Sunny and Raghav: Converging and Diverging - Page 2

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

(Hope you don't mind me replying here, wanted to move this conversation out of the other thread)

Thanks for replying in such detail!

I have a theory about Raghav's abuse towards his staff. If we look at him in the first 10-15 episodes, and we look at him in episode 20 onwards, a lot of initiat traits have been dropped. The strong MCP attitude, and the aggression towards staff is one of them, and I think this is intentional, because initial reception of the character was fairly criticised. In fact, I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

Because honest to God, those two scenes serve absolutely no other purpose than to tell the audience, "Hum character thoda badal rahe hain, pehle waala ignore karo please"

But haan, I've said this pehle also, and in this post, so I fully agree. I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. It's a legit character flaw, and I will not defend him, because he's wrong on that front, undoubtedly.

I'll be so happy if Sunny gets the chance to redeem himself! I love the character. But what I've seen these two weeks, I just want him away from Kirti because all my sympathies to any woman who's with a man like him 😡

I'm glad ki you've decided to make a separate post on this topic else a lot of us would've missed out on it.❤️

@b yep agreed! I felt the same after the truck wala epi. The forum was on fire!!!To me tho, It went with his initial characterisation.He was after all a don yeh sab toh jata hihain but the backlash for that was too much. I feel after that particular backlash cvs have drastically mellowed him down. Hence all those previous character traits vanished all of a sudden.

Also the business part of it was altered I feel. Initially raghav probably was suppose to be in illegal stuffs like lion but they had to change it as well after the backlash.

Originally posted by: OceanicHeart.

Oh my god this is such a brilliant post ! 👏

I am so glad you are calling out Raghav too!

Raghav now maybe husband of the year but before he was too much! Sunny was correct in reminding Pallu ki uske khud ka ghar seeshe ka hai.

The points of similarity posted by you is so true. I thought I am the only one thinking this way. Yes Raghav and sunny are similar. Just that sunny has a bit more crude way of speaking.

But Raghav in initial episodes was exactly like Sunny.

Raghav was too shown to be a misogynist. I remember in the first episode Raghav tells Pallavi." Women are better off in kitchen and shouldn't cross that line" . He had also told her women are incapable of handling business.

I cringed so bad.

They also tried to portray a playboy figure for Raghav and he also outright demeaned the first woman who was with him in the car.

But after few episodes the whole MCP attitude and playboy thing was nowhere to be seen. So obviously everyone forgot about it.

Raghav was also rude to his staff. The way he shouted at his servant when he showed concern for him was very rudein the first epi. He also acted rudely at certain times to other staff members.

The things he did to Pallavi were just unacceptable. From kidnapping her to throwing her infront of a truck!

Gosh! Writing all this makes me feel how these days we gush on Raghav when he has done such unacceptable things in the past!

The problem is ITV always loves a very flawed toxic male paired up with this sanskari bubbly girl troope. Who will come into his life and change him.

No wonder women love to stay in an abusive relationship and justify her man's nature thinking he will change for her. But sadly their life is not a serial and not everyone turns 360 degree convinently ! Men like these don't change and often end up abusing their Patners.

The only difference between Raghav and sunny that I feel is the part for love and loyalty.

RR does have an emotional quotient. But it is for limited people. Obviously now that he is in love with pallavi he will protect and love her at any cost.

Sunny seems to lack that maybe cause he was never in love with keerthi.

But the initial episode Raghav and sunny were no different!

I'm sure if sunny changes and becomes good. Everyone will soon start rooting for SunKi. Again a very problematic behaviour in us as fangirls

@bold- I've been Raghav's biggest critic, so not calling him out ka toh chance hi nahi hai. I'm glad Sunny calls him on it too, and I'm glad Pallavi didn't go all 'mera pati amazing hai' because it would have been so hollow. Sunny's taunts hit home, because they're true- whether about Raghav's attitude, or towards the RaghVi marriage.

