Beauty Norms, Genetic Benevolence & Marriage-Shivi

In this era of botoxed beauties and gym bodies, where we mostly see a transition, I thought it would be interesting to open this topic and see what everyone has to say about beauty, genetic superiority and marriage from the perspective of traditional norms of the society.

Needless to say that every culture, geographical region and race has different set norms of beauty and attractiveness.

Indeed, it’s fascinating to see how on the one hand, we see mushrooming of influencers who set unrealistic standards of beauty and are paving the way to mental issues leading to insanity when one is not able to fit into those norms.

On the other hand, there are talks about inclusivity, diversity, embracing your bodies, and cancel culture for indulging in fat shaming, skinny shaming, misogyny and whatnot.

Societal pressure to conform to gender and beauty norms have been prevalent from times immemorial. The white supremacy, oriental dollface, Chinese foot binding, lip hooping, giraffe neck females in certain tribes, female genital mutilation or even force-feeding in certain cultures for the curvy physique are all representations of pressure to abide by cruel beauty norms.

My discourse starts from Shivi, of course, the trigger point being Surat & Seerat

Raavi, being only flattered for her Beauty, eyes and smile!

It is intriguing to note that how the so-called dear friends of Ravi only remember her for her superficial attributes, which includes her smile, beauty, and her brown eyes. If you go back to the conversation of Sneha, too, it only revolved around how stylish Ravi is. Isn’t it the reflection of society as a whole that considers specific genetic benevolence that fits the beauty norms of a particular society as benchmarks for being layak?

I am just wondering that nobody ever really compared Ravi’s kindness to Shiva’s anger? It brings me to the moot point - Surat Vs Seerat.

When you have a society obsessed with superficial appearances, it’s hard not to fall into the vicious net and keep expectations around that. I don’t blame Ravi at all. I think she belongs to a genre of people for whom appearances do matter. She never really had the ambition, to begin with, apart from getting married to her prince charming and live in her fairytale world. Who could blame her? The people around her shaped what she is as an individual. Her only benchmark was Dhara, who seemed to handle household and the store with fierce loyalty.

There are many people like Ravi who only focus on aesthetic attraction, which is further fuelled by pop culture and societal norms around us.

Her talks always revolved around Dev being: ‘kis level ka handsome.’

If someone said that Shiva is not worthy enough of Ravi because she is kind, compassionate and full of life while he is simmering only in anger, it would have made more sense. By comparing his looks to Ravi, it becomes very superficial. Can we highlight Ravi’s accomplishment to be called superior based on a particular genetic trait of fair skin, pretty eyes?

Shiva is being called Handsome Now! (copy pasting what I wrote in the EDT)

Think of a significant difference which Shiva and the other gentlemanly creatures that are being brought out are so interesting.

They say clothes exemplify a man-a notion that started with the class difference from the Renaissance era.

If we go back to the sequence of evolution, the idea of Shiva belongs to a genre of strong 💪 men who'd knock your brains while mating and protect you from danger-a trait to look for during the unsettled caveman days.

These men would ensure safety for their women and bring home ‘meat in exchange for mating’ while investing in paternal investment.

However, as humans started making settlements and community living began, the emphasis was still on farm men, sons of the soil. The latter would do immense manual labour to ensure safety, food and security for women as well as rock in sexual prowess.

The things changed with capitalism, industrialisation where white collared jobs were equated with respect, not having to toil in the fields. Women started looking for men who had wealth, good clothes instead of physical prowess. Slowly brains, education and class were seen as necessary as survival, security and pleasure were seen as important. Rightfully so as the world has changed a lot.

Shiva belongs to that category of men who would be a part of secret fantasy of girls like Raavi like a typical Mills & Boons farm boy-Madame lady trope

But, in reality, in issues like marriage, a women would CHOOSE the likes of the gentlemanly creatures who define Raavi’s dream boy.

Her attraction towards Shiva is reflective of this species behaviour so distinctively!

