Your thoughts on... Karn? - Page 22

Originally posted by: prerna4rishav

That is confusing, because he just clarifies that in the previous narration that he did strung it. But regardless, her swayamvar, she can decide whom she wants to marry. If a different reason given by her, that could be better.

Even if she stopped him for his clan ( highly unlikely) it was her choice, what makes Karna eligible to insult her in public

Originally posted by: Eloquent

In no Yuga was calling a woman a w**** considered ok and as per "dharma".

FYI - In Satya, Treta, Dwapar Yugas, polyandry was on par with polygamy. One instance of Madhavi (daughter of either Yayati/Nahusha..I don't exactly recall who) comes to mind. She was married to four men & no one called her a w****.

Be that as it may, Shri Krishna, considered to be the divine avatar of Vishnu in the Dwapar Yuga condemns Karna for this very sentence and it is one amongst the many reasons that Krishna is ultimately against Karna and the Kauravas. Krishna damns Karna in Dwapar Yuga for the Dyut Sabha scene in which Karna was not a mere spectator like Bhishma et al but he was an active participant on par with Duryodhana and Dussasana. Go figure.

I'm shocked that a character calling a woman a w**** is being defended in the 21st century.

Karna disgusts me. Character less.

Sure, Polyandry was as common and prevalent as Polygamy. EOD. 👍🏼

Originally posted by: prerna4rishav

My bad, I should have mentioned that in no way I am justifying Karna's lewd comments on Drau for the sake of revenge to Pandavas. Any issues with Pandavas taunts, should be cleared with them and not Drau. But I do take it that Drau mentioned his caste after he was able to string the bow, which was unacceptable, but also acceptable as her swayamvar. My comments on his beef with Pandavas was more on the replies here where I see people wonder Karna was jealous of Arjuna/ill-wisher of Pandavas for no specific reason.

Well he didn't have any reason. Please show me where Arjun has insulted Karna (for no reason). There is one scene where Bheem called him suthaputra. And okay, accepted that he did wrong.

About Drau's comment, well it is very much an interpolation. Suta is again not a low caste to behin with and almost all versions state Karna FAILED, even KMG has a contradiction which I mentioned with proper quotes. I don't know how Drau is being held accountable here.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Well he didn't have any reason. Please show me where Arjun has insulted Karna (for no reason). There is one scene where Bheem called him suthaputra. And okay, accepted that he did wrong.

About Drau's comment, well it is very much an interpolation. Suta is again not a low caste to behin with and almost all versions state Karna FAILED, even KMG has a contradiction which I mentioned with proper quotes. I don't know how Drau is being held accountable here.

I compare it with acid attack victims being blamed for having acid thrown on them due to them rejecting their oppressor when they proposed. Typical sick mentality.

Ofcourse here, there was no rejection in itself as per both KMG & more importantly BORI, which moots the point.

However I would like to go back and ask, even if we reject KMG/BORI & consider D rejecting K:

1. One version mentions "Naaham varaami sutaputra" - i will not marry a Sutaputra. Here, however arrogant, it is Draupadi's "swayam" var ceremony and she certainly has right to decide on her own marriage.

2. With this rejection, can it justify what Karna did to Draupadi? She gives a single line "I will not wed a Sutaputra". He vomits out a lot of trash about her in Dyut Sabha - calling her a w****, ordering her disrobing, verbally duelling with Vikarna who was defending Draupadi, telling her to be with any of the Kauravas in an extremely lewd way.

In what way can one event justify the other more horrible event? Can it redeem his character?

Why should I as a viewer/reader care what daan he has purportedly given or not given when he has already given this vile "daan" of opening his mouth in the Dyut Sabha? Who cares how great an archer he is or isn't?!

Originally posted by: Poorabhforever

Actually what some karna fans fail to reliaze here that there are some things which can never never be justified no matter what karna was morinic jerk and that s a fact. Drapaudi was highly respected empress if Aryavarth and nobody had any problem with polyandrous wedding expect from that jerk. Who sadly had a sick mentality.

I am sick sick that how people are ever ready to justify that shit piece of a human being 🤬

There i said that man was piece of a garbage.

A good warrior perhaps but with absolutely no morals...He couldn’t even be loyal to his own friend and have betrayed him by sparing the other 4 Pandavas....Pitamah and Dronacharya were at least open and honest about their bias , Karan couldn’t even be honest to his friend and secretly betrayed him! In fact he was never a good friend...A good friend is the one who stops his beloved friend from making mistakes...Here Karan not just silently took part in every evil, he even became the reason behind Draupadi’s cheer haran - in being the first one who actually comes up with the evil idea of bringing her to the Sabha....🤢

The Nayak and Maha Nayak of Mahabharata are Arjun and Krishna...Period!

Originally posted by: prerna4rishav

We judge Arjun based on the Dwapar Yuga rules that he could not speak up against Elder Brother, because that was the norm back then. But we would judge Karna's comments on calling Drau a 'w****' based on today's times because that is what is convenient to us😆. A woman being married to 5 men WAS an unusual event and based on THOSE times, Karna's words would not seem out of place.

