Why a woman was always blamed 4 a man's failure

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Posted: 7 years ago

#31

@Shyamala Aunty,your points about Stalin,Mao and Hitler were spot on👏These people cannot even be compared to Alexander.

Everything said and done Alexander was not a bad guy who ill treated and tortured his own people at least.Let's be happy by imagining that Alexander went to heaven whereas the other three are still rotting in hell😉

Edited by LawlessLawyer - 7 years ago

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luckySnow

@luckySnow

Dazzler

Posted: 7 years ago

#32

Originally posted by: LawlessLawyer
Oh yeah Aristotle ko bhi bhaga diya😆
Lagta hai Alexander bechara pyaar main deewaana hogaya tha🤣

I remember that old movie Sikandar which had Prithviraj Kapoor.Wahan pe pehle scene main hi Aristotle ne aake Alexander ko bol diya ki kisi bhi ladki ke chakkar main mat padna😆😉

Aristotle to macedonia see hi bhaag gaya tha😆 ironically only person who liked Roxana was olympia

Edited by luckySnow - 7 years ago

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#33

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9
I feel pity on those person's thinking who blame a woman 4 a man's failure
People say kaise ek aurat nai Mahabharat karva di

People blame mostly Draupadi 4 Mahabharat war but truth is Draupadi's insult was last nail 2 d coffin, mahabharat happened coz many reasons but blame on comes on Draupadi

People remember Prithviraj's valour but they blame sanyogita 4 his failure, what wrong this sanyogita did , it was Prithviraj foolishness 4 forgiving MD. Gori again & again, sanyogita dint made Prithviraj forgave Gori

Alexander's people hated roxxane why coz Alex started favouring her relatives , spending most of d time with her , she was not royal . Alexander was not a foolish man who can came in anyone's words so easily, he was a very gud politician & general, then why 2 blame roxxane 4 alexander's decisions. Roxxane dint forced alexander 2 marry her or favour her relatives. Alexander had a very strong control on himself in terms of women, it was not like he fall 4 every beautiful women, roxxane definately had something in her which made alex marry her.
People say roxxane killed stateira but Can anyone say if opportunity given 2 stateira she would had not harmed roxxane & her child. Cassandra also did same 2 Olympias & roxxane 4 power.

In every era women has 2 be blamed 4 d decisions taken by men's of that era.

I dop not think draupadi was responsible for Mahabharat. It was Shakuni and Dhuryodhana who was responsible for Mahabharat. They both tried killing pandavas many times, even refused to give 5 villages to rule.

Sanyogita was not responsible for Prthviraj's defeats. It was Prithvi and jaichand indirectly. Prithviraj should not have forgiven Gori and killed him after war defeat. Anyways Gori ran off from field only so not Prithvis fault too.

But in this serial Bhamini is very much at fault. He blindly trusts all, his brother, his younger son etc. Which king will last if he behaves so, a king should be machivellian and street smart not dumb and stupid like Bhamini.

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#34

Alexander and Roxanne and Barsine

Alexander in serial comes across as a sadist person. He kills his father, ok for self defense else Philips may have killed him and Olympia. But why kill Cleopatra's baby so cruelly? His sadist trait comes from Olympia. The way he throws Darius head in front of his family also was gross and he calls Barsine as Porus lover. Hes out of his mind.

Roxanne or Rukasana i read was an Afghan lady. Afghanistan for major part till 17-18th century was part of united India and not a seperate nation. So indirectly Roxanne is an Indian(from Afghan province). She killed Alex wives and their kids or pregnant wives. Was that self defense may be? If she had not killed may be they would kill her. But Barsine in serial doesw not look like a killer and ruthless lady. I heard Darius mother considered Alexander as own son, would they kill his wife and child the heir.

Roxanne is like Nur Jahan. Once she married Alexander she ensured all her family and relatives took charge of administration and became powerful. The Macedonians hated her and her relatives. It was obivous that if Alexander died she and her children would be killed. She had also killed Alexanders other wife and kids, so may be Macedonian generals were scared that she may become very powerful an non Macedonian ruling Greece would not be fine for them. Like how Mughal court hated Nur Jahan and her family members and just tolerated them for Emperor Jehangir sake, same was Roxanne. Anyways as soon as Alexander died Roxanne killed others and his heirs were all finished and no one left. Only his sisters son left in family none of his. Was this not really because of Roxannes cruelty that none of his heir survived? Like Nur Jahan started disintegration of mughal empire so did Roxanned, she destroyed Alexanders heirs.

Alexander is equally to be blamed, like Jehangir he had fallen(truly fallen) in love. He went blind in her love may be. He brought about his empires destruction by his blind love to Roxanne and her family.

