France split over plan to outlaw burqa - Page 30

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344471 thumbnail
Posted: 15 years ago
Maybe some of you here should realize that one can always wear a burkha without wearing the face-veil. Without gaining a proper knowledge and insight into others culture, one should not try to instil their beliefs into them.
...and nope, it's not only "religious" people who are against banning burkhas - people who respects others rights and choices are against it too, religious or not. But meh, I have repeated these things a trillion times from the beginning of this thread, so I am not going for another round.
Anyone wishing to indulge into this discussion shouls go through every pages, every posts, every statements, every words, every alphabets before jumping into it - on that way, it will save a a lot of time for many of us in repeating ourselves; it will, also, help many of our new friends in gaianing a deeper knowledge on this subject.
Best of luck.
chal_phek_mat thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: Summer3

Burqa should be a personal choice but those people who want others to wear a burqa should themselves wear one too. In some traditional societies I guess it is part of the culture so there is nothing much an outsider can say.

Conclusion: Let the individuals decide for themselves.

It is a personal choice till someone misuses it to the detriment of the general public, then the govt should step in and regulate that personal choice. That is exactly what France is doing
souro thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
Does Islam strictly mandate women to cover herself from head to toe?? Or is it just an option which women can follow if they want??
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: chal_phek_mat

It is a personal choice till someone misuses it to the detriment of the general public, then the govt should step in and regulate that personal choice. That is exactly what France is doing

Well in exercising one's personal rights, one should not offend others and as such follow the local laws of the country. If one feels that the local laws should be changed then proper procedures should be followed.
Summer3 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

Originally posted by: Believe

Ok...Good, but the problem is Personal freedom,or individual rights, If the soceity and religion works against this what you will do!😉😃

Here personal freedom and individual rights must be carried out within the boundaries of the law in the country. As to restrictions by the religion one should follow their dictates of the religious institutions if one wants to continue to be a member of the religious body.
(Personally I would comply with the religious order while in the religious premises only.)
karandel_2008 thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago

My replies are in blue. I do not disagree with you, but will add just more points:

First regarding some background on the issue in France.

Head scarves: France only banned them in state owned places like govt schools. People are free to wear it in other public places and also in private owned schools (correct me if I am worng).

In fact they did not mention head scarf they said they want to ban all "big" religious symbols. They say that they are against ostentatious display of religion in public places, like govt. schools that are in fact funded by the state. It leads to proselytizing especially for small children who are supposed to learn in a neutral environment. Moreover, it creates a peer pressure on others who do not wear it and might feel pressurised to start wearing it.

They said that they dont have any problems with small symbols that are not visible.


Face Veil: They are pondering to ban it "everywhere in public", but you already said some points about why face veil could be undesirable.

Politics and culture: I think one problem is also that they are "over protectionist" about their culture given that immigration is rising in their country. They tend to curb anything non-french, (nobody speaks english there, to give you an example, sometimes not even in airports. lol! :p)
.

They think that anything non-french can grow slowly and change their culture over long term.


Edited by karandel_2008 - 15 years ago
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 15 years ago
A new news update on the issue

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100126/lf_afp/francepoliticsreligionislamwomenrights

PARIS (AFP) – A French parliament report called Tuesday for a ban on the full Islamic veil, saying Muslim women who wear the burqa were posing an "unacceptable" challenge to French values.

After six months of hearings, a panel of 32 lawmakers recommended a ban on the face-covering veil in all schools, hospitals, public transport and government offices, the broadest move yet to restrict Muslim dress in France.

"The wearing of the full veil is a challenge to our republic. This is unacceptable," the report said. "We must condemn this excess."

The commission however stopped short of proposing broad legislation to outlaw the burqa in the streets, in shopping centres and other public venues after raising doubts about the constitutionality of such a move.

"The wearing of the full veil is the tip of the iceberg," said communist lawmaker Andre Gerin, the chair of the commission, who presented the report to the parliament speaker.

"There are scandalous practices hidden behind this veil," said Gerin who vowed to fight the "gurus" he said were seeking to export a radical brand of fundamentalism and sectarianism to France.

Tensions flared at the last minute when a group of right-wing lawmakers pushed unsuccessfully for a tougher measure to ban the burqa in all public venues.

In the end, the commission called on parliament to adopt a resolution stating that the all-encompassing veil was "contrary to the values of the republic" and proclaiming that "all of France is saying 'no' to the full veil".

The National Assembly resolution would pave the way to legislation making it illegal for anyone to appear with their face covered at state-run institutions and in public transport, for reasons of security.

Women who turn up at the post office or any government building wearing the full veil would be denied services such as a work visa, residency papers or French citizenship, the report said.

The opposition Socialists refused to endorse the final report, to protest the government's launching of a debate on national identity, which has exposed French fears about Islam.

Critics of the "burqa debate" have warned that it risks stigmatising France's six million Muslims and describe the wearing of the garment as a marginal phenomenon affecting few women.

But President Nicolas Sarkozy sought Tuesday to reassure France's estimated six million Muslims, saying in a speech at a cemetery for French Muslim soldiers that freedom to practise religion was enshrined in the constitution.

"Our country, which has known not only wars of religion but also fratricidal battles due to state anti-clericalism, cannot let French Muslim citizens be stigmatised," he said at Notre Dame de Lorette cemetery in northern France.

Despite a large Muslim presence, the sight of fully-veiled women is not common in France. Only 1,900 women wear the burqa, according to the interior ministry.

Half of them live in the Paris region and 90 percent are under 40.

Home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority, France is being closely watched at a time of particular unease over Islam, three months after Swiss voters approved a ban on minarets.

Sarkozy set the tone for the debate in June when he declared the burqa "not welcome" in France and described it as a symbol of women's "subservience" that cannot be tolerated in a country that considers itself a human rights leader.

French support for a law banning the full veil is strong: a poll last week showed 57 percent are in favour.

The leader of Sarkozy's right-wing party in parliament, Jean-Francois Cope, has already presented draft legislation that would make it illegal for anyone to cover their faces in public.

The bill is not expected to come up for debate before regional elections in March.

In 2004, France passed a law banning headscarves and any other "conspicuous" religious symbols in state schools after a long-running debate on how far it was willing to go to accommodate Islam in its strictly secular society.

Denmark, the Netherlands and Austria are also studying measures to ban the full veil.


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