France split over plan to outlaw burqa

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Posted: 16 years ago
#1

France split over plan to outlaw burqa

Racial unrest feared over new law, which goes further than ban on headscarves

By John Lichfield in Paris

Saturday, 20 June 2009



A suggestion that the full-length veil, or burqa, might be outlawed in France split the French government down the middle yesterday.

The government's official spokesman, Luc Chatel, said that legislation might be introduced to ban full-length veils if it was proved that they were being "imposed" on Muslim women against their will.

However, the Immigration Minister, Eric Besson, said legal action would "create unnecessary and unwelcome tensions" and re-open the anguished dispute which surrounded the decision in 2004 to ban Islamic headscarves, and other religious symbols, from state schools in France.

President Nicolas Sarkozy, speaking after the EU summit in Brussels, said he would address the subject in public on Monday but warned against surrendering to "emotional" arguments.

Just like the headscarf debate, a dispute over the wearing of the full-length veil has scrambled the normal political boundaries between right and left and has divided France's 4 to 5 million-strong Muslim community. The debate was re-opened by, of all people, President Barack Obama, who said in his speech in Cairo last week that Western nations should not impede the practice of Islam within their frontiers.

This comment was endorsed by M. Sarkozy but criticised by some French politicians, of both right and left, as an attack on France's "headscarf law". Andr Gerin, a Communist MP who represents a poor, multiracial area in the suburbs of Lyons, tabled a motion this week calling for a commission of inquiry into what he said was an explosion in the number of women wearing full-length veils in France. He said that this was a "direct response" to President Obama's remarks.

At first, M. Gerin's proposal seemed likely to go nowhere but his action was praised on Thursday by Fadela Amara, a left-wing crusader for Muslim women's rights who joined the centre-right French government in 2007. Ms Amara, Minister for Urban Renewal, said she was "in favour of the total prohibition in France of the burqa ... this coffin which kills the fundamental rights of women."

She added: "You only have to go to certain markets, such as in the suburbs of Lyons, to see that there are more and more women wearing the burqa ... These are women who are the prey of oppression, from masculine domination to fundamentalistic Islamic indoctrination."

In a radio interview yesterday, M. Chatel said he supported the idea of an official inquiry. "If it emerged that the wearing of the burqa was imposed [on women], and therefore contrary to our Republican principles, parliament would naturally have to draw the appropriate conclusions."

Asked if this might mean a law, he said: "Why not?"

Such a law might be even more controversial than the head-scarf legislation of 2004. That law applied only to children and teachers in state schools and employees in public buildings. It banned not just head scarves but Catholic crucifixes and Jewish kippas. The suggested new law would ban the wearing of the full-length veil anywhere in public.

M. Besson, another left-wing politician who was persuaded by President Sarkozy to join his government, said a legal ban would be "ineffective" and counter-productive, stirring up racial and religious tensions and reinforcing a sense of persecution among some Muslim communities.


Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-split-over-plan-to-outlaw-burqa-1710747.html


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344471 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#2
This is outrageous!

I too do not like the concept of burqa, mostly because I feel it degrades the status of women, but what a women does with her body, how she dresses, and how she wants to live her life is none of my business!

What about the women who views the burqa not as a religious thing, but as a social or cultural one? What about the women who wears a burqa with her own will, and not on anyone else's? What about the women who loves wearing a burqa, feels comfortable and is happy with it?

I know and can understand it if women are being forced to wear burqa without their will - France have every right to ban those religious groups from enforcing their religious agenda onto a woman against her will, and I'm fully with France on this - but what about those who are wearing it without anyone's force or oppression, and simply because she feels comfortable with it and a need for it? Would it be justified for all the Islamic countries to force women to wear burqa? I know many Islamic countries that follows Sharia'h law already does it - but personally, I am completely against that. It is totally upto every human being what he/she wants to do with his life - if a woman is happy wearing a burqa, then that's her prerogative, and she has a complete right over that, just as if a woman wants to wear mini skirt, then that's her prerogative, too, and have a complete right over that. No one should have any say over how someone else wants to live his/her life. Whether a person wants to wear burqa, mini skirt, sari, shirt pant...whether a person wants to drink, go to bar, get married with someone of his own sex, commit polygamy, polyamory, polyandry etc etc it is totally upto the person. And no one should have the right to judge them and say otherwise.

How is France supporting secularism when the only reason for them being against women wearing burqa is based on religious bias? How is France fighting for women's right, when they are even denying those women (who wants to and feels comfortable with wearing burqa) their basic rights? How can someone be fighting for freedom and equality when they are snatching a basic right from a fellow human being?
3365 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#3
see even i strongly oppose wearing of burqas' it really infuriates me seeing women wearing burqas. and i dont think any of them would willingly want to wear them given a choice free of religion,culture,caste creed. if she is released from all these restrictions i dont think any women would like to wear a burqa.
so i support french govt. and i think this law along with many more laws should be passed.
and y not if in countries like saudi people cannot follow their religious beliefs then even french govt has the right to pass this law.y hould there be any unrest? and it will be for the well being of the women. 😕
Kal El thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#4
I am all for banning the face-veil. The rest should be left to individual choice.
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Posted: 16 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: Kal El

