimes want it to be."

Mr Samuelsson said: "If you are looking for texts that depict the act of nailing persons to a cross you will not find any beside the Gospels."

A lot of contemporary literature all use the same vague terminology - including the Latin accounts.

Nor does the Latin word crux automatically refer to a cross while patibulum refer to the cross-beam. Both words are used in a wider sense that that.

Mr Samuelsson said: "That a man named Jesus existed in that part of the world and in that time is well-documented. He left a rather good foot-print in the literature of the time.

"I do believe that the mentioned man is the son of God. My suggestion is not that Christians should reject or doubt the biblical text.

"My suggestion is that we should read the text as it is, not as we think it is. We should read on the lines, not between the lines. The text of the Bible is sufficient. We do not need to add anything."

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Ev456😛

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Believe

@-Believe-

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Posted: 15 years ago

I think its true,Jesus was crucified and after three days there was resurrection, bt they don't say what happened after resurrection, where Jesus disappeared, whether he died after resurrection or not.... If he has not died then he must be around somewhere. Bt I think the reality is, after Jesus was taken down frm the cross and he was taken down from the cross only after six hours..... Jewish cross does not kill anybody in six hours.... studies says that it takes fortyeight hours for any healthy man to die on a Jewish cross.... And Jesus was a young man, 33 years old... six hours could not kill him, there is no possibility...If we check history and different books or even in bible...the governor (am not sure about his post)Pontius Pilate was not willing.... cos the man was innocent. Bt politicians are politicians.... They cannot annoy the masses... they depend on the masses..

I think It was a certain arrangement between the disciples of Jesus and Pontius Pilate.....he gave the orders for Jesus' crucifixion bt he made arrangements that the crucifixion shld be on Friday and should be delayed for as long as possible.... So in the afternoon Jesus was crucified....and Friday for jews sabbath.... Saturday they don't work at all...cos of this tradition Pontius Pilate and Jesus disciples took advantage of the situation...if we read the book we know that, that evening...He was kept in a cave which was guarded by a Roman soldier, not by a Jew, and in the night he was taken out from the cave. He was not dead...some books says he escaped from Judea and....lived a long life in India!!

No offence to any believers....cos Jesus knows abt my belief!!😊

Edited by Believe - 15 years ago

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344471

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Posted: 15 years ago

This topic is better suited in the Kaho Jo Kehna Hai thread.

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baz786

@baz786

Sparkler

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Posted: 15 years ago

Jesus wasnt the one who was crucified

just as the crucifixation was abt to take place
God replaced jesus with judas
it was judas that was crucified

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344471

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Posted: 15 years ago

There are different, often conflicting perspectives on this issue. The basic one being the difference between the Islamic perspective and the Christian one. Even amongst Christians, there are many versions of it. Many even feel that Jesus never existed - that it was all a big myth. That's just what happens when we try to decipher history. Since we cannot figure the whole incidence out, we each figure a part of it, and consider that to be the correct one.

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Ajnabee

@*Woh Ajnabee*

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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: baz786
Jesus wasnt the one who was crucified

just as the crucifixation was abt to take place
God replaced jesus with judas
it was judas that was crucified

That is the Islamic perspective, not the Christian one.

What is being debated here is the significance of the cross itself and the actual crucification.

Not who was crucified. :)

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Regarding the topic ...

I don't think the cross holds more of a symbolic meaning for Christians than anything else. Its a constant remind that it was Jesus who died for their sins, and for them to remember and appreciate that. Even if historically, Jesus was crucified on a pole rather than a cross, or even punished with a different method, I don't think it would weaken the symbolic significance of the cross, perhaps its literal meaning, yes, but I don't think that holds as much importance.

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return_to_hades

@return_to_hades

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Posted: 15 years ago

Crucification was a common method of punishment under the Roman Empire. There are records of many people who were crucified. However, the nailing on the cross, appear to be embellishment. Most of the crucification usually involved tying to a cross or pole.

Actually, very few really 'died on the cross'. The Roman soldiers would pull people down at the end of the day. Most would eventually succumb to the injuries and die later, or be executed. Corruption did prevail and soldiers were known to cut deals to sell convicts to slave traders or release them to high bidders. So the resurrection could be explained by this.

When it comes to Biblical accounts especially of the New Testament we have to remember there were literally thousands of 'Gospels' on Jesus Christ. Some by disciples, some by common folk, some by historians of the period. It was during the council of Nicaea that the church decided which accounts would actually be accepted to constitute the Bible. Many contradicting accounts were actually burned and destroyed. A lot of conflicting information was not well known until discoveries like the Dead Sea Scrolls, Gospels of Judas and Mary Magdalene.

That being said historic account is different from faith account. As Ajnu said the cross or the crucification is not as important as what it represents - sacrifice. Its not important how Jesus was punished or he died; what is important is his message of sacrifice.

Think of it as children we hear many things like Aesop's fables, Jataka tales etc that teach us morals. Many are untrue, fantastical tales involving talking animals etc - but the values they teach are universal.

Ultimately, it is human faith that makes religion and religious significance. Historians look for facts. Believers look for the meaning of events.

Anyway, perhaps its the ingraining of karma within me - but the thought of someone dying for my sins actually sickens me. Especially, when I saw it being displayed with all the agony and gore in Passion of the Christ. If that is the case, I would rather burn in hell for eternity - than have any entity human or divine suffer that sort of punishment for me. I cannot accept that.