In real life, no woman would fall for Raghav after all his bullshit. This is TV, and they're fated to be, tabhi yeh aaj kal ki cuteness chal rahi hai. Warna Raghav deserves a jail sentence and a restraining order, and if Pallavi had the good sense, she'd have removed herself from his presence long, long back. His behaviour really doesn't allow for second chances.

Hayye, those comments on women in the first few episodes- they were so freaking disgusting. Mujhe Pallavi se solid waala pyaar ho gaya tha, warna no way I'd have watched this show. Same with slapping Harish when Kirti and Pallavi caught him, woh bhi sabke saamne. Very, very gross. There was also a lot of backlash IIRC, which is why I think they phased these traits out, and gave us explicit scenes to correct for this, because they realized ki the character was too difficult to root for. Generally, I try not to take the first 15-20 episodes of characterization very seriously, because a lot of correction happens based on response. Pallavi was also a lot less spunky and a lot more preachy in the beginning.

I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these poorly received traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

But I won't defend Raghav here- I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. Pallavi also called him out, when he was hungover, and I hope he gets better. His way of talking to Farhad is also very bad sometimes.

@red- exactly. That's why I get upset when we see these plots on TV also, because it sends the wrong message. In real life, one should leave at the first sign of abuse, and never look back, because 99.99% of the time, the abuser is not going to change.

Originally posted by: SRKian

This!! 👏

@r I was also meaning to comment on it but forgot to add 😆 But I totally agree on this.Granted the girl was no good as per the typical itv land standard.Yes the girl was playing with raghav but raghav too was playing with her.How conveniently we've forgotten about all those initial incidents but blame sunny for the same😆 Sunny has invaded kirti's privacy on his entry epi so did raghav on multiple occasions with pallu.

There are so many similarities between the two characters so a comparison is a given.

Ps- I'm not at all defending sunny like some may think because I like Kush.😆

Hahaha if anyone thinks we are in anyway defending sunny their bad. We are calling out a spade, spade ! 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yeah the way Raghav had behaved with that first girl gosh. The thing is after just those epis they completely changed it. Never again we saw Raghav's misogynist behaviour.

Infact in the epi where Pallavi is unconscious on highway. Raghav actually says, "We should protect women as they are the backbone of our society"

So I like to think that Raghav is not an outright MCP. More like when he is angry he said those rude words to Pallu.

Also the first girl was not even bothered by his comment infact she found him hot. Like wtf 🤣

Such a horrible depiction by CVs.

I agree with you Raghav too has invaded Pallavi's privacy. But all seems to be forgotten now.

But I will also give it to the CVs for showing a good redemption track.

Infact in ITV male leads never get a redemption track.

I will also appreciate RR when he reminded Pallavi not to keep a fast for him as he has done horrible things to her in past. 👏

I'm liking that CVs remember that Raghav was a flawed character 👍🏼

Originally posted by: SRKian

I'm glad ki you've decided to make a separate post on this topic else a lot of us would've missed out on it.❤️

@b yep agreed! I felt the same after the truck wala epi. The forum was on fire!!!To me tho, It went with his initial characterisation.He was after all a don yeh sab toh jata hihain but the backlash for that was too much. I feel after that particular backlash cvs have drastically mellowed him down. Hence all those previous character traits vanished all of a sudden.

Also the business part of it was altered I feel. Initially raghav probably was suppose to be in illegal stuffs like lion but they had to change it as well after the backlash.

Yaar, I don't mind the toning down of the character. Warna mere dimaag mein, I'd always have the hesitance in rooting for the character.

Originally posted by: SRKian

I'm glad ki you've decided to make a separate post on this topic else a lot of us would've missed out on it.❤️

@b yep agreed! I felt the same after the truck wala epi. The forum was on fire!!!To me tho, It went with his initial characterisation.He was after all a don yeh sab toh jata hihain but the backlash for that was too much. I feel after that particular backlash cvs have drastically mellowed him down. Hence all those previous character traits vanished all of a sudden.

Also the business part of it was altered I feel. Initially raghav probably was suppose to be in illegal stuffs like lion but they had to change it as well after the backlash.

