story of sita who suffered the most - Page 9

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Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#81

Originally posted by: godisone

We can't completely abandon Tulsidas's Ramayan as false when it comes to sources, because there's a lot of truth in it too.



I don't mean to disrespect those who believe Tulsidas' version, let alone hurt their sentiments (and am saddened that some took it that way), but I look at Ramayan as not only religious, but also a historical text. Tulsidas lived in the 16th century when he wrote RCM, whereas Valmiki lived in the treta yuga and was a contemporary of Rama. So while I do tend to look at certain accounts of Valmiki, such as Rama ruling for 10000 years as more of a metaphorical rather than a chronologically exact statement, I do think there is a historical preference that Valmiki deserves on that basis.

Originally posted by: godisone


Of course, he may have made some mistakes here and there with the story line, because no director is perfect, but out of all the directors who made a Luv Kush serial/movie, I'd trust him first, because he conducted a lot of research and put so much effort into his script before taking the Ramayan and Luv Kush. If Dr. Ramanand Sagar chose more stories from Tulsidas Ramayan over Valmiki Ramayan, there's nothing wrong with that, because Tulsidas Ramayan is still Ramayan.



The basis for accepting Tulsidas' account would be a belief that Hanuman actually came and narrated that story to him, but even then, imho, it begs a question of why it was different from Valmiki, and an explanation of those discrepancies. Therefore, while you are right that both are still Ramayans, there are (at times major) differences between them, which would bring up more questions than answers if both were given equal weight.

Okay, first my disclaimer - what I'm about to write is not a condemnation of Sagar, but an observation of how he blended the 2 Ramayans, and how the composite compared to the actual accounts in either case. So an aside to others - please don't be offended by what follows.

Here is an example. In Valmiki, Shatrughan is sent to conquer Madhupura shortly after the exile of Sita, and is present at their naming ceremony. After he kills Lavanasura, he becomes the ruler of that place, and 12 years later, returns to Ayodhya to participate in the Ashwamedha yagna. In that yagna, Rama sends Lakshman out with the horse, and that whole expedition goes off without incident.

In Tulsidas Lav-Kush kanda, no such thing happens. Instead, when Rama is ready to do the Ashwamedha yagna, he sends Shatrughan (not Lakshman) along with his sons Subahu and ______ (he uses a different name than Shatrughatee), and the conquest of Madhupura and the tour of the horse are combined. In that battle, Shatrughan and his sons battle Lavanasura and his sons and kill them, and following that, Subahu and his brother are crowned rulers of Mathura and Vidisha, and after crowning them, Shatrughan continued in his journey during which the horse got captured by Luv. In other words, in Tulsidas, Shatrughan never became king.

Now, both these accounts, though inconsistent, are fine. But looking at the way Sagar combined them, he follows Valmiki for the first part - Shatrughan killing Lavanasura at the beginning of the war, but then, for the Ashwamedha yagna part of it, he uses Tulsidas' account. As a result, Rama asks Shatrughan - an independent ruler - to lead his army, instead of either Lakshman or Bharat, who are still in his service. Neither Valmiki nor Tulsidas had this oddity - the former had Lakshman doing the job, while the latter had Shatrughan doing it, but without making him a ruler. But Sagar ended up with it as a result of the way in which he picked and combined the 2 versions. From what I know, when rulers performed Ashwamedha yagnas, they'd send one of their own subjects, usually a brother or son, to accompany the horse, but not another ruler. Once Shatrughan became a king, it wouldn't have been protocol for Rama to give such a job to him.

Note that this is an observation that's only valid for Luv-Kush - in the main Ramayan, Sagar seems to follow Tulsidas across the board, and there are no such issues. It'll be interesting to see how the current serial - if it includes the Uttarkand or the Luv-Kush kand, would handle this.
Edited by Chandraketu - 17 years ago
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Posted: 17 years ago
#82

Your observation seems valid, but I don't think it was Ramanand Sagar who joined the stories of Valmiki and Tulsidas. Rather, I think he followed the story of someone else, because this is the story of Luv Kush that I learned growing up from my parents (who did not see Ramanand Sagar's Ramayan by the way).

