Bigg Boss 19: Daily Discussion Thread - 17th Oct 2025
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Abhay, here I go on Akbar regarding couple of points you had made.
- Chittor massacre a blot - can we write off saying its a blot? Or can it be justified that he is a devil to one who opposes him? If one does not lay prostrate at his feet, then he is finished??? And killing of 30000 innocents and make a tower of their heads - all this because they did not offer their selves to him? I could never ignore this.
- Akbar was transformed later- the more I think I am beginning to be suspicious. Talking of the same Chittor massacre, this happened after the transformation, should I say 'so to say'? I find these two contradictory.
So I am left wondering about the intent behind all these - was it superficial or to be more precise, convenient? An intelligent king knows well that he needs his subjects support. He would have seen a classic example of this in the case if Maharana. To run such a big empire, it will only make sense to get everyone into the fold. I am not criticising about his religious tolerance and also how he dared to oppose the moulvis (though i feel he was powerful king and could twist things in his favour). But I am left to wonder if there was any selfishness in the veil of transformation? Pilgrimage tax - if my understanding is right, he revoked, then again enforced and later again withdrew. Why? If he 'believed' in it, where was the confusion?
Sorry, if I am being too open here. But this is something I am seeking an answer till date. I find his behaviour contradictory and not justifiable. Can someone please clarify?
Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
Thanks for the link Abhay. Great discussions going on. Here i am copy pasting what i posted in the other thread.
Thanks for sharing the articles. Such narrow minded thinking is pathetic.Our country has given birth to many precious men and women, rulers who have exhibited heroism and exceptional achievements. Chandragupta Maurya , Harshavardhana, Maharana Pratap, Chand Bibi, Chatrapati Shivaji, Raja RajaChola,Vikramaditya, PrithviRaj Chauhan, Rana Sanga and many more. Each of them were special and heroic in their own way.
But Ashoka and Akbar are accorded the suffix 'Great' due to the scale of their achievements and due to their humility and humanity inspite of such huge achievements. And deservedly so.The world has seen innumerable scientists whose contributions to science has been special and valuble. But why is Einstein considered the greatest of them all ?What makes Tulsidas the greatest among Hindi poets? Aren't others' works valuble?What makes Amitabh's voice the most sought after in India? Why is M.S. Subbulakshmi considered the best Carnatic Singer? Why is the Mona Lisa the most famous painting? Why is Don Bradman and Sachin's cricket hailed? Aren't other's cricket good enough? What makes Shakespeare's plays superior to the rest. What makes Mahatma Gandhi the Father of the nation? Aren't other's patriotism and sacrifice great?Not that others are not good, but they are extra good, so good that they have beome symbolic and iconic.Ashoka and Akbar are the greatest among great rulers and warriors of India. Two greatest kings who have ruled India and are called 'The Great'.And my response to your response.Completely agree that noone can be called greatest. But some stand out among the greats, stand taller because of the scale and magnitude of their achievements.Rani Lakshmi Bai , Bhagat Singh and many other freedom fighters are great in their own ways. But what makes Gadhiji stand out among them all?Gadhiji certaintly has his admirers and critics. He has his positives and many shortcomings and partialities too. But surely it is undeniable that he gave a proper direction to the freedom struggle without which not all the rebellions and sacrifices of all the fighters would have yielded the results.He had the charisma to pull the common man and unite them in his efforts. He understood the reason why England wished to retain India as a colony. They found it profitable. It provided a big market for the British industries. By the Swadeshi movement he shattered the market. By his non cooperation movement he made India too expensive to handle. That is why the British left. NOT due to any act of bravery by anyone which they could have supressed easily with their supreme weaponry.Whatever be his personal pluses and negatives, it is to his credit that he understood the core of the problem, the method to solve it, and mobilise the huge public to achieve his plan. That is why he is called the Father of the nation.Again this is not a question of being greatest, but greater among the greats.
Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
KaanaSurely you are watching CAS. When Varahamihir is captured and he refuses to divulge the truth, Chanakya asks that he be deprived of sleep for days. Give him anything but don't allow him to sleep. He will blabber all answers.Now is that being cruel? Inhuman? Does it befit a Brahman scholar?It is not easy to be at the very top and be perfect.You have to take hard decisions with the larger picture in mind.I am not justifying Chittor. No way. But when political decisions are made for the greater good the intent and uchithness and anuchithness cannot be always questioned.Maybe Akbar abolished Jaziya as a political strategy. May be he formed friendships to stabilise himself. Even if it was selfishness and part of his plan it is undeniable that his rule saw peace and prosperity and developed brotherhood feelings among his diverse subjects. His rule was called 'RamRajya'. That wipes out the necessity to question the intent.
