~| Whatever you want to argue about - 2 |~ - Page 55

CE, Vol 10, 1982 (4)

In Krishna’s presence, Rama,Kritavarma, Yuyudhana,19 Gada and Babhru started to drink. In the midst of the assembly, Yuyudhana became intoxicated. He disrespected Kritavarma and said, “Is there anyone who thinks himself to be akshatriya who will kill those who are asleep and are therefore almost as if dead? O Hardikya! TheYadavas will not tolerate what you have done.” When Yuyudhana said this, Pradyumna, foremost among warriors, praised these words and dishonoured Kritavarma. Kritavarma became extremelyenraged. He stretched out his left hand in contempt and replied, “When Bhurishrava was in a state ofpraya in the battle, you severed his arm. How could a brave person have brought him down and slainhim in such a cruel fashion?”20 Hearing these words, Keshava, the destroyer of enemy heroes, cast anangry and oblique glance of anger.21 Satyaki reminded Madhusudana about the Syamantaka gem thatused to be with Satrajit.22 Hearing this, Satyabhama was enraged. In her rage, she approachedJanardana and sat on his lap. In his rage, Satyaki arose and spoke these words. “I truthfully take apledge this one will go where the five sons of Droupadi, Dhrishtadyumna and Shikhandi have gone.While they were asleep, this evil-souled one killed them in their sleep. This wicked Kritavarma wasaided by Drona’s son. O slender-waisted one! His lifespan and fame have come to an end.” Speakingin this way, he angrily picked up a sword and though he was near Keshava, attacked him23 and angrilysevered his head. Once Yuyudhana had killed him, he attacked the others in all directions and began tokill them, though Hrishikesha sought to restrain him.‘O great king! All of them were goaded by destiny. The Bhojas and the Andhakas united andsurrounded Shini’s descendant.24 Janardana saw them descend, angrily and forcefully. But knowingthat the time had come, the greatly energetic one was not enraged. They were driven by intoleranceand were intoxicated by the liquor. They began to strike Yuyudhana with the vessels from which theyhad been eating. Seeing that Shini’s descendant was being struck, Rukmini’s son25 became angry. Herushed forward to free Satyaki, Shini’s descendant, who was engaged with the Bhojas and theAndhakas. However, while Krishna looked on, those two were slain by the many. On seeing thatShini’s descendant and his own son had been killed, Keshava, the descendant of the Yadu lineage,angrily picked up a clump of eraka grass in his hand. This turned into a terrible club that was as firmas the vajra. With this, Krishna slew all those who were in front of him. Goaded by time, in thattumult, the Andhakas, the Bhojas, the Shinis and the Vrishnis slew each other with clubs. O king! Olord! Whenever anyone plucked out a clump of eraka grass, this was seen to turn into something likethe vajra. The grass was seen to turn into clubs there. O lord of the earth! Know that all this happenedbecause of the brahmana’s staff. O king! Whenever a blade of grass was hurled, it was seen to becomea firm club that was like the vajra and became something that could pierce even impenetrable objects.O descendant of the Bharata lineage! Son killed father and father killed son. They were intoxicated.They descended on each other and crushed each other. The Kukuras and the Andhakas were likeinsects falling into a fire. While they were being killed, they didn’t entertain any thoughts of runningaway. Knowing that the time of destruction had come, the mighty-armed Madhusudana stood there,looking on and with the club upraised. Madhava saw that Samba had been killed and so hadCharudeshna. O descendant of the Bharata lineage! With Pradyumna and Aniruddha also killed, hebecame angry. Seeing that Gada was lying down, he became extremely wrathful. The wielder ofSharnga, chakra and the club slew all those who were left. When they were killed, the greatlyenergetic Babhru, the destroyer of enemy cities, and Daruka spoke to Dasharha. Listen. “O illustriousone! All of them have been killed by you. Let us follow Rama’s footsteps and go where he has gone.”