I am all for banning the face-veil. The rest should be left to individual choice.



yes indivudual will in real sense. not like emotional blackmailing or cultural pressure and from family. and u know what its very difficult for women to get actually free will to do express themselves.
infact i think burqa is a way of not letting them express themselves.
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Posted: 16 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: sandya_rao7

see even i strongly oppose wearing of burqas' it really infuriates me seeing women wearing burqas. and i dont think any of them would willingly want to wear them given a choice free of religion,culture,caste creed. if she is released from all these restrictions i dont think any women would like to wear a burqa.
so i support french govt. and i think this law along with many more laws should be passed.
and y not if in countries like saudi people cannot follow their religious beliefs then even french govt has the right to pass this law.y hould there be any unrest? and it will be for the well being of the women. 😕



Two wrongs doesn't make one right - If countries like Saudi Arab and Iran are forcing women to wear burqa, then they are definitely doing wrong; that, however, isn't justifying France illegalizing it. France is wrong, just as Saudi Arab, Iran and countries like that. As I stated in my OP, whether a woman wants to wear a mini skirt or a burqa is her choice - and hers alone. No one should have a say at it whatsoever.

And how exactly do you know that no one would willingly wear a burqa? I know most are forced into it - let me repeat that again - most are indeed forced to it, and I am with France on banning that. But what about those who are wearing it at their own will? Why should anyone else have a say on how one wants to live his/her life? There are plenty of women who wears burqa at her own will - and forcing them to not wear it is a sort of oppression - just as forcing someone to wear it (like Saudi Arab does) is a oppression. How can one be in favor of France's law of outlawing burqa but not of Saudi Arab's on outlawing not wearing burqa? (I am against both). What sort of hypocrisy is that? How can a person be fighting for women's right if the person is even snatching the only thing some women feels comfortable wearing?

Mind it, I too do not like the concept of burqa (reason I have stated before), but if someone wears it at her own will, I have no right to stop her from it, just as if a woman likes to wear short skirt, or even lesser, I have no right to stop her from that. What one wants to do with his/her life is her personal matter, and no one else's.

Well being...? Would it be a 'well being' for Indian women if they are all forced to wear pant shirts instead of Saris - something the majority of Indians are not in the least comfortable with? Should not what is 'well being' for another individual left to that individual alone? Who are we to judge someone's way of living, and say what is 'well being' for some, and what isn't? The individual should know what is 'well-being' for her, more than the outsiders.
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 16 years ago
344471 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: sandya_rao7



yes indivudual will in real sense. not like emotional blackmailing or cultural pressure and from family. and u know what its very difficult for women to get actually free will to do express themselves.
infact i think burqa is a way of not letting them express themselves.



Nonsense. On many occasion it might be; but that doesn't mean in all occasion it is. Just because 'some' are emotionally blackmailed, or pressured into wearing it, not is all. As I stated in my OP, there are many who chooses to take that step with her own will. How is that being an oppression if it is done with her own will, and not from anyone else's? I know many women, who comes from almost non-religious families and yet starts wearing burqa - why do they do it then? They are not forced by anyone else, or by any religious reason. Many even sees burqa as a normal dress as many sees sari to be one.

It is a worse oppression to force someone from wearing a burqa, who yearns to wear it. Whether the burqa is a mean to 'not letting them express themselves' should be left to the individual itself. The individual knows and understands oneself better than anyone else can.
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 16 years ago
Kal El thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades



Nonsense. On many occasion it might be; but that doesn't mean in all occasion it is. As I stated in my OP, there are many who chooses to take that step with her own will. How is that being an opression if it is done with her own will? 😕 I know many women, who comes from almost non religious families and yet starts wearing burqa - why do they do it then? They are not forced by anyone else, or by any religious reason. Many even sees burqa as a normal dress as many sees sari to be one.

It is a worse opression to force someone not wearing a burqa, to who wants to wear it.



What about the face-veil? Do you think it should be allowed as well?
Kal El thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: PhoeniXof_Hades


I know most are forced into it - let me repeat that again - most are indeed forced to it,



Well then it's settled. Rule by majority: you say that majority of burqa wearers are oppressed. It follows that the will of this majority is that the burqa is a sign of oppression and should be removed. Therefore, by rule of majority, burqa is banned. End of story. 😆
Edited by Kal El - 16 years ago
344471 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#10

Originally posted by: Kal El

What about the face-veil? Do you think it should be allowed as well?



No...not as long as the woman is willingly consenting in wearing it. It's her life, and how she would like to ride her vehicle is her choice, and hers alone. Again, I repeat, who are we to judge?

Remember, I stated it several times here that I too do not like the concept of covering your whole face since it hides your identity and personally I find it degrading towards women - but I also believe that what a consenting adult is doing (as long as it isn't causing any harm) is none of my business either. As long as no-one is harmed, the person have every right to exercise her will - and no-one, NO-ONE should have the right to judge and say otherwise.
Edited by PhoeniXof_Hades - 16 years ago

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