Mahabharat Retelecast Discussion Thread 3 - Page 37

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FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

Yes, Samba raped Lakshmana.


Krishna refused to go to his son's rescue. Balram eventually did. Suyodhana agreed to marry her to Lakshmana.


The same Samba went on to cause the destruction of his entire clan.

Muoplg

So indirectly it was Balram who caused the destruction of the clan.

But definitely Balram isn't to be completely blamed, Duryodhan equally is, if it was only Balram's threat that made Duryodhan marry Samb+Lakshmana, why was Samb kept alive till the time Balram reached


In Normal circumstances, any man in custody of the man whose daughter he just r**ed molested would be killed within hours. I think Duryodhan himself wanted Krishna/Balram to reach out to him for Samb's freedom and he negotiates a marriage


Removing divinity, I am shocked why Krishna didn't kill his son. For a man who went to so much heights for the molesteration of a woman completely ignored the same fate of another just because the culprit was his son

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

So indirectly it was Balram who caused the destruction of the clan.

But definitely Balram isn't to be completely blamed, Duryodhan equally is, if it was only Balram's threat that made Duryodhan marry Samb+Lakshmana, why was Samb kept alive till the time Balram reached


In Normal circumstances, any man in custody of the man whose daughter he just r**ed molested would be killed within hours. I think Duryodhan himself wanted Krishna/Balram to reach out to him for Samb's freedom and he negotiates a marriage


Removing divinity, I am shocked why Krishna didn't kill his son. For a man who went to so much heights for the molesteration of a woman completely ignored the same fate of another just because the culprit was his son


1. He might've thought exactly what you did. That Suyodhana would execute Samba.


2. Once rescued, Samba was actually safe from Krishna. Ugrasena, Vasudeva, and Balram ruled the roost in Dwaraka


3. After the couple got married, killing Samba would've made things worse for Lakshmana.


I also happen to think Samba was Balram's son. Recommend reading the Syamantaka/Jambavan episode as well as Balram/Yamuna encounter and drawing your conclusions

naq5 thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9


I feel it was injustice to curse lord krishna , he was not responsible for d war , he knew war will happen still came as peace messanger , gave many changes before duet sabha to kauravs 2 mend their ways but in d end it was he who was cursed without any fault .

yes why curse him for the faults of her own children. it was not he who started the war.

Upar se i hate people who give curses. weak people who cannot do anything resort to cursing.😡 i find it very disgusting. i hate Gandhari for this.

Why did Krishna even accept her curse. ive read somewhere that she had gone to Yudi and bhima and both sent her away then she came to krishna.

naq5 thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


Recommend reading 5 scenes.


1. Krishna/Panchali conversation in Kamyaka. She details all the crimes done by the enemy and finally states how they could do it even to someone of HER stature. Star MBh gave this line to Krishna. If they could do it to her, imagine them in power. In epic, it was Panchali who said it to Krishna.


2. Panchali's discourse with Yudhishtira in Kamyaka. He assigns everything to destiny, and she tells him over and over that blaming destiny is not the answer. Their duty is "karma," and their karma as kshatriyas was just rule which included punishment for crimes. She agrees with Yudhishtira that forgiveness is good but only under specific circumstances. She makes it clear that forgiveness is reserved for an enemy WHO REPENTS. For her pains, Yudhishtira calls her an atheist. Finally, Vyasa comes and agrees with what Panchali said without even giving an explanation (basically, war is needed), and Yudhishtira concurs!😆 So yeah... her point was that it was their duty.


3. Post Jayadratha. She firmly tells the Pandavas any enemy who would go as far as to abduct a woman with intend o rape needs to be put to death. Yudhishtira disagrees. Pandavas split the difference. In retrospect, she was right. This perhaps was what prompted Arjuan to make a vow to kill Jayadratha. Perhaps he remembered what Panchali said. Perhaps he realized Abhimanyu would have been alive had they followed her instructions,


4. Keechaka. Panchali goes to Virat for help, an when he refuses, she scolds him on the duties of thing.


5. Udyoga Parva conversation with Krishna. She again tells him the duties of rulers. She actually says it would be a sin not to punish UNREPENTED crimes. She also reminds him of the assault on her.