CE, Vol 10, 1982 (4)

Vaishampayana said, ‘Daruka, Keshava and Babhru left and followed Rama’s footsteps. They sawthe infinitely valorous Rama seated in a desolate spot, at the foot of a tree. Krishna approachedthe great one and gave Daruka the following instruction. “Swiftly go to the Kurus and tell Parthaabout this great destruction of the Yadus. On hearing about how the Yadavas have died because of thecurse of brahmanas, let Arjuna come here quickly.” Thus addressed, Daruka, who was senseless ingrief, left on a chariot for the Kurus. After Daruka left, Keshava saw that Babhru was still near himand spoke these words. “Go quickly and protect the women. Greedy for riches, let the bandits notcause any violence to them.” He was still intoxicated with liquor and distressed because of theslaughter of his relatives. However, instructed by Keshava, he departed. Babhru had gone only a shortdistance away from Keshava. He has also been covered in the curse of the brahmanas. Suddenly andswiftly, a club released from a hunter’s hand arrived and slew him. On seeing that Babhru was nowdead, Krishna spoke these words to his elder brother. “O Rama! Wait here for me, until I have handedover the care of the women to our kin.” Janardana entered the city of Dvaravati and spoke these wordsto his father. “Wait for Dhananjaya’s arrival and protect all these women. Rama is waiting for me onthe outskirts of the forest. I have to go to him now. I foresaw this slaughter of the Yadus even before Iforesaw that of the kings and the bulls among the Kuru lineage. Without the Yadus, I am incapable oflooking at this city of the Yadavas. Listen to me. I will go to the forest and practise austerities,together with Rama.” Having said this, Krishna touched his feet with his head and quickly departed.‘Loud sounds of lamentation arose from the women and the children who were in the city. Hearingthe sounds of the weeping women, Keshava returned and said, “Savyasachi will arrive in the city. Thatforemost among men will free you from your grief.” Ke

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That scene is more specific in CE. Satyaki and Pradyumna started the trouble, nor Kritavarma. After insults were thrown, Satyaki tried to goad Krishna. It didn't work. Satyabhama went and sat on his lap. I don't know what made her imagine Krishna could be prodded into killing by that act, but she apparently did. But it didn't work, either.

Satyaki then started killing people. Krishna tried to stop him. Pradyumna was helping SATYAKI, not his own father figure who was trying to stop the fight. Both Satyaki and Pradyumna got killed.

This was when Krishna got angry and slaughtered the rest.

@Red. I wonder what happened to Satyabhama. Text doen't mention her leaving with Krishna, Daruka, and Babhru.

@Blue. So Krishna didn't foresee his death as is popularly thought. As per Bhagavatham, he simply disappeared with Arjuna's help.

Actually, even MBh doesn't say Krishna died.

CE, Vol 10, 1983 (5)

asudeva possessed divine sight. When his brother had departed, he knew that everyone was gone.For some time, he wandered around in that desolate forest, thinking. The greatly energetic one thensat down on the ground. He thought about all the words that the excellent Gandhari had spoken to himearlier. Krishna also remembered what Durvasa had said when his body had been smeared withpayasam.28 The great one thought about the destruction of the Andhakas and the Vrishnis and thedestruction of the Kurus. Having decided that the time had come, he restrained his senses. Herestrained his senses and his speech. Krishna lay down, immersed in great yoga. A fierce hunternamed Jara arrived at that spot, searching for deer.29 The hunter saw Keshava lying down in yoga andtook him to be a deer. With an arrow, Jara swiftly struck him on the sole of the foot. He then quicklyadvanced, desiring to seize what he had struck. The hunter saw a man immersed in yoga, with manyarms and attired in yellow garments. He thought he had committed a grave sin and severely distressed, touched his feet with his head. The great-souled one comforted him. Enveloping heavenand earth in his prosperity, he rose upwards. He reached heaven and was welcomed by Vasava, theAshvins, Rudra, the Adityas, the Vasus, the Vishvadevas, the sages, the siddhas, the foremost amonggandharvas and the apsaras. O king! Then, the fiercely energetic, powerful, undecaying, great-souledand illustrious Narayana went to his own region, which is impossible to fathom. O king! Krishna metthe gods, the rishis and the charanas. The best among gandharvas and apsaras and the siddhas and thesadhyas bowed down and worshipped him. O king! The gods, the best among sages and their eloquentfollowers worshipped the lord of everything. The gandharvas served and praised him. Delighted,Puruhuta30 also honoured him.’

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There is a huge description of Vasudeva's funeral rites. About Balrama and Krishna, text just says Arjuna searched out bodies and had them cremated by men who did such stuff. No funeral for Krishna?

I think Bhagavatham has it right. Krishna decided to leave, and Arjuna helped fake the death.

where did Krishna leave for though? the forest? And why would Arjun need to fake his death. It was a common thing to leave for the forest in those days

Originally posted by: naq5

where did Krishna leave for though? the forest? And why would Arjun need to fake his death. It was a common thing to leave for the forest in those days

Perhaps he didn't want to retire. He might've simply wanted out of all the politics.

