Messed Up Family! - Page 3

Originally posted by: Mitsu91

True but what bothers me the most is that 9 out of 10 times, such men go unpunished because the women around them decide to stay quiet and turn a blind eye. In this case, both Diya and Antara turned a blind eye to Maya's suffering which is more disgusting than MJ's deeds. And that's why I disagree with you that the family has no option. In the case of Hillary and Chelsea Clinton, they were both public figures and they would have been able to stand up for Monica but they chose not to. They had an option; they just didn't opt for it. I do agree that most Indian middle class women don't have that much power or support to stand up to their husbands/in-laws because a) they are conditioned to bow down to their pati-pameshwars and b) they don't have anywhere else to go to as their own family's doors close on their faces the minute they're married off.

In case of Tanushree and countless other actresses, yes! The perpetrators should be punished with the severity of their crimes but the law-enforcement is to be blamed there.

Bold-- the criminals are playing with the law and courts, seeking justice through dubious ways, with delaying tactics, either buying the law or threatening the legal/ police system with power! What about that Unnav case , who is responsible for that?

Please tell me the truth, how many of us along with Asha Devi waiting to see the end of those crooked cruel ruthless sinners who are still feasting on our hard-earned money .... by paying taxes, and getting help because of the loopholes in our law system? A criminal who did an adult crime left there because of his juvenile status? I feel even if it is done by an 8-year-old one he is eligible to reach gallows!

Yes, agree , law enforcement is to be blamed.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Well... well, a thought-provoking discussion is going on here with sharing the past cases and facts behind those heinous crimes. You covered a large number of famous crimes that were suppressed and thrown under the carpet to hide from the public gaze!

Bold-- the criminals are playing with the law and courts, seeking justice through dubious ways, with delaying tactics, either buying the law or threatening the legal/ police system with power! What about that Unnav case , who is responsible for that?

Please tell me the truth, how many of us along with Asha Devi waiting to see the end of those crooked cruel ruthless sinners who are still feasting on our hard-earned money .... by paying taxes, and getting help because of the loopholes in our law system? A criminal who did an adult crime left there because of his juvenile status? I feel even if it is done by an 8-year-old one he is eligible to reach gallows!

Yes, agree , law enforcement is to be blamed.

I heard juvenile has been shifted tto south india and working in a hotel there

Even hotel owner has no idea that hes nirbhaya juvenile criminal

What about safety of women in that south india city?

How can govt do such things, he was just 4 months short of 18 years.

In 1980s, 17 years may be juvenile but in 2010 17 years means 30-35 years age of 1980s because ppl are exposed to internett, TV, mobile etc.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

A brief post with the entire story👏! Excellent.🤗

Now the human weaknesses, the vulgar desires, the selfish goals are going to play a vital part in ruining the young writer Manvi's Singh's life! The actual story started now with facts and factual facets!

The entire family is criminals it seems except the kids Rudra and Rishi.

Unllimited power without curbs are always dangerous in humans

Imagine no traffic police in signal it will be free for all

same way human without powerful laws and fear of punishment is like a wild animal in forest (not all but some)

Human with powers over other humans life even more dangerous

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@spfan I hav read he had mentally harassed his first wife to the point even she did a suicide attempt.EMA would hav been last straw. Agreed a versalite actress of her times she might hav received multiple national awards if she had not married him. I think it's age. She was just 20 when she married him.

I guess if she was matured enough she would have never married that guy..

I have heard she did suicide attempt when she came to know about the affair and soon after that the second wife got married off to a NRI and that poor guy and his mother faced criticism because after the split she went around putting the entire blame on the guy and his family.. i never liked the second wife even when she was at her peak and the entire malayali audience were going ga ga over her..

Originally posted by: Mitsu91

Correct! Working in the US corporate world, I agree that there's strict policies protecting us but there's still a whole lot of harassment happening. Male coworkers sometimes pass on crude & inappropriate comments as a "joke", they try to cozy up to you or stare at you in a creepy way, and hell of a lot more. The good thing.. no the great thing is that 911 is on our speed-dials should things get out of hand.

