Changing Shiva? Is it really that important? - Page 3

Originally posted by: Transference

You know, it shows that if you are nasty at heart but have a clean body, you can practically get away with anything. My problem is not with Shiva being asked to maintain basic hygiene; my problem is that everyone gets a chance to humiliate him just because he does all the odd jobs, as Rishita says very clearly - he does all the work of a servant.

While Dev, Krish and Gaumbi were relaxing in the pehli Rasoi Rasam, Shiva was the one bringing firewood and helping the women around in heat. He could have chilled too and showered focussing on his hygiene and grooming instead.

No no piu , there is a minor difference.. yesterday the point of contention was hygiene only...I don't think raavi has any.problem with him doing labour work ..she gave a befitting reply to "mami" , not rishita , in this regard....ke kaam.karne se koi Naukar nahi hota....So that's clearly what she believes in .....If raavi thinks low of him , she would have thrown away his clothes , not care to wash them...what was concerning to her , rishita mistook his clothes for.pocha ..for so many days if a garment is not washed , this is what others will think...frm the beginning they have stressed on the point that Shiva doesn't maintain hygiene. Imo raavi didn't even create a ruckus out of it..raavi washed his clothes in hot water & tell dhara that she should be the one to teach Shiva basics of hygiene from.childhood... raavi ki soch is not shallow like rishita.

I fully understand where he comes from, infact I was the first one to make a post on how education is not necessary to run a successfill.enterprise..hardwork also matters ..my father and my husband both had to give up their education at an early stage to look after the family business ....I love that scene where Shiva decided to give up on school when he saw gombi doing labour work to deposit their school fees. He had marks all over his back but he and dhara never treated the brothers as burden.. there is a reason he respects them so much . Raavi also knows.

From.her behavior and words I never felt that she expects shiva to be in a certain way ..their relation has not reached that level ..when it will, these things will automatically come between them.. how to please their partners by doing what they like..including dressing up how they like.

Originally posted by: asmaanixx

I never implied that your post was sexist, rather the ideation that women have to compromise while their partners don't have to change a single thing about themselves is. Apologies if that's the way it was interpreted.

I know that your post is about Shiva's clothing, but the characters in the show have never focused on that being a sole matter of contention. Rather, they have used his clothes and dressing sense to sprout other forms of insults for Shiva such as his poor hygiene and Raavi having to "settle" with him. Ergo, why I brought out these points, as well as they are quite interconnected.

In regards to Raavi and Shiva respecting each other; they both need to respect themselves first. Raavi needs to overcome the trauma she has suffered and move on from her suicidal ideations, while Shiva needs to stop being a doormat for Dhara and learn how to be an individual. They do care for one another, but there is still a lot of friction between them that doesn't really let them have a civil conversation even though they're both well capable of having one. While Raavi is willing to drop their fights and make peace with him, I don't think Shiva really knows how to be with Raavi unless it's constant fight mode. Once Shiva moves past this stance, it's only then that they can start having conversations where they present their point of view without being wholly assertive.

I understand Shiva's line of profession and your lived experience with your in-laws, but it doesn't change my stance on cleanliness. Shiva may not have a problem with the smell since a) he has lived with it for so long that he might not even notice it and b) he genuinely doesn't care. However, now that he is married, he needs to take into account Raavi's likes and dislikes as well. If she's having a huge problem with his odour, then the very least he can do is put on some deodorant.

I'm not sure where in my post you got the idea that clothes make a gentleman? Someone could be dressed to the tens and still end up being the douchiest dick on the planet.

Hey, first of all, why apologise. 🤗🤗

I loved the rationale and the beautifully expressed post yours. I think the point of contention here is that the makers have mixed up hygiene and clothing, and hence we are going round and round in circles. I love the fact you have made about respecting themselves first.

Raavi needs to come out of the self-pity mode, but you know, I don't blame her for having such mixed thoughts. The girl has been through hell and back every day, being a massive challenge for her. She has not only to see the man she loved for ten years in front of his eyes but also being pushed to cater as a wife to Shiva.