The real time scene says he got up and left and went to that place which no one knew or some such.

I find it impossible to believe that Arjuna gave Vasudeva a grand funeral and just told cremation men to cremate Krishna's body. Bhagavatham actually says Krishna disappeared in front of Arjuna.

There is no swargarohini for Pandavas in Bhagavatham. They just leave. Panchali and Subhadra die in the palace.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Perhaps he didn't want to retire. He might've simply wanted out of all the politics.

The real time scene says he got up and left and went to that place which no one knew or some such.

I find it impossible to believe that Arjuna gave Vasudeva a grand funeral and just told cremation men to cremate Krishna's body. Bhagavatham actually says Krishna disappeared in front of Arjuna.

There is no swargarohini for Pandavas in Bhagavatham. They just leave. Panchali and Subhadra die in the palace.

Krishna could have actually not died/left the world. After the massacre, he would have actually been completely repelled by royality, it made him have witness so much blood shell twice, hence he might have simply walked out n Arjun helped him do that.

But then the wives who committed Sati were at no fault, they were given a wrong picture. In this case their deaths are on Krishna n maybe slightly on Arjun. I fail to believe that both would have had let that happen knowing that Krishna was alive

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Krishna could have actually not died/left the world. After the massacre, he would have actually been completely repelled by royality, it made him have witness so much blood shell twice, hence he might have simply walked out n Arjun helped him do that.

But then the wives who committed Sati were at no fault, they were given a wrong picture. In this case their deaths are on Krishna n maybe slightly on Arjun. I fail to believe that both would have had let that happen knowing that Krishna was alive

The wives:

Vasudeva dies. Arjuna gives him a grand funeral. His wives commit sati in his pyre.

Krishna's body is supposedly cremated without anyone present. Arjuna just instructs a couple of men to cremate the remains.

At that time, there is no talk of Krishna's wives committing sati.

Arjuna takes them Hastinapuri and is attacked by thieves.

Text specifically says some women were abducted, and some went willingly with them "The best of Yadava women" were taken by robbers. That's when Rukmini and Jambavati (who is called Shaibya here) kill themselves. Satyabhama and others go to the forest.

Ie, not Sati as such. If you're willing to believe Krishna's wives somehow escaped abduction, then they either died or retired after seeing Arjuna could not protect them. If you believe (as I do) that the part was placed there to hide Arjuna's failure to protect, then those ladies were either killed or abducted by robbers.

In either case, it was not Sati.

So Krishna disappearing did not lead to Sati for them. I do believe Krishna just left because he was sick of the whole thing. Wouldn't blame him, either.

i want to know the story behind Krishna as a child hiding clothes of women who came to bathe in the river. How true is this. or is it just a folkfore

Originally posted by: naq5

i want to know the story behind Krishna as a child hiding clothes of women who came to bathe in the river. How true is this. or is it just a folkfore

I think it is there in Sreemad Bhagwatam

I actually want to know more about it. Please someone share your inputs what do you think of it

well ive seen memes on internet as to how it amounts to molestation of the women whose clothes were hidden. And krishna dosent seem that sort of character

Originally posted by: naq5

i want to know the story behind Krishna as a child hiding clothes of women who came to bathe in the river. How true is this. or is it just a folkfore

Sadly, yes. It is a part of Bhagavatham. There are lots of divine interps for it.

I'm going to discount all divinity and remind peeps that Krishna was a teenager when he killed Kamsa. Ie, Krishna was even younger when the clothes stealing took place.

Of course, it was bad. But he wasn't born a feminist. I assume the growth happened as he saw what the world was like. He later married Yamuna who was assaulted by Balram. I believe Jambavati was also a victim of Balram's. In fact, I think Samba was Balram's son because Bhagavatham refers to him as Lakshmana's father-in-law. Krishna also declared all of Naraka's concubines to be his wives.

From MBh: my God, he promises genocide in retaliation for what the Kauravas did to Panchali. No one else, including her brothers and Pandavas, went that far. Heck, even Krishna never went that far for anyone else which is why I ended up believing he had a thing for her in addition to his very evident rescuer mentality.

My conclusion is that yes, Krishna was as unthinking as any adolescent boy. He then learned his lesson through life experiences and became a champion of women.

Except, Subhadra. I just can't wrap my head around a brother encouraging a sister's abduction no matter what the political circumstances. Still, it was Arjuna. So I assume Krishna believed she'd be happy.