Shiva’s insecurities and self doubt!
I think a lot has been said about it. From the perspective of Shiva, he has always been perfectly comfortable in his skin despite being a subject of mockery and ridicule. Ravi did affect him in a particularly strange way right from the childhood, and once he has fallen in love, the insecurity angst and self-deprecation has started to simmer in him. I know how much it pains to be the only dark horse as compared to the picture perfect postcard of Brothers brothers who seem to be beautiful & gentleman like as per the norms of the society.
They say a man-woman relationship is the closest of all! Imagine when the only one relationship which you thought could be about acceptance detests our very own physical identity? Shiva is hurt and how!


Some caps which I really loved from yesterday's episode:

These are so beautiful, and I could feel Shiva’s pain points.

This just broke my heart! He looked at his shirt while Raavi was busy looking at the jacket of Rahul.

We have all seen how As most of the menial jobs of the store. It must be really difficult to keep it clean.
Show many question that why aren’t the other brothers so shabbily groomed. Because, according to the show, they are born fair skinned and good-looking while Shiva is told to be the son of the soil. That's fairly sad, isn't it?

The crestfallen face on hearing about cat 🐯 jaisi brown eyes.

That look!

That split change if expression, when he hears all of it and sees Raavi, having fun while he remembers the evil words of Maami.

Raavi’s expression changes at the mention of her marriage. Who could blame her? That was a nightmare of a marriage!

It's such a heartbreaking frame. It’s shocking for Shiva to see how emotionally unavailable she is when he is around her.

This is so traumatic. Shiva keeps on taking the steps backwards.

The anger has just gone away! It's just sheer pain.

That's him standing like a child 👶

The marriage brings in painful memories of the past.

Shiva remembers how she had rejected him right from the word GO!

He just thinks that she is ashamed of him.

He nods his head as if trying to make him understand and save himself a heart break.

P.S- Shiva is a hooligan when he comes to his bad behaviour with Raavi! I agree with this, and that needs to be addressed. I will reserve my comments on that in a separate post

Index of Other Posts;-

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/156989457

Lovely post, Piu! ❤️❤️❤️ Loved how you described the changes in desired qualities in men through evolution.

Edit for UNRES:

This is such a wonderful post, Piu and I can't get tired of reading this and all the lovely responses.

As you've perfectly described, beauty is subjective. Yet, at some point or another, we find ourselves or others around us judging the beauty in an SM/influencer's defined mold. I heard many times that one should date in their own league. Even with some unconventional celeb couples, you'll see their comments being filled with, "what exactly did they see in each other" Because all we can see is the superficial appearance of the beauty. However, that beauty is temporary and it doesn't last a lifetime. There has to be another mode of attraction through their personality. I'm not saying the physical aspect is not important, it is, but it is just not limited to pretty eyes, a fit body, and fair skin. For me, physical attraction comes from the confidence one exudes on his/her face, it comes from one being comfortable in what he/she wears, it comes from the genuine smile that would adorn his/her face, and it comes from the emotions that are reflected in his/her eyes. For these outer attributes give insight into one's Seerat.

Coming to ShiVi, I think many here have already worded it so beautifully. And I know I have been mad at Shiva lately, but I did feel his pain on that day. What others think of him doesn't matter to him, but what his wife, whom he's started to have feelings for, does matter. The superficial aspects of beauty never mattered to him until now. You can see that in that Haveli scene when he tells Dhara that any girl who wants to be with him should see him from the same lenses that Dhara sees him with. However, for Raavi, as you've pointed out, the definition of beauty is the generic societal definition that you see on SM, TV, and movies. Because that's all she has been surrounded by thus far. And he wants to have that approval/appreciation from her eyes- which this scene reaffirmed to him that he still doesn't have her approval. And I wanted Raavi to talk more about Shiva and what makes him handsome and lovable because it's an opportunity for her to not only realize her feelings for him but also an opportunity for character growth as we see how her definition of beauty has changed.

Many have already worded it so eloquently. Not sure, if I am able to explain what I think.