There are far too many issues between them which sadly the makers brushed under the carpet. They need to give them the suitable space to grow, nurture their relationship and understand their strategy to survive, sustain and be happy.

Thank you for this heartfelt comment!

Originally posted by: hedwig_potter

I absolutely love your post yaar!!❤️❤️

And I am so glad to see that there are at least some people who share my viewpoint.🤗

Before I write anything else, firstly, I would like to mention that just like others, I too want Shiva to take a bath everyday, and wear clean clothes and maintain basic hygiene. I also, do agree that for certain occasions one has to dress up properly.

This is why I love that scene when Dev apologizes to Shiva, and then says that he knows his brother, knows that Shiva is internally just like his name, and knows how beautiful he is, inside out, and one day Raavi will realize that too. And I also like how Shiva says he doesn't want to show anyone his beauty. I agree that Shiva longs to be accepted and loved, but he knows that true love can happen only when there is acceptance, and hence he won't change himself. In his words to Dhara, jisko pyaar karna hoga wo aise hi kar legi.

(One of the rare few scenes of Dev, which I genuinely love very much)

Which is why, unless the CVs go bonkers, logically speaking, makers are going to keep Shiva as he is. (Also, in case CVs do go bonkers, then I am going to stop watching)

I know many people believe that, "beauty is only skin deep" and other such phrases are nice to hear but at the end of the day looks matter for everyone. And while that actually is true for many people, but not for everybody.

I myself believe that beauty is of mind, not of body. I know at least some other people do agree with me. They might be less in number, but they exist. Maybe many people might not agree with me, maybe even believe that I am a hypocrite, but that won't change the truth, so I am the least bit concerned about it (no offense).

Man or woman, no one should be judged on the basis of clothes. Everyone has freedom to express themselves the way they want to.

Not going to write a much longer post because, 1) Most of the things have already been put by others very beautifully, 2) Those who already share my views, I don't feel the need to explain anything more to them, 3) Those who do not agree with me, I do not wish to attempt to change their views, they are entitled to their opinions.

Slightly off-topic, but I am also unhappy with the way labor work is being regarded as insulting. I genuinely do believe that no profession is small. Yes some are more demanding jobs, some are more prestigious, but no one should be disrespected in this way.

I already had a beautiful discussion with forum members on prejudice against uneducated people, so again I won't say much.

Anyways, would like to say it again that I loved your post a lot❤️🤗

Hey 🤗

Thank you for this well-articulated comment of yours. The discussions here have been enriching, and I agree with each of the points you've made.

@ Bold, I think we, human beings are very programmed to live in a binary world. Educated-uneducated is sadly a representative mindset of the same. Labour work is generally considered trivial; labour is grossly underpaid.

The most prominent example being the fashion industry, where Karigars only earn a handful while the white-collared speakers make in Lakhs.

I loved Shiva’s dialogues today, where he expresses that you can not run a shop by sitting at the cash counter. You have to run errands, and for that, clothing doesn't matter.

Rest, we all want Shiva to bathe and smell good 😆

Originally posted by: _charu_

No no piu , there is a minor difference.. yesterday the point of contention was hygiene only...I don't think raavi has any.problem with him doing labour work ..she gave a befitting reply to "mami" , not rishita , in this regard....ke kaam.karne se koi Naukar nahi hota....So that's clearly what she believes in .....If raavi thinks low of him , she would have thrown away his clothes , not care to wash them...what was concerning to her , rishita mistook his clothes for.pocha ..for so many days if a garment is not washed , this is what others will think...frm the beginning they have stressed on the point that Shiva doesn't maintain hygiene. Imo raavi didn't even create a ruckus out of it..raavi washed his clothes in hot water & tell dhara that she should be the one to teach Shiva basics of hygiene from.childhood... raavi ki soch is not shallow like rishita.

I fully understand where he comes from, infact I was the first one to make a post on how education is not necessary to run a successfill.enterprise..hardwork also matters ..my father and my husband both had to give up their education at an early stage to look after the family business ....I love that scene where Shiva decided to give up on school when he saw gombi doing labour work to deposit their school fees. He had marks all over his back but he and dhara never treated the brothers as burden.. there is a reason he respects them so much . Raavi also knows.