That's what India needs. Stricter law-enforcement.

Mitsu91 while there are a lot more stricter policies in place in countries like the US, are they really effective? I work in the corporate world in Canada and there are policies here. Probably as strict as the US. But when I first entered the corporate world I was shocked at the type of behaviour that is given a pass.

My first corporate job ever, two of my male colleagues would joke over my head about their conquests for the night. Seriously?!! One of them made many sly remarks about how fat girls are more fun (and I'm overweight so I get the hint). But it would be brushed under the rug because it was just dirty talk. Just dirty talk. And I was a co-op student so I had no qualms reporting it to my co-op office. You know what they told me? You have to get used to it. Men will say that. And we need that company to return. There's a reason I don't speak highly of my undergrad university. Just because it was a MNC, I was supposed to let it be because it brought reputation to the university. My manager was actually way more helpful. She told the two men off and (I think) threatened that she would report it to HR if it continued. She became a good friend after that incident. Nonetheless that company never returned to the university because my manager said that she didn't like the quality of students at that university. My point though is that such matters are brushed under the rug because it doesn't really fall into "sexual harassment" or "use of power" or any of those other buckets.

Of course, not every company is like that and depending on the company you are in sometimes it is just fun dirty talk. Like in my second company, it was more of actual jokes over stupid things like olives and sticks.

Anyways, I digress. My point being that even with stricter laws, how likely is it that such things won't happen? These men control companies still. Women are added to boards and C-suite positions many times to bring "diversity" to the table. And if a woman is outspoken, liberal, aggressive, and has a mind of her own, she is either termed as bitchy or manly and laughed about. If it's a woman just entering the workforce, she can easily be fired. Heck I was because I back answered my boss all the time. And there are no rules or laws in place from stopping that because such managers will find a way to make it appear as a "with cause firing".

Laws are not the only thing that have to change. Mindsets have to change. Companies have to change. People have to change. Cultures have to change.

The #metoo movement was exactly that. It was to bring to light what has often been brushed under the rug as being fine is actually not fine. The problem is that in India it became a joke quickly because no one was really punished. Everyone was just investigated for a year or two and then let off scott-free due to "lack of evidence".

And that brings us back around to this show. It actually couldn't have come at a better time. While the family is messed-up, it brings to light exactly what is often brushed under the rug or how these men will often take advantage of vulnerable girls. It starts the conversation. Heck we're having the conversation.

Beyhadh 2 may be unconventional and have many pain points for people in general, but it does get a very important conversation going. Kudos to the CVs for that.

Originally posted by: Minionite

Mitsu91 while there are a lot more stricter policies in place in countries like the US, are they really effective? I work in the corporate world in Canada and there are policies here. Probably as strict as the US. But when I first entered the corporate world I was shocked at the type of behaviour that is given a pass.

My first corporate job ever, two of my male colleagues would joke over my head about their conquests for the night. Seriously?!! One of them made many sly remarks about how fat girls are more fun (and I'm overweight so I get the hint). But it would be brushed under the rug because it was just dirty talk. Just dirty talk. And I was a co-op student so I had no qualms reporting it to my co-op office. You know what they told me? You have to get used to it. Men will say that. And we need that company to return. There's a reason I don't speak highly of my undergrad university. Just because it was a MNC, I was supposed to let it be because it brought reputation to the university. My manager was actually way more helpful. She told the two men off and (I think) threatened that she would report it to HR if it continued. She became a good friend after that incident. Nonetheless that company never returned to the university because my manager said that she didn't like the quality of students at that university. My point though is that such matters are brushed under the rug because it doesn't really fall into "sexual harassment" or "use of power" or any of those other buckets.

Of course, not every company is like that and depending on the company you are in sometimes it is just fun dirty talk. Like in my second company, it was more of actual jokes over stupid things like olives and sticks.