Thanks, Piu again for the wonderful post and others for the eloquent responses.

Piu, lovely post! I loved ShiV’s scene from yesterday’s y, infact my heart went out for Shiva. I’m not blaming Raavi for not introducing to her friends and the reason was told to us audience explicitly. His anger is at the boiling point, she genuinely did not want her friends to be affected by it. But the makers obviously don’t want Shiva to here her reasoning or how will they stretch thieir misunderstanding.

Now coming to your post, I agree with the expectations of the society and the generation where looks take precedence and given importance over anything else. That said, I cannot relate to any of it that is being projected or popularized. But Raavi perfectly fits right into it. For her it was all about looks, Prince charming and and a fairytale wedding. Dev fits the description to the T. So, when she ended up with Shiva which happens in real life most of the time (talking about looks here, not the education) though she had problems accepting him initially, people like Mami, Sneha constantly remind her of what she deserved, in the process hurting Shiva.
Shiva prior to falling in love would not have cared what Raavi thought of him, as he was comfortable in his own skin. But the equation changed once he started to have feelings for her. As you said, why are their qualities not compared but just the looks? There are some qualities in Shiva that I find endearing infact much better than Raavi and Dev. There is also his anger which causes destruction.

Raavi has been surrounded by people with shallow thinking growing up and she has imbibed them and has accepted that is the only way to think or dream in life.
In real life, it doesn’t work like that. There is always a compromise in most cases but there are always exceptions. In my own case I gave preference to education and character over looks. My husband doesn’t look like one of those BW actors or any movie star for that matter but his education, confidence and ability to achieve things in life radiates in his face which adds to his beauty. I am perfectly happy with the way things turned out. IMO, looks are not lasting than character.

As for the scene, as I said felt very bad for Shiva. He is at the lowest point looking for acceptance and validation from his wife which he is not getting.
Coming to Raavi, as many pointed out there was no need for her to call him handsome, Shiva has qualities that describe him much better than just being handsome. Raavi has first hand his love for his mother, BhabiMa and his brothers and the extent he can go to see them all happy.

As you said, Shiva treating Raav, his manhandling, the hurt he causes her and Raavi being clueless and a dobi about what’s bothering Shiva are separate topics fir discussion.

On a lighter note, if so many guys were lattoo over Raavi, she still went behind Dev? Now it is all the more ckear to me that she was never in love with Dev, it was only a infatuation and that she vehemently called it love. Her only aim was to marry into Pandya parivar which was possible only through Dev.

Reading all the analysis posts on the ShiVi scene makes me re-think my thoughts on the scene. Though I still don't like it because it did nothing but deepen the misunderstanding, I have the admit the the makers did an excellent job filming the scene. You and Esha have both brought up such good points on surat and seerat. I just wish the scene was included earlier in their misunderstanding instead of now... so it's more of a timing issue than anything else.

Raavi's Beauty

It's a little funny how Raavi was the campus belle, yet not a single friend of hers attended the wedding nor knew who her husband was. Perhaps if this was 2000, I would be a little more forgiving, but it's 2021, and we just saw Raavi having her own social media account. Even if those friends were busy, I am surprised not a single one reached out to her to congratulate her and to see her wedding pictures. But I digress...

We always talk about it in the forums, but I really do wish 1 of 2 things for Raavi. 1: I want her to be mentally strong... if Shiva is giving her attitude, I want her to question him using her haq as his wife, I don't want her wistful expressions and smiles the next day when there's no resolution in sight. 2: I want her to have a passion beyond being a Pandya bahu. Again, it's 2021. Women have infiltrated every field known. I'm not saying being a homemaker is a sin, but nowadays, even homemakers have hobbies outside of their marriage whether it is yoga, DIY projects, small business. Raavi being beautiful doesn't matter to me, but Raavi having no ambition beyond being a Pandya bahu does. That's also why I don't like Dev that much either. Other than being handsome, Dev wasn't shown to do anything ambitious. He has an MBA, but he's given up job opportunities just to sit at home...while Shiva is seen working in the store.