@bold.... Really 😲

I had started watching this serial very late around April. I remember close to Pallavi throwing out drama. So when I was watching the initial episodes I was quite shocked at Raghav's portrayal. The truck one was so bad.

But true they really changed major problematic parts of his character the MCP attitude & playboy thing.

I'm glad CVs took the criticism well and changed the track. Some CVs are so blind to public reaction they still keep showing toxic things 🤦🏻‍♀️

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

I want to again emphasize, the reason I've accepted Raghav, and am willing to accept Sunny as well if he turns over a new leaf, is purely because it's a fictional character. Real life mein aise kaamon ki maafi ya redemption nahi hoti, irrespective of how legit the guilt is, and every woman (or man!) should keep themselves as far as possible from people like them, because relationships like these don't end well. I wish we one day reach a point in mainstream ITV where they don't rely on such toxic behaviour to generate tension, and as viewers, we should always call these things out, because how else will there ever be change?

Honestly, I think Sunny's 'vidhwa gareeb' comment today was just for exposition in front of Ved. This entire plotline seems to be set up just so Ved can get constant updates just by coincidence, without putting in effore.

True😆 this is just lazy writing. Cvs know ki sunny isn't a fan fav toh made him the balika bakra to let lion have all the info through him🤣

I'll hold it against cvs for doing that to kush😭😆

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

I was so hoping you'd drop in here!!! My partner in loving Sunny in the face of the overwhelmingly negative response to the character! 🤗

@bold- not getting this plot will be a grievance I'll always hold against this show yaar 💔💔Kitna potential tha, iss plot aur iss character mein 😭😭

@red- of course, Raghav ko iss baat pe defend karna bhi nahi chahiye. He's wrong in that sense. I responded to this to another comment also, so I'm just going to copy-paste, because I feel really lazy about typing it out again 🙈🙈

I have a theory about Raghav's abuse towards his staff. If we look at him in the first 10-15 episodes, and we look at him in episode 20 onwards, a lot of initiat traits have been dropped. The strong MCP attitude, and the aggression towards staff is one of them, and I think this is intentional, because initial reception of the character was fairly criticised. In fact, I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

Because honest to God, those two scenes serve absolutely no other purpose than to tell the audience, "Hum character thoda badal rahe hain, pehle waala ignore karo please"

But haan, I've said this pehle also, and in this post, so I fully agree. I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. It's a legit character flaw, and I will not defend him, because he's wrong on that front, undoubtedly.

Eventual bonding between Sunny and Pallavi is something I wanted so badly, and this week I've just been making my peace with the fact ki aisa kuch nahi milne waala. Our boy is gonna live the rest of his life thinking kanji aankhon waale log dicey hote hain... the more I think about the potential Sunny had, the more it upsets me. But khair, chhodo.

@blue- I agree. Real life mein, donon ki harkaton ki koi maafi nahi ho, no matter how much they change and grovel. If Pallavi was someone I knew IRL, I'd have kidnapped her and plonked her in Kohlapur myself, ki bas tu nikal jaa yahaan se. This is a story, and unfortunately, ITV doesn't take such crimes as seriously as they should, so the characters are still redeemable.

I actually quit the show at one point, and it was much before the truck scene- it was, in fact, the first pallu-sweat-wiping scene. It was so well executed, the chemistry was palpable, and yet....the idea of a woman being cornered on a lonely road, in the middle of the night, being cornered by a physically much stronger, angry, aggressive man...isn't it all of our worst nightmare? The scene completely shook me, andar se ghabrahat hui thi, and I pretty much stopped watching for a while. I quit again at the truck scene, it crossed every damn line and I was so, so angry, and that scene I've actually never watched. I saw the written update, and it pissed me off so much, I knew ki if I watch it, I'll never be able to give the show another chance. Frankly, it was Pallavi for whom I kept coming back to the show, because I really liked her.

There could be another purpose to the drunk night scene and conversation with his servants which is to portray that Raghav isn’t a bad person in his heart but just a man who has been hardened by life experiences which have made him a very bitter person.