Anyways, I digress. My point being that even with stricter laws, how likely is it that such things won't happen? These men control companies still. Women are added to boards and C-suite positions many times to bring "diversity" to the table. And if a woman is outspoken, liberal, aggressive, and has a mind of her own, she is either termed as bitchy or manly and laughed about. If it's a woman just entering the workforce, she can easily be fired. Heck I was because I back answered my boss all the time. And there are no rules or laws in place from stopping that because such managers will find a way to make it appear as a "with cause firing".

Laws are not the only thing that have to change. Mindsets have to change. Companies have to change. People have to change. Cultures have to change.

The #metoo movement was exactly that. It was to bring to light what has often been brushed under the rug as being fine is actually not fine. The problem is that in India it became a joke quickly because no one was really punished. Everyone was just investigated for a year or two and then let off scott-free due to "lack of evidence".

And that brings us back around to this show. It actually couldn't have come at a better time. While the family is messed-up, it brings to light exactly what is often brushed under the rug or how these men will often take advantage of vulnerable girls. It starts the conversation. Heck we're having the conversation.

Beyhadh 2 may be unconventional and have many pain points for people in general, but it does get a very important conversation going. Kudos to the CVs for that.

If in US you face so much comments and harassment imagine in india what girls may be facing actually

Because no proper laws, Hr will never support employees its pro management, no unions in private, no safety and social security etc it must be more worst

Originally posted by: myviewprem

If in US you face so much comments and harassment imagine in india what girls may be facing actually

Because no proper laws, Hr will never support employees its pro management, no unions in private, no safety and social security etc it must be more worst

Yes and that's why I said that if in Canada and the US, despite laws, there is so much stuff going on, then are laws really working?

Even in Canada, most private organizations do not have unions. I actually find unions worse because they do not always have the best for employees in mind. In MBA, we did a case on manufacturing unions and there was this documentary we watched that showed how the union cared about saving their own asses and jobs and because of that there were so many layoffs that an entire town sunk because that town revolved around one manufacturing plant that got shut down.

Since 5 minutes trying to post this , but it is preventing me to post . So posting it as part by part to detect what abusive language I used here, that too as an answer to our Mod's post !!😕

OK, got the point , I used the objectionable word p for vulgar video, so corrected.😊

@Minionite,

Laws are not the only thing that have to change. Mindsets have to change. Companies have to change. People have to change. Cultures have to change.

The #metoo movement was exactly that. It was to bring to light what has often been brushed under the rug as being fine is actually not fine. The problem is that in India it became a joke quickly because no one was really punished. Everyone was just investigated for a year or two and then let off scott-free due to "lack of evidence".

___________

Well said, a detailed analysis.

Among individual causes, Sociocultural and systemic causes of rape include male dominance and society/socialization are the main causes it seems.

Abuse against women is a universal occurrence, they are not restricted to any particular country, region, race, caste or class. They happen as much among the poor, rural, illiterates as among the rich, urban and the so-called elites.

Many illogical points from the male counterparts, like abusers, have all sorts of excuses and justifications for their acts. The reasons quoted are so diverse that it is nearly herculean to generalize. Crimes are committed by religious leaders, teachers, guardians, father, brother, relatives, neighbors, friends, acquaintances or even strangers. In this patriarchal and gendered world, such crime is a stigmatized crime wherein aspersions are cast on the victim instead of the accused????!!! This emboldens menfolk who bank heavily on a woman’s silence to preserve her honour. A miserable misconception, unfortunately. It is also very easy to put the blame on the woman for bringing out the beast in a man! Said by a seasoned politician! Really?? There is a justification that she should be punished for arousing him. Afterall if there were no women, who would men rape? So maybe it is the very existence of women that needs to be blamed for turning our holier-than-thou men into rapists and criminals!!! What logic!!