One interesting fact in history was Emperor Akbars sister was married to Alexanders relative's son. Was it Roxanne family or Barsine family? No idea

Edited by myviewprem - 7 years ago

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#35

Originally posted by: sashashyam
I am glad I don't have to do the Chanakya note, my dear Surbhi, though I would have enjoyed summarising it all for you. I am being so ill disciplined as it is!😆

I must tell you, however, that your summing up of all that you have learnt about him is truly admirable. Very crisp and neat!

It is not at all sure how he died. One version is that he was doing sadhana on a mound, the lower parts of which were full of cow dung. One of his enemies - and he must have had any number of them- set fire to the dung heap.As Chanakya was in a state of deep meditation, he did not realise this till it was too late for him to do anything about it.

If I know anything about him, he would never have regretted anything he did. He was totally detached, and he did what he did for a greater goal, nishkaama karma. Once the goal was realised, he retreated to his ashram.

One last point, for I can never stop analysing - it comes of 38 years as a diplomat doing poltiical analyses day in and day out.😉 The Persians would surely have killed Roxanne the first chance they got, so as to get primacy for Barsine and the child she was supposed to be expecting. Preventive measures, so to speak. They would not have waited for Roxanne to kill Barsine. But as things turned out, she struck first.

As for karma coming back to haunt people in this life itself, Stalin and Mao killed millions of their own countrymen in the Soviet Gulag and in the 1959 Great Leap Forward and the 1969 Cultural Revolution movements in China, far , far more than Alexander ever killed. Yet both of them died comfortably in their beds! Hitler comfortably shot himself in his underground bunker in Berlin as the Allied troops were closing in on him in the summer of 1945. Poor Alexander, however , suffered such agony before he died. See the parapaksh on the part of niyati?

Shyamala Aunty

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sashashyam

@sashashyam

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#36

My dear Prem,

It is good to see you again.

I was citing not so much the families of the great mass murderers - Stalin, Hitler, Mao and the rest - as the main perpetrators themselves. Then and now, they mostly escaped.

What you have noted regarding medieval war traditions was true. Ultimately, it was all dog eat dog, kill or be killed.

By the way, you have mentioned in the other post that the Emperor Akbars sister was married to Alexanders relative's son. Which sister was this, and what kind of relative of Alexander's? There must have been at least 80-90 generations between the two, how did they keep track of the Alexander connection.

Another point, I think Bactria was bordering modern Afghanistan, not part of it. So I don't think Roxanne was Indian. In any case, trust the CVs not to miss the Roxanne-Puru rakhi tying ceremony when Alexander comes to India, which must, since they have cashiered the battle of Gaugamela, one of Alexander's most brilliant tactical victories, be coming up soon.

Shyamala Aunty

Originally posted by: myviewprem
@bold.

Aunty

Majority great killers die a peacful death and their families all live happily atleast in 20-21st century. Look at Stalin, Mao, Hitler etc like you said. Even Gaddafi, Osama Bin Laden, Pol pot, saddam Hussein family(atleast girls) all living in luxury after their death. Because in 21st century we do not tend to put blame of a humans grave sins on his family members.

But it was not the case in BC. People were terrified of soutens and their kids may be. Like that mughals would kill male competitors but leave the females alive. Even in rajputhana the males would kill, their family especially girls could live after war defeat or after killing king etc. So even in 15th century family was allowed to live by enemy especially girls.

Originally posted by: sashashyam
I am glad I don't have to do the Chanakya note, my dear Surbhi, though I would have enjoyed summarising it all for you. I am being so ill disciplined as it is!😆

I must tell you, however, that your summing up of all that you have learnt about him is truly admirable. Very crisp and neat!

It is not at all sure how he died. One version is that he was doing sadhana on a mound, the lower parts of which were full of cow dung. One of his enemies - and he must have had any number of them- set fire to the dung heap.As Chanakya was in a state of deep meditation, he did not realise this till it was too late for him to do anything about it.

If I know anything about him, he would never have regretted anything he did. He was totally detached, and he did what he did for a greater goal, nishkaama karma. Once the goal was realised, he retreated to his ashram.

One last point, for I can never stop analysing - it comes of 38 years as a diplomat doing poltiical analyses day in and day out.😉 The Persians would surely have killed Roxanne the first chance they got, so as to get primacy for Barsine and the child she was supposed to be expecting. Preventive measures, so to speak. They would not have waited for Roxanne to kill Barsine. But as things turned out, she struck first.