Sands, nice seeing you here. I was missing you so much on an interesting topic posted by Abhay here. Great to see your response and great points indeed, as always 😊I am not seeing CAS anymore. The Helena and all villains with one bechara Chanakya puhed me out successfully. If its any interesting now, will watch it.Sands, we both have an open mind and so I will not hestiate to discuss openly with you like with Abhay. As I do not wish to get into arguments which go in the mode of proving oneself right. So, you are a comfort zone for me and here are my thoughts.Firstly, I see Akbar as great for certain set of qualities, no doubt. I admire him as a great strategist especially. For that matter, he was great to my mother and me (still very great to my mom), till the time I read through the Chittor masaacre details when I started questioning myself.I am only going by the intent here. I cannot specifically comment on the Varahamihira part, but I share my views in general. Chanakya had a good intent for which the trurth was imperative. So, getting the truth out of the person, who is uncooperative and crucial to achieve a lofty goal, somehow is fine, as the goal is superior here. Why, we see so many instances in Mahabharata where Lord Krishna had to do chal - but all for the singl lofty goal of establishing dharma.In the case of Akbar, I am fine with him even for his imperialism. It is the king's ways and as Abhay raids etc are general ways those days. The point is Akbar is noted as great not for the size of his kingdon, as Samudragupta had a bigger land mass under him, but for his religious tolerance and praja friendly & well wisher king. His reforms made him tall and apart from others, that too in a day when Moulvis and the lot had their importance and any religion, be it Hinduism or Islam were deep rooted for religious practices. So braving all these is a fet by itself!However, if Akbar is so noble as depicted, then he would not have allowed the massacre even by his soldiers, let alone ordering one. He might have killed Pratap, if e had captured, because having him alive would be a wrong decision. But killing 30,000 people and making a tower - how could this ever be justified in the case of noble king? This only makes me rethink and conclude, yes, he has certain great qualities, but the basic humaness seem to be lost in him. Also, the intent of all those reforms also now seem as a means to have a Hindu majority country well under his control. Ruling their land, it will only be wise to have their buy in too. And we all know Akbar as a pastmaster when it comes to strategies. This is my rational behind this conclusion w.r.t. to calling him noble or a great king on the grounds stated. As both these qualities could not coexist in my humble view, but they could be co-operated.Going back to Abhay's post that Chittor massacre is the ony blot in his life - my response was that it was not a blot that could be ignored.Regarding RamaRajya, the fact of 30000 killing itself is a pointer that it could not have been a Ramarajya. Either it was stated so by his bhakt or one who does not understand the meaning of Ramarajya. Refering to goverance as Ramarjya seem a facny these days. We see so many politicians also refering to regimes like that. Only justice prevailed then, and his praja before Him as Sri Rama's ways. I feel it an insult to Lord Rama when such rajyas are called as Rama Rajya.
Originally posted by: Sandhya.A
<font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Kaana</font><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">i am sure that you are open to alternate views. Here too i am not justifying Chittor. But weighing it down with the rest of Akbar.</font><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Either he lost his control in a moment of madness. Yudhishtir did in dhyuthkreeda. So did Karna when he called Draupadi a veshya. Akbar let off steam due to the very testing and terrific resistance the brave chaps put up. He set a gruesome example so that no one else will dare to repeat such resistance.</font><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">With Chanakya too it is not all about noble intent at every point or decision. His only noble intent was safety of the empire. How je tricked Rakshasa to win is well known. There is always an element of ruthlessness in Chanakya's approach. A clinical perception and planned execution. An Empire cannot be run on nobility alone.</font><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Chittor was probably Akbar's ruthlessness to achieve his goal- unified India and a stable empire. The number 30000 is startling indeed. But this is nothing compared to the loss of lives due to constant wars by the little kings then and the loss of money in the process. Lack of a good governance and instability and constant wars was literally looting the masses. There was peace and prosperity in Akbar's rule.</font><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">One Chittor doesn't take away the achievements even if planned or as a strategy. When the larger picture is clear and fine blots here and there hardly matter. Well, my POV.</font>