~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 35

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

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Let take this one by one.

He was raising abhimanyu and latter his son so that they can ally with his heir - vajra right??

And before the campaign could begin yadava massacre happened right and krishna died ?? Right .

And we are believing that prativindhya had sons and grandsons right??

Then the question arises that why didn't yudhishtra crowned his grandson i.e, prativindhya s son as king to hastinapur after him?? That has been my question all along.

Yudhishtir ruled a big area he just divided it into parts and gave something to every grandson so that Kaurav Pandav kind of situation does not reemerge

We cant consider PMs as emperor because of the federal structure of governance. He cannot appoint or control the appointment of chief ministers. They are independently elected

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Yes I used to think so till the time I didn't read and analyse further. Aside even if there was a close bond it was only with Arjun. Maybe he wasn't much for Arjun's death, since anyway being younger to Duryodhan, and even Dushy he was very less of a threat to them. Anyhow with two sons already dead (had they succeeded), Kunti would have herself removed Arjun from any contendership or at least that's what majority would have thought.

Bheeshm didn't have much time before DronAshram anyway and Kunti Vidur were over cautious to save them. DronAshram again a Brahmin area where Bheeshm had very limited influence.

And even if I agree Vidur n Kunti were not strong enough to blame Duryodhan, but what stopped them from saying that Bheem was poisoned and they have no idea who did that? In any neutral house (not even a palace) if the patriarch is neutral the mere poisoning of a grandson would be taken very seriously

Can you tell me what protected 5 kids and Kunti from a murder attempt?

A Prime Minister of India was assassinated by her bodyguards, The Prime Minister who had much more protection than 5 kids

You see Bhishma didn't have to do it himself, The King was involved too, all it took was 2 men and a night, none near them when they scream, Vidur lived in a different palace where Krishna stayed when he went for peace treaty

Bhishma and Dhruti were the law and military of Hastinapur, 5 Pandavas didn't have anyone's protection, they weren't trained at this point, their education with Kripa was yet to commence

Would it have been same for Pandavas without Bhishma? Dhruti would have killed them to protect his son's interest, Bhishma's presence stopped him from attempting anything like this, if Bhishma and Dhruti wanted Pandavas would be dead, throw in 2-3 sons of Dhruti for sympathy, worth the Throne

Originally posted by: Chiillii

We cant consider PMs as emperor because of the federal structure of governance. He cannot appoint or control the appointment of chief ministers. They are independently elected

@ chiilii

Thnks for ur answer

What ur views on upandavas & Abhimanyu ?

Was Abhimanyu elder to upandavas ?

What I read is prativindhya was eldest to upandavas & Abhimanyu was younger 2 four upandavas & elder than srutakriti arjun Draupadi's son.

Order of upandavas

Prativindhya, then nakul's son, bheem, Sahdev & arjun

This i read, what ur views on that ?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Yudhishtir ruled a big area he just divided it into parts and gave something to every grandson so that Kaurav Pandav kind of situation does not reemerge

Yudhishtir by then had become throne warmer for Parikshit. There was a long gap between war and Yadava fratricide. Time enough for Parikshit to grow up and Praticindhyas son to make peace with his situation.

Krishna had achieved the God status by the time Parikshit came to power. Yadavas and vaishnavas were very influential. So Prativindhya and other uppandava children were pushed out to their mother's families and given small holdings there to live by. Prativindhya had his holdings in Sauvira.Satanika had it in Panchal.

Yudhishtir had already lost his son to the throne. And millions died iN Kuru war. Then he saw Yadavas killing each other and their children coming as refugees.

I think that was enough for him to realise that let things be. And not sow the seeds of a new war. Between Prativindhya's children and Parikshit.

In any case his daughter's son Vajra was being given IP as home.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Can you tell me what protected 5 kids and Kunti from a murder attempt?

A Prime Minister of India was assassinated by her bodyguards, The Prime Minister who had much more protection than 5 kids

You see Bhishma didn't have to do it himself, The King was involved too, all it took was 2 men and a night, none near them when they scream, Vidur lived in a different palace where Krishna stayed when he went for peace treaty

Bhishma and Dhruti were the law and military of Hastinapur, 5 Pandavas didn't have anyone's protection, they weren't trained at this point, their education with Kripa was yet to commence

Would it have been same for Pandavas without Bhishma? Dhruti would have killed them to protect his son's interest, Bhishma's presence stopped him from attempting anything like this, if Bhishma and Dhruti wanted Pandavas would be dead, throw in 2-3 sons of Dhruti for sympathy, worth the Throne

That Prime Minister's Body Guard was involved. The unofficial body guard for these five was not. They knew the lives was in danger and were always cautious.