Since the show is still in it's early days, I would love for Raavi to have her own separate arc where she does something for herself. Shiva can support her in making her dreams a reality. I want these same friends who talk about her style or appearance to talk about her brains. Legally Blonde did such a great job with this concept! Degrees never mattered to me... it's all how you achieve your dreams that matter. That dream can be as small as "I want to draw a potato every day in my notebook" or be as big as "I want to step on the moon."

Shiva is Handsome

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

What I find is handsome is certainly not what others find handsome and vice versa. Maybe it's because I read a lot of books, or perhaps it's because I started writing at the age of 9, but I never cared for a man's appearance. Which is why I was never able to connect to Raavi's attraction for Dev. Rather, I've always fell in love with a man's smile and sense of humor. I always thought a smile was the best insight to one's character, which is why I immediately connected to and loved the scene where Raavi stares at Shiva star struck when he laughs with no inhibitions.

Since the beginning of the show, I've understood that Raavi's type is the perfect, well-groomed gentleman. A prince charming, if you could call it that. I don't think she was ever attracted to Shiva until the haveli episodes concluded because you could interpret all those stares in multiple different ways... maybe attraction, maybe confusion, maybe admiration. Even the episode with the black shirt, I think she admired him more than being attracted to him. After coming back to Somnath, perhaps the first episode where I saw her 'attraction' for Shiva, for who he was tel and masalas included, was when she played the role of sherni while in the store.

Do I think she thinks he's truly handsome? No. A part of me says she said those empty words because how could the Beauty Queen be married to someone any less than her? This makes me think she didn't want to feel ashamed for being married to Shiva (which is a little unlikely seeing how happy and forgiving she is). Another part of me says she just has a superficial understanding of what handsome means... and without second thought, grouped Shiva into the category because she saw handsome he was in 1-2 occasions. If this is true, she needs a lot of growth to understand that handsomeness is multifaceted and doesn't just refer to someone's outward appearance. Aaliya mentioned this in a post I made in the EDT, but she joked saying Raavi couldn't have possibly understood Shiva's character with the half information she has.

And that is certainly true! They've never had a deep, meaningful conversation with each other, and it's been 4 months since they've married. This was the first time Shiva has heard about these friends... and a few weeks ago, it was the first time he heard about Raavi's former opinions of him through Sneha and the diary. There's so much potential in terms of storylines the CVs could explore if these two just talked to each other... They could explore how beauty is multifaceted, they could explore how loyalty, love, and support always triumph outward beauty... Regardless of how beauty has changed, women always looked for a man who could offer the care and protection she needs... whether it is through brute strength or money.

Shiva's Insecurities

When I was retrospectively thinking back to the episodes, I realized that Shiva is close to Dhara and Raavi because they gave him the attention when he most needed it. Dhara was someone who was constantly in his life, especially since Hardik and Gaumbi are best friends. She could've easily entered his heart by being there at his lowest point, thus his dialogue of, "I don't care how the world sees me, I only care about you and your opinions" when he and Dhara were talking with Rishita and Krish standing in the background. As for Raavi, she could've carved her own place with her constant pestering. Even if they weren't ever praising each other, they did give each other attention, and in adolescent years, attention is the best thing to happen. So, I think Raavi's words would always hurt him, whether he is married or not... the only difference is now he is married and is falling in love so the hurt has exponentially grown.

What can Raavi do to help him forget about his insecurities? Talk to him. First she should figure out what he's insecure about... then she should slowly remove them from existence. She could praise him for the simplest things, like "Thank you for putting the blankets on the bed" or she could initiate some conversation by reminding him of all the times he was her hero when they were children. He, as a character, still has a lot of work to do before ever becoming Raavi's soulmate partner, but I think his first step is to get rid of the thought that he is not and will not ever be perfect for Raavi...

With that, I end here since this post is super long and it's my bed time 😆. See you when I wake up, Piu! Up until then, terrific analysis!