From.her behavior and words I never felt that she expects shiva to be in a certain way ..their relation has not reached that level ..when it will, these things will automatically come between them.. how to please their partners by doing what they like..including dressing up how they like.

Charuuu 🤗I remember our conversation about your family, and trust me, people need to value hard work.

Like I mentioned in another post, the point of dissatisfaction and embarrassment for Raavu is layered. Hygiene is a part of it, and that can be tackled, but what about the bottom line of being ashamed about clothing that Shiva delves deeper into.

That goes without saying; Shiva needs to bathe and maintain hygiene at least before going to sleep 🤣

Originally posted by: maanmeet1

can i just say......its the most beautiful post i have read regarding this matter....u have analyzed the situation so perfectly........

dev's good looks and his neat clothes doesnt matter when he cant put forth his point amongst his loved ones....he cant stand for what is right....he doesnt have what it takes to be a man........by man i dont mean manly qualities.....he may have hit janardan for insulting his bhabhi ma but eventually got married to rishita forgetting everything.....he lacks spine....

here shiva never bothered about how he looks or how someone else does.....he is confident in his own skin and the way he is and is accepted by his family....i remember how he felt hurt when dhara called him junglee ...he works too hard.....i have issue with that also......i have never seen gautam, dev doing the work he does.......why only him?

he wears his heart on his sleeves.....he is honest, loyal, hard working, trustworthy and pure....no matter how much he disliked raavi he saved her, got married to her on dhara's insistence....and noone dares to say anything to him or his family coz everyone knows he is their to shield dem.........

i loved him the way he is.....by changing him, his essence will be lost......all that makes him what he is....apart from hygiene part(taking bath) i wouldnt want him to change a bit......i dont find his clothes bad......

raavi washed clothes coz she felt embarrassed not out of love or care......as raavi didnt ask for this situation, so as shiva......both are in the same boat......

Thanks for your detailed comment.

@bold That's a correct observation. I believe the characterisation of Shiva has been extremely sensitive, and from childhood itself, he is seen valuing manual labour. He doesn't care about what others will think. Also, people who do physical work tend to feel hungry more and are generally have a well-built, athletic structure.

Shiva had seen Gaumbi doing hard work in his store, and that day, he suddenly grew up, and from that day, he is seen as a completely changed person.

Dhara reprimanding him was extremely painful though

Originally posted by: Transference

Thanks for your detailed comment.

@bold That's a correct observation. I believe the characterisation of Shiva has been extremely sensitive, and from childhood itself, he is seen valuing manual labour. He doesn't care about what others will think. Also, people who do physical work tend to feel hungry more and are generally have a well-built, athletic structure.

Shiva had seen Gaumbi doing hard work in his store, and that day, he suddenly grew up, and from that day, he is seen as a completely changed person.

Dhara reprimanding him was extremely painful though

@bold 🥺

he changed the day he saw gaumbi doing that work.......

I love your discussion posts... So much thought goes into everyone's opinion and most of them I agree with.

One thing I wanted to add was I don't think Shiva has an actual problem with being clean; he's never really refused to have a bath whenever it's been mentioned he tries to avoid it and maybe just doesn't enjoy it (with all the manual labour he does, he might feel as though it is pointless). Also the fact that a couple of episodes ago, he's prepared a bath without anyone actively telling him(despite that being cvs trying to bring in a bathroom Shivi scene, which is happening in every serial at the moment it seems).

Raavi feeling insulted gave me mixed feelings. Was she feeling that way because she genuinely felt bad that Shiva was being spoken about that way or because it was demeaning for her to be married to someone who doesn't care about his appearance as much as she cares about hers. I'm hoping it is the former because that will show (according to me) some character growth for her in terms of moving away from his physical attributes. It would be a good contrast to one of their first scenes together where she sprayed perfume on him and said exactly the same thing as Rishita did.