One important issue raised time and again is related to the size of our dress. Do the dresses provoke? Are women clad in sarees and burqas not harassed with the vulgar comments? Another oft-cited reason is makeup. The colleagues in the offices feel like they have every right to comment/ joke over his co-worker!! They at times alleges that women apply heavy makeup especially lipstick to lure men. Really?? How do you explain rape on minors, infants, old and aged women, women suffering from unsoundness of mind, women in a coma or those hospitalized with severe ailments?

Where is the place to hide for our safety??? What we have to do to punish these wolves in human clothes?? Why we have to bear with such oppression, suppression, being the mother of this mankind? Bearing these men as a tiny dot in us for a while to give life , to these criminals, what is the main cause behind these new misconceptions regarding women ???

A mother has to imbibe good qualities into her child's mind at an early age, a wife has to correct her husband's attitude whenever he drifts from the cultural arena, and the Govt has to curb the wild spread vulgar videos and demeaning women in social media.

A movement against women's oppression started recently as Me Too, and exposed many foxes to give warning to many hares to be aware of them in the future!!

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Since 5 minutes trying to post this , but it is preventing me to post . So posting it as part by part to detect what abusive language I used here, that too as an answer to our Mod's post !!😕

@Minionite,

Laws are not the only thing that have to change. Mindsets have to change. Companies have to change. People have to change. Cultures have to change.

The #metoo movement was exactly that. It was to bring to light what has often been brushed under the rug as being fine is actually not fine. The problem is that in India it became a joke quickly because no one was really punished. Everyone was just investigated for a year or two and then let off scott-free due to "lack of evidence".

___________

Well said, a detailed analysis.

Among individual causes, Sociocultural and systemic causes of rape include male dominance and society/socialization are the main causes it seems.

Abuse against women is a universal occurrence, they are not restricted to any particular country, region, race, caste or class. They happen as much among the poor, rural, illiterates as among the rich, urban and the so-called elites.

Many illogical points from the male counterparts, like abusers, have all sorts of excuses and justifications for their acts. The reasons quoted are so diverse that it is nearly herculean to generalize. Crimes are committed by religious leaders, teachers, guardians, father, brother, relatives, neighbors, friends, acquaintances or even strangers. In this patriarchal and gendered world, such crime is a stigmatized crime wherein aspersions are cast on the victim instead of the accused????!!! This emboldens menfolk who bank heavily on a woman’s silence to preserve her honour. A miserable misconception, unfortunately. It is also very easy to put the blame on the woman for bringing out the beast in a man! Said by a seasoned politician! Really?? There is a justification that she should be punished for arousing him. Afterall if there were no women, who would men rape? So maybe it is the very existence of women that needs to be blamed for turning our holier-than-thou men into rapists and criminals!!! What logic!!

One important issue raised time and again is related to the size of our dress. Do the dresses provoke? Are women clad in sarees and burqas not harassed with the vulgar comments? Another oft-cited reason is makeup. The colleagues in the offices feel like they have every right to comment/ joke over his co-worker!! They at times alleges that women apply heavy makeup especially lipstick to lure men. Really?? How do you explain rape on minors, infants, old and aged women, women suffering from unsoundness of mind, women in a coma or those hospitalized with severe ailments?

Where is the place to hide for our safety??? What we have to do to punish these wolves in human clothes?? Why we have to bear with such oppression, suppression, being the mother of this mankind? Bearing these men as a tiny dot in us for a while to give life , to these criminals, what is the main cause behind these new misconceptions regarding women ???

A mother has to imbibe good qualities into her child's mind at an early age, a wife has to correct her husband's attitude whenever he drifts from the cultural arena, and the Govt has to curb the wild spread vulgar videos and demeaning women in social media.

A movement against women's oppression started recently as Me Too, and exposed many foxes to give warning to many hares to be aware of them in the future!!

@ Red: That happens sometimes. It could be something as simple as a spelling error. Once it turned out that there was the letters fck in a URL I was trying to post. By the way, I'm Shreya.