Otherwise I agree to everything you said even if he is protective of his staff and workers and cares for them it still doesn’t justify him being rude to them whenever he feels like it because being a little rude when you are stressed or upset can be excused if you don’t actually demean them because of their status because kabhi kabhi ho jaata hai IRL also but he gets extremely rude when he is in a bad mood and says hurtful stuff.

Another purpose of the drunk scene was to show Raghav is not a misogynist at heart and that deep down he has good values because no matter how much he troubled Pallavi he never thought of her as less and thought of her as a worthy opponent which a true misogynistic person would never do they actually think of women as less than men and also he covered her with his coat when her coat when her blouse got torn showing however badtameez he might be he still respects women somewhere deep down because that’s what his Amma nanna had taught him.

But as far as inexcusable behaviour goes I do agree with you entirely the truck thing really is inexcusable and in fact I want Pallavi to have a nightmare because of that incident once when they start sharing a room he should know to what extent he had scared her.

And though we know Raghav never really intended to harm or assault Pallavi in that cornering her on a deserted road and only wanted to scare her, it’s still inexcusable as for a girl in that situation it would have been downright terrifying and yes it’s every girl’s worst nightmare and Raghav having a sister should have kept that in mind.

Also this is all fictional so reconciliation ka socha bhi jaa sakta hai only because of the superb redemption track given to Raghav but in reality even the forced marriage thing alone is bad enough to not be excused and truck thing was just too much and no one seriously no one would excuse this.

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

@bold- I've been Raghav's biggest critic, so not calling him out ka toh chance hi nahi hai. I'm glad Sunny calls him on it too, and I'm glad Pallavi didn't go all 'mera pati amazing hai' because it would have been so hollow. Sunny's taunts hit home, because they're true- whether about Raghav's attitude, or towards the RaghVi marriage.

In real life, no woman would fall for Raghav after all his bullshit. This is TV, and they're fated to be, tabhi yeh aaj kal ki cuteness chal rahi hai. Warna Raghav deserves a jail sentence and a restraining order, and if Pallavi had the good sense, she'd have removed herself from his presence long, long back. His behaviour really doesn't allow for second chances.

Hayye, those comments on women in the first few episodes- they were so freaking disgusting. Mujhe Pallavi se solid waala pyaar ho gaya tha, warna no way I'd have watched this show. Same with slapping Harish when Kirti and Pallavi caught him, woh bhi sabke saamne. Very, very gross. There was also a lot of backlash IIRC, which is why I think they phased these traits out, and gave us explicit scenes to correct for this, because they realized ki the character was too difficult to root for. Generally, I try not to take the first 15-20 episodes of characterization very seriously, because a lot of correction happens based on response. Pallavi was also a lot less spunky and a lot more preachy in the beginning.

I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these poorly received traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

But I won't defend Raghav here- I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. Pallavi also called him out, when he was hungover, and I hope he gets better. His way off talking to Farhad is also very bad sometimes.

@red- exactly. That's why I get upset when we see these plots on TV also, because it sends the wrong message. In real life, one should leave at the first sign of abuse, and never look back, because 99.99% of the time, the abuser is not going to change.

@bold.... Yes those scenes were specifically added to redeem Raghav. I feel it was more like oh Raghav is not bura dil se types.

But the 15-20 episodes Raghav was a totally different Raghav!

@underlined.... So so true. Definitely Real life no chance to Raghav. Should have been behind the bars !

Originally posted by: OceanicHeart.

@bold.... Yes those scenes were specifically added to redeem Raghav. I feel it was more like oh Raghav is not bura dil se types.

But the 15-20 episodes Raghav was a totally different Raghav!

@underlined.... So so true. Definitely Real life no chance to Raghav. Should have been behind the bars !

Honestly, I'm glad they toned him down, warna mujhse yeh show dekha na jaata. Shuru ka Raghav...swag on point, terrible personality.