Sudden death of all five together would have raised suspicion they didn't want that is what stopped them from direct assault. The death had to look like a natural death and was needed to take place in some interval from one another's

@Bold had that been the case, Bheeshm wouldn't have been kept in dark of the murder attempt, he would have been the Pratham Poojya at Yudhishtir Sabha without any further discussion, he would have had the knowledge of Varnavrat escape (if you say he did and yet got Duryodhan Crowned, its clear that Pandavas were very easily dispensable for him)

Prativindhya was definetly older.. Draupadi had atleast 4 years to have children before Narada arrived and made the rule of exile and almost 2 years more before Abhimanyu was born. That is 6 years if Arjun went on a 12 month exile.

If Arjun went for 12 year exile, which is unlikely that makes 17 years for Draupadi to have children.

Brahmacharya was for Arjun and even he didnt follow it. Why would Draupadi and Yudhishtir follow it.

Even if Draupadi had suthanu first she had ample time to have Prativindhya and atleast 1 more child before Abhimanyu was born

If Prativindhya was Devika's then too he must be born before Abhimanyu. Irrespective of whether Yudhishtir marries her before lakshagriha or after Draupadi

In any scenario you look at Prativindhya is older than Abhimanyu

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

That Prime Minister's Body Guard was involved. The unofficial body guard for these five was not. They knew the lives was in danger and were always cautious.

Sudden death of all five together would have raised suspicion they didn't want that is what stopped them from direct assault. The death had to look like a natural death and was needed to take place in some interval from one another's

@Bold had that been the case, Bheeshm wouldn't have been kept in dark of the murder attempt, he would have been the Pratham Poojya at Yudhishtir Sabha without any further discussion, he would have had the knowledge of Varnavrat escape (if you say he did and yet got Duryodhan Crowned, its clear that Pandavas were very easily dispensable for him)

I really don't think that a Kingdom with all Powers couldn't kill 5 kids, today law is separate from Legislature still there are political murders without implication, Councilor was involved in murder of opposition leader and none can do anything because he belongs to the ruling party. There was this guy who killed a man with a sword running around on roads, so many eyewitnesses but not a single FIR against him, because he is Bahubali of his area

Bhishma and Dhruti were both laws and powers, If they wanted Pandavas dead they would have been dead, people would wonder if they did it but throw in 2-3 kids of Kauravas and get sympathy, its not even worth thinking 2 times. Pandavas were absolutely powerless

Anyone saying the King did it, would have been tried for treason, we have democracy now and people are elected on basis of one night and abundance of alcohol with cash flowing then they weren't answerable to their people, Sages had limited support, no sage would ask for evidence if Bhishma and King tell him that Pandavas died in an attack

I don't understand why you think Bhishma with Dhruti couldn't kill 5 kids?

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I really don't think that a Kingdom with all Powers couldn't kill 5 kids, today law is separate from Legislature still there are political murders without implication, Councilor was involved in murder of opposition leader and none can do anything because he belongs to the ruling party. There was this guy who killed a man with a sword running around on roads, so many eyewitnesses but not a single FIR against him, because he is Bahubali of his area

Bhishma and Dhruti were both laws and powers, If they wanted Pandavas dead they would have been dead, people would wonder if they did it but throw in 2-3 kids of Kauravas and get sympathy, its not even worth thinking 2 times. Pandavas were absolutely powerless

Anyone saying the King did it, would have been tried for treason, we have democracy now and people are elected on basis of one night and abundance of alcohol with cash flowing then they weren't answerable to their people, Sages had limited support, no sage would ask for evidence if Bhishma and King tell him that Pandavas died in an attack

I don't understand why you think Bhishma with Dhruti couldn't kill 5 kids?

You are right, the times then was very different from then, the sages back then had immense power. Any king needed their support to continue the rule

When Astik approached Janamejay to stop the Nahmedh, he was accompanied by saints, and that was the precise reason why Janmayey had to hear him (although many saints were also supporting Janmayey to carry out the Yagya)

There was no way they could have simply killed the kids and escaped. The sages could have simply led a public usurp.

The plan was to get them dead separately so that the death looks natural

And you are saying a PM was murdered, many have been murdered, but there are also multiple murder attempts that have been foiled, just we don't get to know about it, Pandavas were lucky and had a good protector

Anyhow I guess we are going in circles, we both agree that Bheeshm preferred Dury over Pandavas. We both agree that Bheeshm was not so much of a confidant to Pandavas that he could be told about the murder attempts, we know that Bheeshm himself agreed of Duryodhan crowning and was actually not vocal (unlike Vidur) during Dice Hall. The epic is clear on what Bheeshm thought of woman with premarital affairs, and that Bheeshm knew about Karna being Kunti's son. Post that you want to think Bheeshm wasn't involved in conspiracy against Pandavas just because he wasn't successful then that's ok, but for me joining all the points together clearly indicate that he was very much aware of every plan

If u guys had seen brc mahabharat when pandavas went 2 exile, after 13 days vidur said as it is written in scriptures for special reason 13 days can be considered as 13 yrs so he suggested drishrastra to call upon Pandavas but drishrastra scolded vidur & 4 pandavas excluding Yudi were ready 2 comeback & fight kauravs but Yudi refused as he said he will only go after 13 yrs.