Where is the place to hide for our safety??? What we have to do to punish these wolves in human clothes?? Why we have to bear with such oppression, suppression, being the mother of this mankind? Bearing these men as a tiny dot in us for a while to give life , to these criminals, what is the main cause behind these new misconceptions regarding women ???

But why should we be the ones to hide always? Why is it that there are curfews on us? Why is the mother accused of a bad upbringing when a man becomes a rapist, a murderer, an abusive husband? Is society not to blame equally? When a movie like Kabir Singh is declared a blockbuster, but movies like Article 15 or Section 375 go by unnoticed, why is only the family blamed? It goes back to society having to change as a whole. Even if a mother (because the blame falls wholely on her so she must be must be the only to imbibe her child with values) raises her child right, bad influences can affect him or her. But if a society as a whole also changes, then who is to be blamed apart from the criminal himself/herself?

A mother has to imbibe good qualities into her child's mind at an early age, a wife has to correct her husband's attitude whenever he drifts from the cultural arena, and the Govt has to curb the wild spread vulgar videos and demeaning women in social media.

Once again, the onus falls on the woman. Raising the child - woman's job. Fixing the husband - woman's job. Taking care of society's views - woman's job.

Why is it called izzat lutna? Because society has deemed that a woman's honour lies in her vagina. Seriously? What about a man's honour? It lies in his ability to protect his family and keep the women in his family safe. Again it basically lies in his ability to protect the women's vaginas. Why is so much importance given to a woman's vagina? This is an important question that needs to be explored and understood for anything worthwhile to happen.

The thing is even if the government manages to curb vulgar videos and these MMSes and what not, people will always find a way around it. There's a reason there's something called the Dark Net. I'm not saying society as a whole can completely get rid of this. Never. But it needs to be improved upon and reduced to the point where any common man walking the street is not watching the next MMS that gets leaked, but rather reporting it.

A movement against women's oppression started recently as Me Too, and exposed many foxes to give warning to many hares to be aware of them in the future!!

And yet it may have not been enough. The movement has started, but cannot end. Foxes need to continue to be exposed to the point that these foxes think twice and thrice before ever taking advantage of the hares and, in fact, even of each other. Because let's face it. Women face the brunt of it, but the LGBTQ community is not too far behind and even some straight men face it.

Originally posted by: Minionite

@ Red: That happens sometimes. It could be something as simple as a spelling error. Once it turned out that there was the letters fck in a URL I was trying to post. By the way, I'm Shreya.

Yes, very true, at times I have to struggle to post even ' good morning friends' , at first was scared am I using a vulgar word???🤪later realized it is IF's special way of teasing !!😊

_____________

Where is the place to hide for our safety??? What we have to do to punish these wolves in human clothes?? Why we have to bear with such oppression, suppression, being the mother of this mankind? Bearing these men as a tiny dot in us for a while to give life , to these criminals, what is the main cause behind these new misconceptions regarding women ???

But why should we be the ones to hide always? Why is it that there are curfews on us? Why is the mother accused of a bad upbringing when a man becomes a rapist, a murderer, an abusive husband? Is society not to blame equally? When a movie like Kabir Singh is declared a blockbuster, but movies like Article 15 or Section 375 go by unnoticed, why is only the family blamed? It goes back to society having to change as a whole. Even if a mother (because the blame falls wholely on her so she must be must be the only to imbibe her child with values) raises her child right, bad influences can affect him or her. But if a society as a whole also changes, then who is to be blamed apart from the criminal himself/herself?

Hmn.that question hit me like a thud ! 😊I questioned myself -- why I left myself there far behind from the forward-thinking?? A self-confessed fear maybe.... or age-old cultural backwardness. I was scared for a minute, then started thinking seriously ---

Is it better to run forward towards a beast? You question, you report, you react and you press the press to bring that issue into prominence, but still the crimes against women are happening -- increasing, how sad it is Shreya? 😭After Nirbhaya, I thought that there won't be any such heinous crimes happen, but further increased. When I argued with my father -- a High Court Judge, what police did in Disha case is correct, that is the right thing they have to do to nullify the weariness in police action and loopholes in the judiciary, those are the main causes of this increase in crimes against women. The reaction is always better than inaction. I am not talking about educated, highly placed women , I am talking about hiding regarding the kids at orphan homes, small kids who lured for chocolates😭 mentally retarded persons etc . The chicks have to be protected Shreya until they get wings. But I fully agree with your every point.