Originally posted by: aye-masakalii

I was so hoping you'd drop in here!!! My partner in loving Sunny in the face of the overwhelmingly negative response to the character! 🤗

@bold- not getting this plot will be a grievance I'll always hold against this show yaar 💔💔Kitna potential tha, iss plot aur iss character mein 😭😭

@red- of course, Raghav ko iss baat pe defend karna bhi nahi chahiye. He's wrong in that sense. I responded to this to another comment also, so I'm just going to copy-paste, because I feel really lazy about typing it out again 🙈🙈

I have a theory about Raghav's abuse towards his staff. If we look at him in the first 10-15 episodes, and we look at him in episode 20 onwards, a lot of initiat traits have been dropped. The strong MCP attitude, and the aggression towards staff is one of them, and I think this is intentional, because initial reception of the character was fairly criticised. In fact, I believe two scenes were added specifically to overcorrect for these traits:

1) the drunk lecture to Farhad about women being the backbone of society, to correct for the initial misogyny

2) the scene with his staff member whose sun fixed up his table tennis racket to emphasise how caring for his staff he is to correct for his behaviour towards his staff

Because honest to God, those two scenes serve absolutely no other purpose than to tell the audience, "Hum character thoda badal rahe hain, pehle waala ignore karo please"

But haan, I've said this pehle also, and in this post, so I fully agree. I really don't like his behaviour to his staff. Chahe jitna bhi help kare, and they may be forgiving of it all because he does them right in other ways, you shouldn't talk to people like that. It's a legit character flaw, and I will not defend him, because he's wrong on that front, undoubtedly.

Eventual bonding between Sunny and Pallavi is something I wanted so badly, and this week I've just been making my peace with the fact ki aisa kuch nahi milne waala. Our boy is gonna live the rest of his life thinking kanji aankhon waale log dicey hote hain... the more I think about the potential Sunny had, the more it upsets me. But khair, chhodo.

@blue- I agree. Real life mein, donon ki harkaton ki koi maafi nahi ho, no matter how much they change and grovel. If Pallavi was someone I knew IRL, I'd have kidnapped her and plonked her in Kohlapur myself, ki bas tu nikal jaa yahaan se. This is a story, and unfortunately, ITV doesn't take such crimes as seriously as they should, so the characters are still redeemable.

I actually quit the show at one point, and it was much before the truck scene- it was, in fact, the first pallu-sweat-wiping scene. It was so well executed, the chemistry was palpable, and yet....the idea of a woman being cornered on a lonely road, in the middle of the night, being cornered by a physically much stronger, angry, aggressive man...isn't it all of our worst nightmare? The scene completely shook me, andar se ghabrahat hui thi, and I pretty much stopped watching for a while. I quit again at the truck scene, it crossed every damn line and I was so, so angry, and that scene I've actually never watched. I saw the written update, and it pissed me off so much, I knew ki if I watch it, I'll never be able to give the show another chance. Frankly, it was Pallavi for whom I kept coming back to the show, because I really liked her.

Haha🤗 we're two odd ones out here😎🤣

Ikr!such a missed opportunity smh!

Nahi re not saying you're defending raghav there bas was telling ki even raghav was bad to his men.Sunny was the only one getting the hit when raghav was equally or maybe was worse in this case.

Haan I agree these two scenes served no other purpose then showing raghav in a better light and I'm glad ki cvs decided to show those. I loved the second scene.It was just so❤️

@b haan yaar

I totally get you about the truck and pole scene. Although,I'll be honest these two scenes didn't make as mad when I thought from raghav's character pov. I mean he was supposed to be a don yehi karegna.And the pole scene is one of my fav raghvi scenes(ik it's extremely problematic but since its fiction I went with it) I freaking loved raghav in that scene and I won't lie about it🙈 Having said that, see how so many of us gushed over raghav even after he invaded her privacy time and again yet we go extra had on sunny😆 I can assure you had sunny been in raghav's place in the epi where raghav was looking at pallu's kamar,we would've levelled him as a pervert/creep and what not but since it's raghav and he's the hero to chalta hain😆