Not supporting his encouragement in disrobing Drau, that was disgusting. But one can clearly see how much the 'abhimaan' of Kshatriyas bothered him by then. That happened due to multiple taunts and resistances from this same group in various occasions. I follow KMG, so I would take that Drau's comments, Arjun and Bhimsen's repeated comments on his caste indeed happened. So it doesnt matter how loving his parents are, the caste did bother him, because the 'proud' Pandavas made sure one never forgets that, which was disgusting. So it's not a question to Karna that 'why don't you settle with your parents', rather the question is to the Pandavas, that why don't they let one be with their caste, why did they everytime have to bring his caste into the picture whenever it clashed with Karna's 'ucchakaankshya'.

Regardless of which yuga they belong to, a human being will be judged for speaking like that....He was judged right then and there by each and every sane person in that Sabha....What is your point even? BTW A woman being married to 5 men is not normal even today..#justsaying.😆

On one hand you are saying you weren’t supporting his disgusting behavior during the dice game but your every argument in the above post is pointing otherwise....I mean seriously? During those times according to you, it was ok to call a woman ‘wh***’ but not okay to point at the caste of a person? 🤔

Originally posted by: cricketfan1

A good warrior perhaps but with absolutely no morals...He couldn’t even be loyal to his own friend and have betrayed him by sparing the other 4 Pandavas....Pitamah and Dronacharya were at least open and honest about their bias , Karan couldn’t even be honest to his friend and secretly betrayed him! In fact he was never a good friend...A good friend is the one who stops his beloved friend from making mistakes...Here Karan not just silently took part in every evil, he even became the reason behind Draupadi’s cheer haran - in being the first one who actually comes up with the evil idea of bringing her to the Sabha....🤢

The Nayak and Maha Nayak of Mahabharata are Arjun and Krishna...Period!

Exactly that promise was betrayal. Fair and square. I don't think he ever intended to do something for duryodhan his aim in life was always to kill arjun so that he can become the foremost archer.

I agree krishna was mahanayak. Though i would like to disagree about nayak as if arjun has his moments so does bheem. And no matter how much i dislike him so does yudhishtra it was ultimately his jaya. And duryodhan s ajaya.

The only two characters who i think did really stood up were krishna and krishnaa ( drapaudi). It is they who were always pandavas guiding light and they who came to pandavas rescue at the crucial junctures plus it was panchali s jaya too as much as it was yudhishtra

Vyasa s mahanayak and mahanayika respectively

Can someone please cite the repeated comments made by Pandavas to insult Karna BEFORE dice hall?

I know of exactly one. That was when Karna trespassed on an battle tactics exhibition exclusively meant for the Kuru princes. Besides that, where else did Pandavas insult Karna?

Karna, OTOH, went on to conspire with Suyodhana to burn down Kunti and her sons.

The comment by Panchali was included in 0.25% of all manuscripts reviewed by BORI. Even if a reader takes KMG as gospel truth, she only said she will not wed a sutha which she had full rights to say. She didn't insult him for being a sutha, and she didn't insult suthas as a group.

Equating her decision on her own groom to planning and executing a sexual assault are not even remotely comparable.

And yes, sexual assault was a crime in Iron Age, too, not just in today's times. By the morality of any age, Karna committed a crime.

After dice hall, Karna deserved a lot worse than name calling.

And btw, there is a 6 or 7 page rant by Karna on the loathsomeoness (in his view) of castes lower to him. If for one incident of Bheema calling Karna a suthaputhra (while he was trespassing at a family event) and for Panchali's (interpolated) rejection, Karna's life of crime was justified, how much more should he have paid for the lines upon lines of blatant bigotry?

Originally posted by: cricketfan1

Regardless of which yuga they belong to, a human being will be judged for speaking like that....He was judged right then and there by each and every sane person in that Sabha....What is your point even? BTW A woman being married to 5 men is not normal even today..#justsaying.😆

On one hand you are saying you weren’t supporting his disgusting behavior during the dice game but your every argument in the above post is pointing otherwise....I mean seriously? During those times according to you, it was ok to call a woman ‘wh***’ but not okay to point at the caste of a person? 🤔

If you read the posts carefully, I have compared Arjun's silence with Karna's lewd remarks, Arjun's crooked sense of 'Dharma' with Karna's adharm. Calling Drau names dharm or adharm isn't even a question.


The man who won her in Swayamvar, the man who thought she could be put at 'stake', those 5 men who are known to be Maharathi, yet reduced to mute puppets in that Dyut Sabha, are equally Adharmi to me than the one who ordered disrobing her. So, Krishna is, was and will be the Mahanayaka of MB, but Arjuna certainly is not the Nayak.


Drau's calling Karn Sutaputra or not, has nothing to do with her disrobing, because that comment doesn't justify Karn's actions. As I already clarified, my reference to Drau and Pandavas taunts on Karn's 'sutaputra' was to do with Karn's feeling jealous of Pandavas all the time.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Well he didn't have any reason. Please show me where Arjun has insulted Karna (for no reason). There is one scene where Bheem called him suthaputra. And okay, accepted that he did wrong.

About Drau's comment, well it is very much an interpolation. Suta is again not a low caste to behin with and almost all versions state Karna FAILED, even KMG has a contradiction which I mentioned with proper quotes. I don't know how Drau is being held accountable here.

Juggling btwn things right now. Will give the context as soon as i can. KMG does hve contradiction.