A few things about Draupadi, How true are they? - Page 10

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

I imagine accepting Subhadra would mean accepting Arjuna also.

Yeah that seems plausible

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

I don't believe in Arjun Draupadi lovestory either 😆 If it was ever there, not if it was a total strategic plan by Vyasa, but even if for few moments Arjun did have any romantic feeling towards Draupadi after winning her in Swayamvara & wearing the garland by her hands....it was bound to die the moment it was decided that all the 5 brothers are to marry her & she will be shared among them equally. After that, the trespassing & weapon retrieving fiasco happen & he went to exile, where he wondered about & married other wives 😆 He was hardly pining for Draupadi.

But I still believe Subhadra Arjun's marriage was more than just political alliance. Sure, it brought political alliance. But there was more to it.

Let's talk about men in general here. XD

Arjun knew that Draupadi was not alone his (Vyasa had already told them about Draupadi's past birth and that she would be married to 5 men). I believe Arjun was the one who went for the contest because only he would be able to win her. (Archery.)

So here, no romance was involved. Also, talking about men, Arjun didn't seem upset when he had to "share" his wife. It is also said that all five brothers lusted for her and it was true. All including Arjun was smitten by Drau.

If Arjun was so in love with Draupadi, he would not have gone around marrying other women. Yes, maybe all were not advanced by him, but he was definitely interested.

I am just trying to break this myth of Arjun having unparallel love for Draupadi and all other of his wives being ones he was not interested in.

Arjun saw Subhadra once, and he obviously was desirous of her and was smitten. He shows quite some eagerness to marry her (refer to quote above). He didn't ask for her hand by purpose yes, but Krishna only asked him if he wanted to marey when he REALIZED ARJUN WAS DESIROUS of her. So, no, Krishna wasn't only doing it for politics. He definitely went forward because he being onean saw the desires of another man. He was happy seeing it and wanted to use it in his favour where fhe politics come in.

Coming to cis men (considering Arjun one here) in general, any man would be more desirous and interested in a woman who was solely his as this also served his intellectual satisfaction. (IYKWIM) XD than a woman whom he himself won but yet needs to share with his brothers. Just some knowledge on men in general :P Pardon my "dhrishtata" :P

The thing is that characters are in story for a particular reason, Subhadra was added because she had to give an heir. Her being Arjun's love of life is same as Draupadi being the love of his life, Don't think they gave an insight into the romantic aspect of their relationships.

Arjun married after marrying Draupadi, if that negates the possibility of his love for her then his son with Draupadi was born after his marriage with Subhadra

I don't think concept of "The One" was a thing in a society where Krushna had multiple wives

All Pandava had other wives than Draupadi and everyone had to wait for 4 years to be with her, does that mean none was "In Love With Her"? Or she wasn't favorite wife of anyone?

Edit -

Arjun didn't do anything to protect a woman when she was being disrobed because of his blind love for his brother, so how can one say that he shared Draupadi because he didn't have any problem, who asked him to share Subhadra? The situation was completely different

Is it that Arjun would have refused to share Subhadra, if circumstances were the same?

Is it that Arjun didn't protect Draupadi because she wasn't his favorite wife or the woman he loved?

That goes to each one of the Pandavas, These theories can't be different for Arjun and his brothers because their condition was the same. The fact is that it was Draupadi who accompanied all of them to exile and on their trip to heaven, She was the only female character who got a feminist arc, One of the Principle characters

@Nora - The concept of love as we know today is different from the one back then. All of them loved her, maybe one loved her more than others. Some had other favourite wives. The story doesn't give much insight into their romantic lives and hence it is very difficult to judge on the basis of these things whom they preferred.

Apart from the fact that I think there is much evidence in the epic of Bheem loving and caring for Drau much more than the others.

Originally posted by: NoraSM

Draupadi had no such Condition. The condition doesn't make any sense because it means she is asking them to be celibate for 4 years when they are not with her.

You said Arjun favors Subhadra because he brought her home which wasn't the case with his two other wives, I simply provided that it wasn't because Arjun rejected his two other wives, he couldn't bring them for one reason or another. He didn't handpick his favorite wife to bring home, he could bring only her as other two had different circumstances than Subhadra.