A mother has to imbibe good qualities into her child's mind at an early age, a wife has to correct her husband's attitude whenever he drifts from the cultural arena, and the Govt has to curb the wild spread vulgar videos and demeaning women in social media.

Once again, the onus falls on the woman. Raising the child - a woman's job. Fixing the husband - woman's job. Taking care of society's views - woman's job.

Have you heard what the mother of one of the criminals in Disha case to the media? She asked the spokesperson sitting in front of her hut that -- "the culprit who raped a 9 year old girl is roaming on the roads enjoying life, then why the police killed my son , who simply raped a grown-up woman???" At that time I argued with my father -- the judge has to bring that woman to the court to first slap her in front of her son , and then promulgate the verdict -- that must be hanging, not less than that! The Kid influenced by his mother in his formative years, so her words' impact will be immense on his psyche. Of course , the police have to warn her to go inside and sit there shut your door to the world, otherwise, the angry crowd will punish you for your cruel words. Who allowed the media to interview that criminal's mother to announce her opinion?? That is a different angle.

Why is it called izzat lutna? Because society has deemed that a woman's honour lies in her vagina. Seriously? What about a man's honour? It lies in his ability to protect his family and keep the women in his family safe. Again it basically lies in his ability to protect the women's vaginas. Why is so much importance given to a woman's vagina? This is an important question that needs to be explored and understood for anything worthwhile to happen.

These are a few quotes from the Vagina Monologues Shreya , see--

“When you rape, beat, maim, mutilate, burn, bury, and terrorize women, you destroy the essential life energy on the planet.”

“The heart is capable of sacrifice. So is the vagina. The heart is able to forgive and repair. It can change its shape to let us in. It can expand to let us out. So can the vagina. It can ache for us and stretch for us, die for us and bleed and bleed us into this difficult, wondrous world. So can the vagina."

“Slowly, it dawned on me that nothing was more important than stopping violence toward women—that the desecration of women indicated the failure of human beings to honor and protect life”

“If overthrowing some five thousand years of patriarchy seems like a big order, just focus on celebrating each self-respect step along the way”

By insulting Draupadi the Kaurava clan satisfied their ego because she was considered as Pandavas honour! A woman was tormented because of a male's perspective, put her at stake like a lifeless thing!

For owning Helen, the battle of Troy was fought! No one bothered about her likes and dislikes! Many instances in past history, still rewriting such stories on new pages even now!

You talked about MBA lessons, in India , in IIMS the first sentence of the prime MBA book is " the first best manager in this world is your mother , respect her learn from her , how to be a multitasker"

A woman's role was praised, honored, and asked for her participation in every field, still the man is misguided by his male ego that he is the higher authority over his wife and daughter. How sad it is ! When...when this world realise our worth??

The thing is even if the government manages to curb vulgar videos and these MMSes and what not, people will always find a way around it. There's a reason there's something called the Dark Net. I'm not saying society as a whole can completely get rid of this. Never. But it needs to be improved upon and reduced to the point where any common man walking the street is not watching the next MMS that gets leaked, but rather reporting it.

Very true.But those are the main culprits in this aspect I feel.

A movement against women's oppression started recently as Me Too, and exposed many foxes to give warning to many hares to be aware of them in the future!!

And yet it may have not been enough. The movement has started, but cannot end. Foxes need to continue to be exposed to the point that these foxes think twice and thrice before ever taking advantage of the hares and, in fact, even of each other. Because let's face it. Women face the brunt of it, but the LGBTQ community is not too far behind and even some straight men face it.

Happy to interact with you and learn a few things from you Shreya.