Such a lovely post

I agree everyone talking about Raavi outer appearance and Shiva's too.

Unfortunately even in 2021 it still happens.

There r people like Raavi not dobi but the ones who r super pretty, intelligent or rich. They r always tagged as we saw with Raavi.

Honestly no one is there friend, they r with them for some or other reason. Their care, concern is artifical as we saw with Sneha and these people were her seniors but can say still were better.

Raavi never made a real friend that's why no one was present in any function.

Unfortunately Shivi's mess will finish only if Raavi asks Krish to lock the room from outside and Shiva doesn't has any choice but to talk.

They atleast need to have a convo about what r their expectations from each other and this relationship. They need to work together not for the sake of them being married or families, society but for themseleves.

But I think we should keep the least expectations from Shivi bcoz writer aren't interested in showing their relationship or even Dev Rishita that's why instead of these 4 and Krish, Anita is getting better screen space.

Thank you for tagging Piu! Lovely and thought provoking post.

I did not make the connect until you pointed it out- but Raavi is surrounded by friends who don't look beyond her appearance 😐 Now I just feel sad for her- she is so much more than beautiful smile and cat eyes. Conditioned by both Maami and her group for friends, maybe her aversion to Shiva(which in childhood was because of his anger) converted to disdain. My heart still breaks for Shiva reading the diary entries.

But how does a person move from this thinking? PS has become hopeless, so I don't have hopes from the makers to delve into this- but let's say she does fall in love with him. Such thinking about appearance is like a deeply ingrained habit. Would her love really be enough to change her attitude? Shiva and Raavi might be able to overcome the current insecurities with a bit of separation. But what is the gaurantee that Raavi will not say or do anything in the future that will trigger Shiva's insecurities again? 😕

From what I know, normally such ideas change only on seeing new people and hearing their stories 😐 Raavi would have had that opportunity if she was working, maybe. But stuck in Somnath, I doubt her attitude will change much. Maybe she meets a sensible college friend, who she might not have been close to in college, but whom she understands now. Maybe she can vicariously get some experience about judging people incorrectly based on their appearance 🤷‍♀️

The genetic and historic significance of the caveman vs the gentleman was really good. We might progress all we want, but some reactions are just visceral. I guess we have all discussed this to death 😆 Had Raavi married Dev, there might have been very little passion- just a lot of comfort. Though, seeing how Raavi is now, maybe that is all she needed? 😕

As for Shiva- what can I say? He makes me angry in one episode for misbehaving with Raavi, and then goes on to break my heart two episodes down. The caps and the description somehow make the scenes and the pain sharper in my mind. I just feel so terrible for him. He was probably the most confident, carefree and secure of all the brothers. He knew what he wanted, he had his priorities straight and did not care two hoots for what others thought.

The scene of Shiva touching his shirt as if it was a confirmation of his unworthiness was just... I think that is what made me mad at Raavi 😔 I am also mad at GauRa. They have all pushed him into this, and each one are in their own world, maybe not happily, but still. It's like Shiva has nowhere to go, noone to turn to. (Not going to bother including Dev for obvious reasons)

As I have mentioned in the EDT, I know the pain of having your self worth attacked and falling into a downward spiral. 😐 Even with a loving spouse and supportive family, it can be difficult to keep a brave front and pick up peices of your self. Here, Shiva is literally drowning, but noone seems to care. If he did not even show anger, they might just totally forget about him.

People keep joking about ShiVi NDEs, but I want a full on coma for Shiva, like Mahi's Woes. The guy just deserves a mental break from all this bs. And this seems to be the only way the PS folks will give a damn 🤔 Because unless they see him physically vulnerable they are going to assume he is just having an attitude adjustment problem.

Sorry about the rant 🙈 I am just so irritated with the Pandya Niwasis

Beautiful post as always ❤️ I couldn’t have conveyed this any better! Will come back to this post in the morning with more thoughts Thanks for tagging 🤗

Beautiful post!