Arjun felt desire for Chitra, Draupadi and Subhadra, He wanted to marry all of them, again what exactly is the difference between his treatment of his other 3 wives and Subhadra?

Krushna opted for Arjun because Abhimanyu wasn't going to be Yudhishtira or Bhim's son, Arjun was the Nar and Subhadra the Yogmaya.

Again, Subhadra did not accompany him to Exile, There are two theories on Subhadra after the great war

1 Krushna asked Arjun to push Subhadra in a lake or something where she died

2 She lived with Arjun, but after the great war, Uloopi and Chitra came to Hastinapur

The thing is that opinions of shippers and changes in script by Mahabharata are mocked by you too, then your vehement support of a love story is not making sense when there's no textual evidence

Chill. There's no need to get personal. I don't remember attacking you personally or analysing your behaviour so I would appreciate if you refrain from doing so too.

2ndly, I am not a shipper. Did I put in any theory as Arjun was madly in love with Subhadra & vice versa & they are some type of star crossed lover etc? I always maintained that by love I do not mean love as it is today. Among the many polygamous relations back then there was no scope for such love. But I believe it's very human nature to have favourites & by considering all things, I believe Subhadra was Arjun's. And I also asserted that it was my personal belief based on my analysis, nothing set in stone & you can very much have your different opinion. Are you implying that I can't have my own opinion or analyse incidents as I see it? Really?

3rdly, I do not mock other shippers & have mocked only Star Plus' representation of few parts of the Mahabharat. Mahabharat, as I know, is a vast territory. The original Mahabharat was only about 8000 slokas long. With time, there were many additions which led it to be as lengthy as 120000 slokas. From this, a critical edition was released by Bori & then KMG's Mahabharat is also considered a standard version. But apart from them there are many other versions which are popular and widely accepted. It's a quite tough task to know what's the original scripture says or analyse it as it was meant to be in the original scripture. If it was so easy, there wouldn't have been so many other versions. People are fascinated by it & have tried to retell the saga so many times. I frown upon when things go so haywire that they do not match even these alternative narrations either, which Star Plus's Mahabharat & few other tv serials did many times. I do not consider myself a know-it-all about Mahabharat as I have not read the original scripture & I am interested in knowing more or less everything related to it. My opinions & beliefs are based on the widely known & popular versions which I have read / heard about and I always maintain that one is free to disagree with it. Where did I mock others for having their own opinion?

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

@Nora - The concept of love as we know today is different from the one back then. All of them loved her, maybe one loved her more than others. Some had other favourite wives. The story doesn't give much insight into their romantic lives and hence it is very difficult to judge on the basis of these things whom they preferred.

Apart from the fact that I think there is much evidence in the epic of Bheem loving and caring for Drau much more than the others.

That's what I am saying, the concept of the "One" is not something which can be observed in a polygamous relationship. What I am saying is that theories which are being given for psyche of men who had to share his wife, fit all of the Pandavas, no?

It's not that only Arjun had more than one wife or It was only Arjun who had to wait for 4 years to be with Draupadi?

All of the Pandavas shared her, all of them didn't do anything to protect her, all of them fought the war for her and killed people who insulted her, while reminding them of what they did to her

Author did not write that someone was someone's favorite wife, then why put down people who ship Arjun and Draupadi saying it was not in original Mahabharata and promote other couple, when none was in original Mahabharata 🙃 They shared sexual relationships with multiple women, why compare them?

Who wouldn't love a woman as strong and capable as Draupadi, who single handedly saved them when they were slaves of Duryodhana when it was their vow to protect her?

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

Chill. There's no need to get personal. I don't remember attacking you personally or analysing your behaviour so I would appreciate if you refrain from doing so too.

2ndly, I am not a shipper. Did I put in any theory as Arjun was madly in love with Subhadra & vice versa & they are some type of star crossed lover etc? I always maintained that by love I do not mean love as it is today. Among the many polygamous relations back then there was no scope for such love. But I believe it's very human nature to have favourites & by considering all things, I believe Subhadra was Arjun's. And I also asserted that it was my personal belief based on my analysis, nothing set in stone & you can very much have your different opinion. Are you implying that I can't have my own opinion or analyse incidents as I see it? Really?

