KGF actor Anant Nag slams Besharam Rang - Page 2

Originally posted by: Maroonporsche

I love navals 😂 

Even the bloated ones with extreme close ups like in some South Indian movies?

So it was the British who made sex taboo in India?

What was it like during hundreds of years Sultanate before the British rule?  During Mughals, Nizam etc...

Originally posted by: BettyA1

So it was the British who made sex taboo in India?

What was it like during hundreds of years Sultanate before the British rule?  During Mughals, Nizam etc...

All Abrahamic religions treat sex as taboo vs Eastern and indigenous religions that tend to be sex-positive. And yes, Islamic empires did tend to impose puritanical laws and did contribute to changing mindsets. 

However, from an art history perspective, erotic art and culture did thrive even in the Caliphates, Emirates, and Sultanates. You can find a lot of queer and erotic Islamic art. Many Islamic rules also openly kept harems of women and castrated men for sexual pleasure. 

The decline of sociocultural sexuality can directly be traced to western European colonization. European colonization was very intertwined with inquisitions or missionaries. In addition to spice trade and other treasures - they were very interested in taming folks they deemed as savages. And later the British Empire very intentionally and systematically implemented laws from the Church of England in India and across the globe. And the Empire was able to rule over lands more consistently with more stability, influence, and power, than the Sultanates and Mughal empire before it. 

So yeah, even though Islamic rule also tended to treat sex as taboo - it was British colonization that made sex taboo in India and kept it that way long enough for people forgot about how things once were and adapt to British beliefs and perceptions. 

Who died and made these namunas the paragons of indian culture? Everyday some never-heard-before mahapurush comes along spouting what Indian culture does or does not deem suitable painting their own opinions under the disguise of culture. Where were these noble men when murder, hate story blah blah movies had come out. Real sick of this nonsense. 

Originally posted by: Maroonporsche

I love navals 😂 

I see you're into sea men. 

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

All Abrahamic religions treat sex as taboo vs Eastern and indigenous religions that tend to be sex-positive. And yes, Islamic empires did tend to impose puritanical laws and did contribute to changing mindsets. 

However, from an art history perspective, erotic art and culture did thrive even in the Caliphates, Emirates, and Sultanates. You can find a lot of queer and erotic Islamic art. Many Islamic rules also openly kept harems of women and castrated men for sexual pleasure. 

The decline of sociocultural sexuality can directly be traced to western European colonization. European colonization was very intertwined with inquisitions or missionaries. In addition to spice trade and other treasures - they were very interested in taming folks they deemed as savages. And later the British Empire very intentionally and systematically implemented laws from the Church of England in India and across the globe. And the Empire was able to rule over lands more consistently with more stability, influence, and power, than the Sultanates and Mughal empire before it. 

So yeah, even though Islamic rule also tended to treat sex as taboo - it was British colonization that made sex taboo in India and kept it that way long enough for people forgot about how things once were and adapt to British beliefs and perceptions. 

Not completely accurate. There's enough in Indian scriptures to show women were kept on a tight leash. Yes, courtesans existed, and they were treated well under certain kings, but the larger picture is not sex positive in India either. 

Mahabharata has Bheeshma saying adulterous women should be eaten by dogs.

Draupadi magically regaining virginity after each Pandava was not sex positive.

Shikhandi was trashed by the same Bheeshma and robbed of his right to the throne. 

Madhavi being a womb for hire for various kings while regaining virginity in between was also not sex positive.

Shakunthala got into trouble for premarital sex.

Ahalya got into trouble for sex with Indra.

Examples abound of women being *fooled* by imposters taking the form of husbands. There is a rishi's wife who supposedly hid her pregnancy in her thigh for 7 years after her husband's demise and then delivered her son.

The same Abrahamic religions derided here also have the Songs of Solomon.

Yes, successive foreign rulers made Indian society more orthodox, but a good chunk of it already existed. 

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Not completely accurate. There's enough in Indian scriptures to show women were kept on a tight leash. Yes, courtesans existed, and they were treated well under certain kings, but the larger picture is not sex positive in India either. 

Mahabharata has Bheeshma saying adulterous women should be eaten by dogs.

Draupadi magically regaining virginity after each Pandava was not sex positive.

Shikhandi was trashed by the same Bheeshma and robbed of his right to the throne. 

Madhavi being a womb for hire for various kings while regaining virginity in between was also not sex positive.

Shakunthala got into trouble for premarital sex.

Ahalya got into trouble for sex with Indra.

Examples abound of women being *fooled* by imposters taking the form of husbands. There is a rishi's wife who supposedly hid her pregnancy in her thigh for 7 years after her husband's demise and then delivered her son.

The same Abrahamic religions derided here also have the Songs of Solomon.

Yes, successive foreign rulers made Indian society more orthodox, but a good chunk of it already existed. 

All your examples are true. But aren't they examples of - misogyny and gender bias baked into society and religion? Even in western society, which is considered more sexually open and unorthodox, women are still s|ut shamed and get treated to different standards.  

Perhaps, we can safely say that - while Indian culture was very sexually open and there are many examples of erotica - there have always been double standards. 

With that lens, perhaps stalwarts of culture are right in saying "besharam rang is inappropriate." Because in history it would be perfectly fine for courtesans, concubines, or low-born women to be sexualized - but for a high-society woman to be sexualized would be blasphemy. And in that case culture itself needs dismantling. 

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

All your examples are true. But aren't they examples of - misogyny and gender bias baked into society and religion? Even in western society, which is considered more sexually open and unorthodox, women are still s|ut shamed and get treated to different standards.  

Perhaps, we can safely say that - while Indian culture was very sexually open and there are many examples of erotica - there have always been double standards. 

With that lens, perhaps stalwarts of culture are right in saying "besharam rang is inappropriate." Because in history it would be perfectly fine for courtesans, concubines, or low-born women to be sexualized - but for a high-society woman to be sexualized would be blasphemy. And in that case culture itself needs dismantling. 

Western society was not any better where sex was concerned. I'm just saying there is an inherent tendency in any religion to regard women as second class. With that comes the idea that sex is meant for the pleasure of men. 

So while art and architecture celebrate sex, the positivity was kept to the male perspective, and the female partner providing pleasure, ie the lover/courtsean, was confined to the less respectable part of society. 

The regaining virginity aspect of the liberated women in the higher classes was related to this thought process. Panchali was even said to have done her duty of providing each husband with a son, abstaining from sex afterward. The 7-year-pregnancy was clearly a case of not wanting the widow to have a life which would include enjoying sex. 

The difference I see in Christianity and Islam is the hypocrisy. Indian scriptures admitted sex and pleasure were reserved for men. Muslims and Christian men pretended they never did the deed. The story of Mary Magdalene is example of this hypocrisy. The men wanted to stone her, and Jesus asked those who never *sinned* to throw the 1st stone. Needless to say, there were no stones thrown. 

ur comment is so disgusting like ur mindset

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

All your examples are true. But aren't they examples of - misogyny and gender bias baked into society and religion? Even in western society, which is considered more sexually open and unorthodox, women are still s|ut shamed and get treated to different standards.  

Perhaps, we can safely say that - while Indian culture was very sexually open and there are many examples of erotica - there have always been double standards. 

With that lens, perhaps stalwarts of culture are right in saying "besharam rang is inappropriate." Because in history it would be perfectly fine for courtesans, concubines, or low-born women to be sexualized - but for a high-society woman to be sexualized would be blasphemy. And in that case culture itself needs dismantling.