Kunti and karna - Page 7

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

In that case, what's wrong w/ what Dury, Dushashan, Karna or Shakuni did either? They used their victor status in the dice game as a weapon as well!

After victory, there was no need for weapon, esp not to sexually assault a woman. That was pure malice.

Kunti did what she needed to do to keep the 5 men she considered sons safe. She didn't go to Karna's wife to gloat, nor did she ask the Pandavas to assault Vrushali/Padmavati/Uruvi/whatever her name was.

Somehow, the geography of where Kuntidesh was, where Karna was born, the river that ran thru it, upto the point where Karna's basket was discovered, would have to be laid out to butress your claims. I didn't see that in your description above.

Also, Champa was a territory next to Magadha and Anga that Jarasandha gifted Karna: it's mentioned in Shanti Parva

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Somehow, the geography of where Kuntidesh was, where Karna was born, the river that ran thru it, upto the point where Karna's basket was discovered, would have to be laid out to butress your claims. I didn't see that in your description above.

Also, Champa was a territory next to Magadha and Anga that Jarasandha gifted Karna: it's mentioned in Shanti Parva

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Map_of_Vedic_India.png

I was looking for Jijith Nedumuri's wonderful maps, but he seems to have changed the website layout. I'll email him to find a better one.

He has a route map of Pandu's imperial conquest. Pandu gets very close to Anga. The following is pure conjecture: He conquered the part of Anga which was with Hatsinapuri. Suyodhana was merely returning to Karna what rightfully belonged to him in return for his support against Pandavas.

FYI. If I'm a fan of anyone in MBh, it's prob Vyasa and to some extent Narada. Their political manipulations were juicy to say the least. I find Karna irredeemable after dice hall, but he also happens to be the one of the most interesting characters for a writer.

All that was to say I didn't mean to offend you.

Found one

http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/travel:pandu-s-travels

I don't know how to post images here, so here's the link to Pandu's imperial campaign.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Map_of_Vedic_India.png

I was looking for Jijith Nedumuri's wonderful maps, but he seems to have changed the website layout. I'll email him to find a better one.

He has a route map of Pandu's imperial conquest. Pandu gets very close to Anga. The following is pure conjecture: He conquered the part of Anga which was with Hatsinapuri. Suyodhana was merely returning to Karna what rightfully belonged to him in return for his support against Pandavas.

FYI. If I'm a fan of anyone in MBh, it's prob Vyasa and to some extent Narada. Their political manipulations were juicy to say the least. I find Karna irredeemable after dice hall, but he also happens to be the one of the most interesting characters for a writer.

All that was to say I didn't mean to offend you.

Thanks for the maps: however...

How is Pandu's conquest maps in any way germane to the route that Karna's basket could have taken from Kuntidesh to wherever Adhirath lived? Most importantly, does the map show the path from Karna's birthplace to where Adhirath lived, which would be necessary to determine whether he could have credibly traveled that distance and still survived?

Also, I'm not offended. Although I do admit that I have a visceral reaction to Kunti, not b'cos of just Karna, but b'cos of having split loyalties b/w the Pandavas and Dhritarashtra. Another poster here used the late ISIS leader as a reference: I compare Kunti to Musharraf in the last decade, where he pretended to be on the US side in the 'war on terror' while actively supporting al Qaeda and the Taliban as well. That's what Kunti did: send a message thru Krishna instigating her sons, while refusing to join them until after the war and being on Dhritarashtra's side. And then going off w/ Dhritarashtra after he was offended by Bhima and decided to go into exile. At least Shalya was tricked into joining the Kauravas, whereas Kunti voluntarily stayed w/ them.

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Thanks for the maps: however...

How is Pandu's conquest maps in any way germane to the route that Karna's basket could have taken from Kuntidesh to wherever Adhirath lived? Most importantly, does the map show the path from Karna's birthplace to where Adhirath lived, which would be necessary to determine whether he could have credibly traveled that distance and still survived?

Also, I'm not offended. Although I do admit that I have a visceral reaction to Kunti, not b'cos of just Karna, but b'cos of having split loyalties b/w the Pandavas and Dhritarashtra. Another poster here used the late ISIS leader as a reference: I compare Kunti to Musharraf in the last decade, where he pretended to be on the US side in the 'war on terror' while actively supporting al Qaeda and the Taliban as well. That's what Kunti did: send a message thru Krishna instigating her sons, while refusing to join them until after the war and being on Dhritarashtra's side. And then going off w/ Dhritarashtra after he was offended by Bhima and decided to go into exile. At least Shalya was tricked into joining the Kauravas, whereas Kunti voluntarily stayed w/ them.

I meant... if we take the rational approach, there is no way a basket floated all that distance. I'm assuming a boat or some such.

Kunti is an extremely flawed character as is Karna. In her conversation with Krishna, she blames both kuntibhoj and Surasena for all the miseries in her life. I can only assume 1. Her resentment towards them was greater than her love for her sons 2. (less likely because Vidur was enough for this) she was spying on the Kurus.

Or as you said, she was playing both sides to save her own skin.

The last possibility makes her so flat as to be uninteresting. Almost Dusshasan like.

Re: map of Pandu's campaign. Since there is documentation that Anga belonged Athirath's family, it might've come under Kuru rule with Pandu's campaign. Karna's enmity to Pandavas is usually assigned to his jealousy of Arjuna. There likely was an element of that also, but he doesn't appear to have been dim to risk enmity without cause. What if there was a solid practical reason behind it? What if he were strategizing to get his kingdom back? Doesn't the fact he got the other part of Anga from Jarasandh also ring a bell?

I can't imagine he was motivated by one singular emotion almost all his life.