3rdly, I do not mock other shippers & have mocked only Star Plus' representation of few parts of the Mahabharat. Mahabharat, as I know, is a vast territory. The original Mahabharat was only about 8000 slokas long. With time, there were many additions which led it to be as lengthy as 120000 slokas. From this, a critical edition was released by Bori & then KMG's Mahabharat is also considered a standard version. But apart from them there are many other versions which are popular and widely accepted. It's a quite tough task to know what's the original scripture says or analyse it as it was meant to be in the original scripture. If it was so easy, there wouldn't have been so many other versions. People are fascinated by it & have tried to retell the saga so many times. I frown upon when things go so haywire that they do not match even these alternative narrations either, which Star Plus's Mahabharat & few other tv serials did many times. I do not consider myself a know-it-all about Mahabharat as I have not read the original scripture & I am interested in knowing more or less everything related to it. My opinions & beliefs are based on the widely known & popular versions which I have read / heard about and I always maintain that one is free to disagree with it. Where did I mock others for having their own opinion?

I am sorry, I didn't intend to go personal, of course you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I just don't agree with it for the reasons I have stated before, there are many versions, how can one say which one is wrong?

You surely know more than I do as my information is from secondary sources, and your knowledge of it has helped me too, I am really sorry, if I was rude, I really didn't intend to do it

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Let's talk about men in general here. XD

Arjun knew that Draupadi was not alone his (Vyasa had already told them about Draupadi's past birth and that she would be married to 5 men). I believe Arjun was the one who went for the contest because only he would be able to win her. (Archery.)

Definitely. If the competition was mace fight, very probably Bheem would have entered the competition to win her. But the contest was archery & that's also quite a tough task to achieve. It is a popular belief (I don't know if it's true according to the original scripture) that Drupad wanted his daughter to marry Arjun after Arjun almost single handedly defeated & imprisoned him to pay his Guru Dakshina. So the task of Draupadi's swayamvar was set accordingly so that only Arjun can win it. Maybe this somehow gave birth to the idea that Draupadi was meant for Arjun only, which SP took to another level by showing Draupadi romancing Arjun's painting after hearing about him 😆

So here, no romance was involved. Also, talking about men, Arjun didn't seem upset when he had to "share" his wife. It is also said that all five brothers lusted for her and it was true. All including Arjun was smitten by Drau.

If it was all a pre-decided strategy he didn't really have any scope to be upset. I was just saying that...let's go by SP version & let's kid ourselves that he indeed felt something romantic for her, it was bound to die the moment the sharing thing came in place. It had no chance of surviving where he had to share her with his brothers. I don't think any man is that un-territorial regarding their wives.

If Arjun was so in love with Draupadi, he would not have gone around marrying other women. Yes, maybe all were not advanced by him, but he was definitely interested.

I am just trying to break this myth of Arjun having unparallel love for Draupadi and all other of his wives being ones he was not interested in.

Definitely.

Arjun saw Subhadra once, and he obviously was desirous of her and was smitten. He shows quite some eagerness to marry her (refer to quote above). He didn't ask for her hand by purpose yes, but Krishna only asked him if he wanted to marey when he REALIZED ARJUN WAS DESIROUS of her. So, no, Krishna wasn't only doing it for politics. He definitely went forward because he being onean saw the desires of another man. He was happy seeing it and wanted to use it in his favour where fhe politics come in.