____________________________________


Her conversations make it clear she believed the assault on her indicated the enemy's unfitness to rule. She clearly believed she had the responsibility of punishing them. An argument can be made whether one assault is indicative. She lists all their crimes to show how far the enemy is willing to go to obtain power.


It wasn't personal justice.


Even if it were... one of the arguments I have heard is this: was one woman's trauma worth it? My answer is two-fold. As Panchali says, the enemy was unrepentant. Which means as rulers, they were not prepared to dole punishment for such crimes. Which means the system was rotten and needed to come down. What is the magic number where it becomes not all right to perpetuate the rotten system which let rape and murder continue? Remember, these were the rulers themselves committing the assault. What would be the number under the circumstances? 1 million rapes? 100,000? 100? Isn't one enough when it's a ruler?


Yes, there were ordinary soldiers as well. But there were the lame and the old who came to fight on Pandava side. Clearly, they saw injustice on the other side, enough to move them to fight. So while I'm willing to buy Kaurava soldiers had no choice to some extent, there WERE people who exercised that choice and went to the Pandavas. Also, the lives of the women assaulted were surely not less important than the lives of the soldiers.


Also, remember Lakshmana. Her rape was forgiven by her family and apparently by herself. See what eventually happened to Yadavas. Because of Samba, one entire clan perished. If Suyodhana had punished Samba, if he'd been willing to go to war for his daughter, then perhaps the extended clan would've been left alive.

I agree with all this.

that is why it is said to report a rapist and a molester so that he dosent do it with others.

Wasnt there an option of punishing dury and co without the war.

I feel bad that draupadi had to loose her sons in all this and also many innocents their lives. She was the one who was not at fault in all this yet has to loose everything.

1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: naq5

I agree with all this.

that is why it is said to report a rapist and a molester so that he dosent do it with others.

Wasnt there an option of punishing dury and co without the war.

I feel bad that draupadi had to loose her sons in all this and also many innocents their lives. She was the one who was not at fault in all this yet has to loose everything.


They tried. Many times. Panchali didn't say a word in objection all the times people were sent with peace proposals. Finally, when Krishna got ready to go, she lost it. Even then, she said to him fight if the enemy doesn't repent. He also says the same... if the enemy doesn't repent.


Punishing Suyodhana and gang alone was not possible because Bheeshma and Drona protected the villains.

AninditaB thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Star Yudhisthir and his love for the phrase "Kshama kijiye ga" 🤣.

FlauntPessimism thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar


They tried. Many times. Panchali didn't say a word in objection all the times people were sent with peace proposals. Finally, when Krishna got ready to go, she lost it. Even then, she said to him fight if the enemy doesn't repent. He also says the same... if the enemy doesn't repent.


Punishing Suyodhana and gang alone was not possible because Bheeshma and Drona protected the villains.

If only she could have somehow also got a way to actually punish Yudhishtir.

And it was only she, her brothers, Krishna and maybe Sahdev who were fighting for her justice, rest everyone was more into getting back their land


BTW I wonder if Five Pandavas were alone capable of defeating one of the mightiest States of the time (Panchal), why did they think to spent their time as beggars after Varnavrat? They could have taken over a small state (even Ekchakranagri) and start ruling it


Kauravas wouldn't have the courage to declare a war over them if for nothing else then for face saving

NoraSM thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

🙃

Some people attacked Dury and Karna in Van, I think that was the best possible way to eliminate almost everyone who wronged Draupadi, instead Pandavas protected them


Dushashan was there too, who's left?

Edited by NoraSM - 5 years ago
1123225 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: NoraSM

🙃

Some people attacked Dury and Karna in Van, I think that was the best possible way to eliminate almost everyone who wronged Draupadi, instead Pandavas protected them


Dushashan was there too, who's left?


Yudhishtira says hello.

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