Shortly after Sitaji's exile, Shatrughan is sent on a mission to kill Lavanasur, and on the way to Mathura, he stops at Sage Valmiki's Ashram to pay his respects to him. That night, Luv and Kush are born, and Shatrughan blesses them in their naming ceremony, without knowing who they are. Then he goes, kills Lavanasur, and becomes king of Mathura. 12 years later, when Ram decides to perform the Ashvamedha Yagna, Shatrughan comes from Mathura along with his two young sons and wife Shrutakirti.
Shatrughan is sent first with the horse, because he is the youngest brother although he is king. In Valmiki's Ashram, Kush is sent to look for exotic flowers for his mother's yagna, while Luv is entrusted with the duty of looking after the ashram in Valmikiji's absense. When the Ashvamedh horse comes to the ashram, Luv reads the message on its head and takes it as a challenge and figths with Shatrughan. At first, Shatrughan easily defeats him and is about to take him hostage when Kush arrives on the scene and defeats Shatrughan, saving his brother. Then Lakshman is sent to defeat the two sage kids, but he too is defeated. After that, Shri Ram himself went to fight with them. After Valmikiji intervenes and Shri Ram leaves, Luv Kush go to Ayodhya and sing Ramayan.
In the version I learned, Sitaji never went to Ayodhya. She called upon mother earth in Valmikiji's ashram in front of Shri Ram, Valmikiji, Luv, and Kush.
This is the version I heard, and it seems like Ramanand Sagar used this version too (except with a few changes).
akhl thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#83

Tulsidas's Ramacharitmanas matches much more with Adhyatm Ramayan than with Valmiki Ramayan.

Adhyatm Ramayan is a part of Brahmand Puran.
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#84

Originally posted by: akhl

Tulsidas's Ramacharitmanas matches much more with Adhyatm Ramayan than with Valmiki Ramayan.

Adhyatm Ramayan is a part of Brahmand Puran.

Yes, you're right!😃 I have Adhyatma Ramayana book at home, and it supports the theory of Chaya Sita.😊
Vr15h thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#85

Originally posted by: akhl

Tulsidas's Ramacharitmanas matches much more with Adhyatm Ramayan than with Valmiki Ramayan.

Adhyatm Ramayan is a part of Brahmand Puran.



Akhl

Thanks for this info. This is the first time I'm hearing about Adhyatm Ramayan - what was it, and any idea which era it was written? That would certainly be indicative of the historical authenticity of Ramacharitmanas.

Here's an interesting summary of some of the differences between the Ramayan and Ramacharitmanas

http://www.geocities.com/bhagvatjee/vraamaayan/notes/1difference.htm


In addition to the differences in the above link, in Tulsidas, there is no mention about Luv-Kush singing the Ramayan in Rama's court, whereas in Valmiki, that was the central significance of their role in the epic.
jathorsan thumbnail
Posted: 17 years ago
#86
i don't think that sita suffered the most i think it was urmila because urmila spent 14 yrs away from her husband and after few yrs ram became king laxman dies first out of 4 princes
that urmila becomes the first widow out of all 4 mithila princeses
there is a huge a story on this
on dardoorshan ramayan they how laxman dies
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#87

Originally posted by: jathorsan

i don't think that sita suffered the most i think it was urmila because urmila spent 14 yrs away from her husband and after few yrs ram became king laxman dies first out of 4 princes

that urmila becomes the first widow out of all 4 mithila princeses
there is a huge a story on this
on dardoorshan ramayan they how laxman dies

Lakshman did not die right after Ram became King. Sitaji was exiled for 12 years before she went to Prithvi Devi, and after that, Ramji ruled for a 10,000 years before Lord Yama came to see him. And Urmila was a Sumangali. She died before Lakshman. All of the Mithila Princesses were Sumangalis. It was a boon granted to them (I don't know by whom).
coolpurvi thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#88
We cant measure the sufferings of different charaters of Ramayan with matematical precisions. We cant even measure their greatness
To me Ramayan is the most emotional n soul touching story with so many heros n heriones of different nature
RamKiSeeta thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#89

Originally posted by: coolpurvi

We cant measure the sufferings of different charaters of Ramayan with matematical precisions. We cant even measure their greatness

To me Ramayan is the most emotional n soul touching story with so many heros n heriones of different nature

You are completely right. Ramayan and Mahabharat are the most emotional touching stories of our culture. I really love them both soooooooooo much, and I'm soooo proud to be a Hindu.😃

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