Coming to cis men (considering Arjun one here) in general, any man would be more desirous and interested in a woman who was solely his as this also served his intellectual satisfaction. (IYKWIM) XD than a woman whom he himself won but yet needs to share with his brothers. Just some knowledge on men in general :P Pardon my "dhrishtata" :P

I totally second it. I can't believe Krishna would just throw his sister that uncaringly towards Arjun just for political alliance. If political alliance was all he sought he could have done with Yudhistir or Bheem too. More possibility with Yudhistir since he was the King. Also Arjun could decline & refer his other brothers if he himself was not interested. Krishna suggested that abduction to Arjun because Arjun was very much interested. This interest might be just attraction / lust if we judge by our modern mindset but things were different back then. And a marriage based on attraction / lust is probably a better one than one based on just politics. And after the marriage, between Draupadi & Subhadra, Subhadra is bound to have more of his affection since she was exclusively his. Otherwise he wouldn't really be a man 😆 And come on! Apart from the 1 year when he was cursed to be an eunuch, Arjun was very much a Man 😆

My reply in grey 😳

Originally posted by: NoraSM

I am sorry, I didn't intend to go personal, of course you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I just don't agree with it for the reasons I have stated before, there are many versions, how can one say which one is wrong?

You surely know more than I do as my information is from secondary sources, and your knowledge of it has helped me too, I am really sorry, if I was rude, I really didn't intend to do it

It's okay 😆 No need to be so sorry 😆 It happens when an argument goes on over & over. I felt it was heading towards this & hence in one of my earlier reply I stated that it was my opinion & you are free to have a different one & tried to discontinue...but it continued & things got a bit heated 😆😆 I am sorry too if my last reply was rude.

@Bold : That's surely not true. I am learning about the original story here too. And I agree that it was my misconception that Draupadi forbade the Pandavas to bring in their other wives. I had read it in so many places that I didn't know it was not included in the original story. I always thought it was a part of their wedding vows to Draupadi and it fits since Draupadi got upset when Arjun brought Subhadra with him. He was breaking the rule & Draupadi had the right to be upset about it. But I stand corrected that it was not in the original story and Draupadi was upset cause probably Yudhistir was right in his assessment.

Originally posted by: .Lonewalker.

It's okay 😆 No need to be so sorry 😆 It happens when an argument goes on over & over. I felt it was heading towards this & hence in one of my earlier reply I stated that it was my opinion & you are free to have a different one & tried to discontinue...but it continued & things got a bit heated 😆😆 I am sorry too if my last reply was rude.

@Bold : That's surely not true. I am learning about the original story here too. And I agree that it was my misconception that Draupadi forbade the Pandavas to bring in their other wives. I had read it in so many places that I didn't know it was not included in the original story. I always thought it was a part of their wedding vows to Draupadi and it fits since Draupadi got upset when Arjun brought Subhadra with him. He was breaking the rule & Draupadi had the right to be upset about it. But I stand corrected that it was not in the original story and Draupadi was upset cause probably Yudhistir was right in his assessment.

Another mistranslation. That scene actually says Panchali asked Arjuna to go to Subhadra out of love. The Sanskrit word used there is pranayaat. Love. Not jealousy.

I think people down the line decided Arjuna Panchali needed to be a ship and deliberately mistranslated it.

Yudhishitra might've said that (scholars dismiss it as later interpolation), but it was Arjuna who flared up at Yudhishtira about him sitting on Panchali's bed. Something clearly indicating jealousy and hardly suggesting Arjuna's feelings for her died with polyandry.

The"bed" episode aside, Panchali was the one woman for whom Arjuna sacrificed even his masculinity. Urvashi story was dismissed by BORI as interpolation. Arjuna could've disguised himself as anything else. He could've cleaned weapons for instance. The one and only reason he would've needed to pretend to be a woman was that he was needed inside the women's quarters. The only reason for that would be protection for Panchali. Not too many men will do so for any woman, even their wives. Bheem was another choice, but with his size, pretending to be trans would be tough. Plus, Arjuna had the dance and music capability which would've helped him gain a foothold that Bheem didn't have.

My point is not to say one couple was more in love than the other. I'm simply pointing out Arjuna exhibited his affection for Panchali more than any other woman in his life regardless of what later readers might assume about a cishet male's reaction.

So yeah, the favorite wife debate is pointless because each pairing has something to point to in support.

It is actually meaningless because none of the pairings were based on love.

The Brihannala disguise for me proves the awesome man Arjuna was. Actually, whether there was even any romance is immaterial after that point. Arjuna was simply great.