I usually do not watch indian tv, mostly just watch one track at the beginning then completely forget the show.

PS is different for me because of how much I connect with Shiva, and how much of my mom I see in Raavi. Now I am addicted to this couple.

I am like Shiva completely, from the anger issues to the person that will go to the ends of world for family. My mom is like Raavi in terms of forgiving easily, there has only been 1 person she has not forgiven in 57 years. But she is not a airhead like Raavi, rather she is very intelligent and perceptive.

Now coming to the point why I am addicted to Shivi, my parents marriage was also a forced marriage centred around hate for each other and each other's family. My paternal grandmother has always hated my maternal grandmother from childhood and she instilled that hatred into my father. My mom was originally enaged to someone else, sadly he died on their wedding day (my mom was literally getting her makeup done when she heard about his passing). My mother never really recovered from that, she only shared this with me a few months ago when I got engaged. She said after his death, she lost that excitement regarding marriage and life, she knew my dad and his family hated her and she had no hope for the future, she just compromised because life already dealt her blow that she never recovered from. Though I was angry with Raavi for using the word compromise, the scene brought back what my mom told me. Raavi must also lost that excitement and hope regarding marriage and life especially after parents death, being dumped at the alter and marrying someone who hates her. She also does not have hope of a normal marriage so she is compromising with her situation.

Before anyone asks how my parents got married, it was political alliance between my great grandfathers, both were very high ranking politicians, so the marriage was an alliance between two political parties and village tribes.

When I see Shivi on screen right now, I see my parents for the last 30 years. The only difference is that my dad never loved/liked my mom, he was in love with a Russian girl. A happy ending for Shivi is like an AU for my parents.

Shivi storyline is beautiful if the writers actually write a proper story. It has so much potential but cvs are busy showing chewing gum nonsense.

Anyway don't know why I am sharing this but reading all the post in the last few weeks have made me look at my parents relationship a little differently and their story has made me connect with Shiva and Raavi in a very deep spiritual level.

Hugs! I shall revert soon because I need time to process the catharsis here 🤗

I teared up! Much love to you, and thank you for sharing such a precious part of your life.

Gratitude and love!

A much needed and imp post🤗i also wish to write down something..dont know if it helps and if i wud pen my ideas down convincingly...but I will try...

Beauty is something everyone appreciates....everyone gets attracted to handsome or pretty face...but as told here one needs more exposure to the real world to know that its not all...one needs to meet ppl and read alot to understand that beauty can take a back seat if other qualities take the wheel...but like Raavi there are ppl who takes care of house and household things and for those ppl TV and SM is the "real" world...and There we are served very different ideas and nowadays most of the ppl including kids are at home and so they are on the SM and TV( and we can understand that from KD's lives)

Films and serials serve the gori lady and prince charming wala ideas...In serials Women are not shown working, they are shown wearing beautiful kapde and plotting and men are shown as eyecandies... And for ppl who lack exposure To the world, they believe it...and for them thats all

In mahabhart draupadi is a dark lady but a lady of fierce character and arjun as dark man of valour and bravery...but TV fears to show dark Draupadi or krishna or arjun...I think most of todays kids fell for draupadi and arjun not bcoz of character but for the actors..

Recently a new actress has become popular in Malayalam...and her acting is excellent but some ppl still are airheaded and started commenting on how she is dark and cud hv used a bit of make up and how she luks always sweaty...she was also asked to put more makeup by a senior actress in one interview...but she was determined to be comfortable in her skin and i loved her for that

TV, films and shows are changing but makers fear drastic changes and often show the old manipulative ideas...and these ideas makes an impact on ppl like Raavi who are less experianced with the real world...

Raavi never had an inspiring character around her to motivate her to think otherwise...Shiva being the experianced one, we can understand how he was comfortable until he fell in love. We shud motivate ppl to read more, talk more( even if its with parents and family)...finding a job and being independent shud be the priority of gals and thats never shown on ITV( be it hindi, malayalam or any language)

PS: dont know what i wrote😆