As for karma coming back to haunt people in this life itself, Stalin and Mao killed millions of their own countrymen in the Soviet Gulag and in the 1959 Great Leap Forward and the 1969 Cultural Revolution movements in China, far , far more than Alexander ever killed. Yet both of them died comfortably in their beds! Hitler comfortably shot himself in his underground bunker in Berlin as the Allied troops were closing in on him in the summer of 1945. Poor Alexander, however , suffered such agony before he died. See the parapaksh on the part of niyati?

Shyamala Aunty

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inlieu

@inlieu

Stunner

+ 2

Posted: 7 years ago

#37

@deepikagupta, sorry it's been a crazy day so couldn't respond sooner.

Here I will refer to what Alexander said along the lines of:

People find excuses for their failings. They always blame things other than themselves for their failures.

Women were often treated as second-class citizens and thought of as the "weaker" sex. So why not blame them? They couldn't usually retaliate or stand up for themselves. Characters like Olympias and Roxanne were not common. Rani Laxmibai was not common!

If people accuse a woman of having too much influence on a man, then it can be easily argued that a strong, confident man has his own mind, whereas a spineless one does not. The amount of importance a man gives to a woman in his life is up to him, whatever her role may be: mother, sister, wife, daughter. The way he sees women being treated as he grows up will influence how he behaves as he becomes un adult.

Laachi would never be so strong and confident if she didn't have Dasyu rani as her role model but her brother did not turn out to be anything like this, despite the fact that their father has such a strong life partner and co-ruler. Ambhikumar would not have been able to listen to his conscience against the negative teachings of his father if it weren't for the perspective his mother gave him on life.

Puru grew up seeing strong women around him in Dasyulok, so when he went to Paurav Rashtra and saw the mothers not eating with the men in the royal famiy, he objected to it. Even though Anusuya is a strong person, she never raised this point herself and neither did Kadika. There was no restriction in PR about women eating at the "table" at the same time, but it was never part of their norms. Puru grew up seeing otherwise so for him it was abnormal. Also, he trusts Lacchi to support and protect him, not because they are lovers, but because he believes in her strength. He was very pleased when she volunteered to go to Faras with him. If Laachi and he set out to do something, he doesn't blame his failures on her.

The humiliation of Draupadi was the nail in the coffin. There was too much evil around already and when this incident happened it showed that the paap ka ghada had really begun to overflow. Krishna' guidance, especially to Arjun, was largely about dharma vs adharma.

Anusuya said the same thing to Shivdutt today, that a man who resorts to mistreating women to prove his manhood is nothing but a coward. He hides his deficiencies and lack of self-esteem by exercising power over "weaker" beings. Shivdutt was just disgusting, especially when he went as far as saying women who are not from Paurav Rashtra don't deserve to be respected. What kind of mentality is that? All women have the right to be given respect no matter where they are from and what their social status might be. He keeps blaming her for the problems between Bamni and him, even though he's the rotten apple spoiling everything else, including his nephew. Horrible! 😡

Alexander would never have Adamantium nerves if it weren't for the way Olympias brought him up and would not have been such a successful commander. Also, when Alexander conquered Faras he didn't abuse the women, and showed a lot of respect to Queen Ada and Darius' family, despite what Darius did. This is definitely due to his upbringing and inherent respect for women. He became the ruler of the biggest empire in the world and could have anything he wanted at any time but he did not cross his limits.

Alexander's empire would have "collapsed" eventually anyway, with or without Roxanne. He was expanding and conquering too fast, without investing enough in administration and resting long enough in one place to bring stability. He did not name an official heir either. The generals who were under his command resorted to in-fighting the moment he had breathed his last, while his body was still warm on his deathbed. Roxanne wasn't even involved in the murderous plots that his generals made against each other. She managed to keep her son and herself safe for a few years, but eventually they were executed as well.

Edited by inlieu - 7 years ago

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myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#38

Originally posted by: sashashyam
My dear Prem,

It is good to see you again.

I was citing not so much the families of the great mass murderers - Stalin, Hitler, Mao and the rest - as the main perpetrators themselves. Then and now, they mostly escaped.

What you have noted regarding medieval war traditions was true. Ultimately, it was all dog eat dog, kill or be killed.

By the way, you have mentioned in the other post that the Emperor Akbars sister was married to Alexanders relative's son. Which sister was this, and what kind of relative of Alexander's? There must have been at least 80-90 generations between the two, how did they keep track of the Alexander connection.

Another point, I think Bactria was bordering modern Afghanistan, not part of it. So I don't think Roxanne was Indian. In any case, trust the CVs not to miss the Roxanne-Puru rakhi tying ceremony when Alexander comes to India, which must, since they have cashiered the battle of Gaugamela, one of Alexander's most brilliant tactical victories, be coming up soon.

Shyamala Aunty